Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

[Pearljam5000]

Anyone heard all 3?
8351B
8C
Kii 3

 

[kimmosto]

For domestic use do you think this group delay thing will be more audible than the lack of loudness capability of 2-ways with dynamic big orchestral music?

I would try to optimize both as much as possible Valid option is to prefer favorite music genre if forced to make clear compromise. I don't use/listen much orchestral music so the following could be underestimation: big orchestral music is usually captured far field with significant amount of early reflections mixed to direct instrument sound. It does not include clean transients as much as studio and synthetic so timing is probably not very audible and important. Prefer sound stage, spaciousness, envelopment, timbre, dynamics or whatever is important for you with that genre.
Rhythm music, piano, percussion etc. probably requires more force in the kicks to be something else than boring and bland.
Loudness war is extra variable in the game. Difficult to lift anything from a pancake.

 

[MBI]

Not sure about how recordings should be improved, but dipoles restitution renders well recording settings accoustics, shame they measure so poorly.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Anyone heard all 3?
8351B
8C
Kii 3

Keith from @Purité Audio will have done I think, and by later tomorrow will have heard the 8351B with W371 as well.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes looking forward to it, knowing my luck I will turn up and the place will be locked and barred.
I will take my measuring kit and ask to take some photographs, I am chiefly considering their value within a domestic setting.
As am alternative to kii THREE/ BXT or one Beolab 90!

Keith

 

[mononoaware]

will have heard the 8351B with W371 as well.

I am more interested in 8341a + W371A performance.
Solely because the 8341 in horizontal position (37cm) fits on top within the width of W371A (40cm).
Being anal. . .

Interestingly at Genelec Official “Audio Solutions”:
- 8341a (horizontal) + W371A is recommended under “Music Production > Mastering”
- 8351b (vertical) + W371A is recommended under “Home Application > High-end Listening”.

Probably 8341a combination is recommended for near-field (1.5-2.5m)
And 8351b combination is recommended far-field (2.5m+) more typical of “home application” situations.

But it would be nice to know the limits of 8341a combination (can it do 2.5-4 meters in 5-way complimentary mode?) as well as 8351b combination limits (4m+ with complimentary mode?).

 

[kimmosto]

dipoles restitution renders well recording settings accoustics, shame they measure so poorly.

What? Speakers are not designed for microphones. Usually for human being who's subjective impressions and opinions matter in private use. Measurements are able to provide some gauge or analysis for some individual features to control design process, QC, sound balance adjustments on site, preview hobby with subjective interpretations etc. but personal preferences, priorities, compatibilities and possibilities define what product will be selected. Not for example measurements and points on ASR forum. Sorry, this is or at least should be self-evident

 

[Frank Dernie]

I am more interested in 8341a + W371A performance.
Solely because the 8341 in horizontal position (37cm) fits on top within the width of W371A (40cm).
Being anal. . .

Interestingly at Genelec Official “Audio Solutions”:
- 8341a (horizontal) + W371A is recommended under “Music Production > Mastering”
- 8351b (vertical) + W371A is recommended under “Home Application > High-end Listening”.

Probably 8341a combination is recommended for near-field (1.5-2.5m)
And 8351b combination is recommended far-field (2.5m+) more typical of “home application” situations.
But it would be nice to know the 8341a combination limits (can it do 2.5-4 meters in 5-way complimentary mode?) as well as 8351b combination limits (4m+ with complimentary mode?).

I think the 8351B on its side on the W371, as uses in the 2L studio, looks the nicest of all - or at least slightly less hideous. With the isolating pad removed and taking the rounded ends into account it looks a better width match than the 8431 IMO.
For what that is worth.

My only interest is domestic at around 4-5 meters

 

[mononoaware]

I am chiefly considering their value within a domestic setting.

I am also interested in the W371A combinations in a domestic setting (minimal room-treatment etc).

I am particularly interested in the limits of 8341a + W371A combination.

