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Genelec GLM software and the 7350A Subwoofer

james57

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no the GLM would be used to setup the hpf and room correction for the pair of 8361 and the then disconnect. no need after that
 

lvy

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can't you just setup the system as a 2.0 and put a HPF on the 8361, thought I saw that somewhere ?
yes this is possible
should be
1. calibrate the 8361 with GLM, saved the calibration into 8361
2. use the 8361 with hpf (you still need a receiver / dac to do the hpf, GLM calibration doesn't do the HPF, it is the SAM subwoofer which does the HPF)
 
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lvy

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no the GLM would be used to setup the hpf and room correction for the pair of 8361 and the then disconnect. no need after that
you don't have the options to hpf in GLM with a pair of 8361 only
you need a SAM subwoofer to enable the hpf in GLM

sorry to confuse, all these I mean using the 8361 in digital with GLM
 

james57

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you don't have the options to hpf in GLM with a pair of 8361 only
you need a SAM subwoofer to enable the hpf in GLM
ahh thanks, ok but I can still use the oppo for xover duty, the only thing that I am getting concerned about is the AD delay with the 8361 as I am using this for av duties and sync may be an issue.
 

lvy

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Even though there's no HPF without a SAM subwoofer but I think u can hack it using the Sound Character Profiler or use the extra filters in calibration (not sure whether this is the same result with a proper HPF)
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Lol, I think for me this is too much to tinker.
Use a proper HPF or GLM subwoofer would be better.
 
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Tangband

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Hi Tangband, thanks for the comments
As mentionned I am not prepared to get rid of my existing e15 so sam subs are not an option and since it lives in the A world I can either stay there of find an oppo alternate that would do A and D and vol ctrl, I am not sure there are many affordable options but would consider.
The oppo analogue ctrl appears to be ok, I don't have numbers but it seems to do the job now. I am planning a 2.1 system nothing more as I have the e15.
The source and volumecontrol at preamp level sets the limit of the soundquality you can get. Everything counts.

A good source and preamp will murder a worse sounding source and pre , even If the loudspeakers in the later case are the best in the world, ie the Genelec 8361. We are talking very good gear here, so Im not sure the oppo 105 is good enough. Its lack of digital output with volumeregulation seems to be the biggest drawback.

Feeding a pair of Genelec 8361 with analog input is maybe not better than a digitally connected Kef ls60 ? The future is all-digital and can bring a real gain in soundquality.

You also need to have perfect phase in the crossover region and the correct slopes for the crossovers and you need both LP and HP filtering for your speakers. A receiver crossover is far from good enough, so you need a good separate dsp crossover with digital inputs for the rythmik subwoofer , and need to do a lot of measurements to.

A single subwoofer is never , I repeat never a solution where everything gets 100% better on all counts. You need two stereo subwoofers to gain completely in sound quality.
Maybe two e15 ? ,- but you still need a digital crossover with digital inputs for the subs to gain the same quality as two 7360 with digital inputs.

At this level of discussions with very, very good speakers its good to throw away everything one have read or learn in forums or magazines , and listen for yourself. I would never buy a Rythmik sub or a 8361 without any extended listening.
 
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james57

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The source and volumecontrol at preamp level sets the limit of the soundquality you can get. Everything counts.

A good source and preamp will murder a worse sounding source and pre , even If the loudspeakers in the later case are the best in the world. We are talking very good gear here, so Im not sure the oppo 105 is good enough. Its lack of digital output with volumeregulation seems to be the biggest drawback.

Feeding a pair of Genelec 8361 with analog input is maybe not better than a digitally connected Kef ls60 ? The future is all-digital and can bring a real gain in soundquality.

You also need to have perfect phase in the crossover region and the correct slopes for the crossovers and you need both LP and HP filtering for your speakers. A receiver crossover is far from good enough, so you need a good separate dsp crossover with digital inputs for the rythmik subwoofer , and need to do a lot of measurements to.

A single subwoofer is never , I repeat never a solution where everything gets 100% better on all counts. You need two stereo subwoofers to gain completely in sound quality.
Maybe two e15 ? ,- but you still need a digital crossover with digital inputs for the subs to gain the same quality as two 7360 with digital inputs.
any idea for digital and analogue out with vol ctrl and dsp (this is the weak point of the entire GLM path), not sure minidsp has a model. I kindly disagree for the double sub, my room is 2.5m by 3 with an open floor my current e15 fills the space pretty well. The other route is to stay full A and get a pair of kh 420 with a minidsp flex, thats the other option I am assessing but more expensive.
 

Tangband

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any idea for digital and analogue out with vol ctrl, not sure minidsp has a model. I kindly disagree for the double sub, my room is 2.5m by 3 with an open floor my current e15 fills the space pretty well. The other route is to stay full A and get a pair of kh 420 with a minidsp flex, thats the other option I am assessing but more expensive.
A laptop computer with Apple lossless or TIDAL and a good DDC with digital out is probably the cheapest option for a really good sound and digital volume regulation thats truly 24 bit resolution with dithering.

You can ofcourse at first buy two 8361 speakers and go analog - I doubt that you will need the Rythmik sub in that small space.
 

james57

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A laptop computer with Apple lossless or TIDAL and a good DDC with digital out is probably the cheapest option for a really good sound and digital volume regulation thats truly 24 bit resolution with dithering.

You can ofcourse at first buy two 8361 speakers and go analog - I doubt that you will need the Rythmik sub in that small space.
don't want to hijack this thread but you really got me intrigued. My main feed is either the earc from my oled panel or alternatively the optical out, how would you integrate this with a passive cooling pc or apple ?? For music I agree that the rythmik sub is rarely in use but for movies there is a significant difference.
 

Tangband

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any idea for digital and analogue out with vol ctrl and dsp (this is the weak point of the entire GLM path), not sure minidsp has a model. I kindly disagree for the double sub, my room is 2.5m by 3 with an open floor my current e15 fills the space pretty well. The other route is to stay full A and get a pair of kh 420 with a minidsp flex, thats the other option I am assessing but more expensive.
Not sure what you mean with ” weak point” regarding the 64 bit resolution GLM correction .

With kh420 you could go all analog ofcourse , but you still need a really good active crossover, both LP and HP - it will not be better or cheaper than a dsp crossover with digital inputs, such as SAM .
 

Tangband

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don't want to hijack this thread but you really got me intrigued. My main feed is either the earc from my oled panel or alternatively the optical out, how would you integrate this with a passive cooling pc or apple ?? For music I agree that the rythmik sub is rarely in use but for movies there is a significant difference.
For really good sound - get a good source . TIDAL is better sounding than any earc from a tv. But maybe you want a good sound when watching television , and this is more in use than listening to 2 channel music ? Its your money but I would say a pair of 8361 is overkill for this use - maybe a Kef ls60 is a more practical solution ?
You need a good source and a good preamp if you want really good sound.
 

james57

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Not sure what you mean with ” weak point” regarding the 64 bit resolution GLM correction .

With kh420 you could go all analog ofcourse , but you still need a really good active crossover, both LP and HP - it will not be better or cheaper than a dsp crossover with digital inputs, such as SAM .
My comment about GLM's week point is about the difficulty of integrating a non genelec sub, I allready ave one and don't want to get rid of it others just want non Genelec subs, its not about the product itelf. If I go the kh420 route I would most likely also get a minidsp flex and get the dsp-dirac for the full integration
 

Tangband

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My comment about GLM's week point is about the difficulty of integrating a non genelec sub, I allready ave one and don't want to get rid of it others just want non Genelec subs, its not about the product itelf. If I go the kh420 route I would most likely also get a minidsp flex and get the dsp-dirac for the full integration
Thats true .
But you have to remember that most analog active subs have substandard LP and HP crossovers , so it all depends.
A Minidsp flex with digital crossover and dirac and a good analog volume control is maybe the way to go , together with kh420. But you need to do the subintegration with your own measurements.
 
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james57

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For really good sound - get a good source . TIDAL is better sounding than any earc from a tv. But maybe you want a good sound when watching television , and this is more in use than listening to 2 channel music ? Its your money but I would say a pair of 8361 is overkill for this use - maybe a Kef ls60 is a more practical solution ?
You need a good source and a good preamp if you want really good sound.
yes I am trying to get the swiss knife version, I apologize I should have statted my use more clearly. My main feed is a tv to run a 2.1 setup, I currently have an old pair of b&W 804 matrix but want to also enjoy 2 channel music. Everything is routed to my oppo 105 that is a dac-preamp and also xover. For music I usually use a HD thats goes straight to my oppo and act as a streamer.
 

Tangband

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yes I am trying to get the swiss knife version, I apologize I should have statted my use more clearly. My main feed is a tv to run a 2.1 setup, I currently have an old pair of b&W 804 matrix but want to also enjoy 2 channel music. Everything is routed to my oppo 105 that is a dac-preamp and also xover. For music I usually use a HD thats goes straight to my oppo and act as a streamer.
Aha .
You need the crossovers to be variable on all parametres , both LP and HP - a normal 24 or 12 dB crossover is not good enough for really good integration. You might need 36 dB or 48 dB/oct, with different combinations for LP and HP .
And you need peq filters with variable Q. Can oppo 105 do this ?
 

james57

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Aha .
You need the crossovers to be variable on all parametres , both LP and HP - a normal 24 or 12 dB crossover is not good enough for really good integration. You might need 36 dB or 48 dB/oct, with different combinations for LP and HP .
And you need peq filters with variable Q.

Aha .
You need the crossovers to be variable on all parametres , both LP and HP - a normal 24 or 12 dB crossover is not good enough for really good integration. You might need 36 dB or 48 dB/oct, with different combinations for LP and HP .
And you need peq filters with variable Q. Can oppo 105 do this ?
Short answer no. oppo 24-12 kind of, HPF either on oppo to avoid full range on my 804 and LPF on oppo or directly on my e15 yes it works ok. PEQ one band on the e15 which can only correct on peak. I manually setup level, phase and PEQ with REW but nowhere close to what a multiband full dsp-dirac and room correction can do, hence why I would consider to replace the oppo with a minisp flex if I go towards a pair of KH 420.
 

srrxr71

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don't want to hijack this thread but you really got me intrigued. My main feed is either the earc from my oled panel or alternatively the optical out, how would you integrate this with a passive cooling pc or apple ?? For music I agree that the rythmik sub is rarely in use but for movies there is a significant difference.
So for eARC I use a bluesound node. Whose usb digital out goes to a Topping D10b.

Yes the Blusound has coaxial digital out but this gives me versatility in that I can apply a remote controlled USB switch to the Topping and switch to PC/Mac/phone/iPad etc. Also it gives me a sample rate read out.

From the topping I use a blue jeans RCA to BNC which goes into an impedance converter to provide AES3 to the sub then monitors.

So simple, inexpensive and perfect integration. The LG oled can even control the Blusound volume output. However I keep that maxed out and use the Genelec aluminum volume knob. Such a luxury to have that tactile volume control. Yes you will need to run an extension cable. Just run it under a rug.


Also I am slowly working my way up. I started with analog. I still listen from YouTube on PC (NO ADs!!!!). Great suggestion engine.

This is because I don’t want to go whole hog at first. If I listen to a hi rez pure digital source I will be spoiled. For that reason i am holding back. Every little tweak new panel and calibration is taking me to new heights.

Basically one day all the tweaking will end. Maybe I’ll miss it?
 
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