If demonstration/measurements are difficult than just a few numbers from Genelec Official would be helpful to get an idea.
(In X mode: XdB @ X meters, XdB @ X meters, XdB @ X meters etc)

 

[echopraxia]

What? Speakers are not designed for microphones. Usually for human being who's subjective impressions and opinions matter in private use. Measurements are able to provide some gauge or analysis for some individual features to control design process, QC, sound balance adjustments on site, preview hobby with subjective interpretations etc. but personal preferences, priorities, compatibilities and possibilities define what product will be selected. Not for example measurements and points on ASR forum. Sorry, this is or at least should be self-evident

Yeah true, a lot of very foolish people make a terrible decision to select speakers by going into a carefully treated demo room to listen, sometimes even to dealer-provided demo tracks. Or sometimes they’ll demo in their own home but neglect to realize that their selection of test tracks was picked over time to favor a particular brand of speaker coloration, leading to the circular conclusion that only this brand of speaker sounds best subjectively. Such horribly unreliable ways of selecting speakers, prone to so many biases (including whatever the dealer wants to push) — surely only the most pathetic sort of fools would use such a method, instead of the best measurement and evaluation techniques developed and refined by many scientists over decades to do precisely this: reliably select speakers that are virtually guaranteed to provide a lifetime of enjoyment across all genres of music. “Sorry, this is or at least should be self-evident ”

Before you feel insulted, note that my former self was one of those pathetic fools (which I don’t mean literally, but is just my strange form of shock humor) . As an audiophile, it’s pretty easy to find yourself feeling foolish in retrospect, when you realize that you too were victim to this industry’s epidemic of dishonest subjective reviews, snakeoil salesman, anti-science ignorance, and general foolishness all-around. As a result, I wasted a lot of time and money on overpriced mediocre speakers thanks to subjectivist nonsense like this. As for you... the choice is yours All you need is an open mind to the possibility that maybe there is at least something that the science got right (even if not 100%).

 

[mononoaware]

With the isolating pad removed and taking the rounded ends into account it looks a better width match than the 8431 IMO.
For what that is worth.

Thank you for your opinion.
8351b Total width is 45.2cm.
So rounded edge enough to mask 2.6cm each side?

Another reason for going with 8341a would be cost savings.
But as I understand it the B models are the higher Max SPL variant?
Although 8351b outperforms 8351a by only 2dB. . .

It may be that 8351b and larger is the only option at a certain far-field listening distance.

 

[Purité Audio]

I think the 8351B on its side on the W371, as uses in the 2L studio, looks the nicest of all - or at least slightly less hideous. With the isolating pad removed and taking the rounded ends into account it looks a better width match than the 8431 IMO.
For what that is worth.

My only interest is domestic at around 4-5 meters

What would you estimate the volume of your room Frank, my room is at the upper limit recommended for the old 8260,
Listening distance at 4-5 metres is going to include a fair bit of room.
https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

Keith

 

[Frank Dernie]

8351b Total width is 45.2cm.
So rounded edge enough to mask 2.6cm each side?

The iso-pod is probably 40mm of that, and that gets moved to the side when it becomes the bottom. So yes.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What would you estimate the volume of your room Frank, my room is at the upper limit recommended for the old 8260,
Listening distance at 4-5 metres is going to include a fair bit of room.
https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

Keith

Yes Keith if I go by that document the recommended speakers are the 1236A which is what stopped my looking at Genelecs a few years ago, though I did consider them!
The Geithain 801 and 901 may be a better match but the potential of the 8351/W371 looks very interesting.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

What? Speakers are not designed for microphones.

This is a remarkably deep question. In principle we want the two to be symmetrical. Sound field around the microphone becomes the sound field created by the speaker. The trouble is that idea breaks down almost instantly, and it just becomes worse as we go on. Indeed the trivial intuition about stereophonic reproduction breaks down almost instantly for the same reasons.
Moreover microphones don't even all work in the same way, condenser capsules register air pressure, ribbons air velocity, and yet we assemble the response of both into the same result and feed the result to loudspeakers.
There is a chicken and egg (not far off a circle of confusion as well) with microphones and speakers. It is hard to deconvolve the level ambience captured (or faked up) in a recording from the manner in which a loudspeaker interacts with the listening room, and thus how a loudspeaker is designed, especially with respect to directivity. Loudspeakers used for mixing are in a way designed and set up for use in a way that is both informed by the expected final listening environment, but during tracking the loudspeakers (often the same loudspeakers, but not always) are being used to directly monitor the result of a microphone's output.
Close mic'ing means a totally different recorded artefact to say an orchestra recorded with a Decca tree, ORTF, crossed pair etc. Yet in the end we send the result to the same speakers in our listening rooms and expect all to sound good, if not realistic. Loudspeakers are designed to work across the range of recording techniques, and those techniques are designed to work well feeding our current designs of loudspeakers. Yet Siegfried Linkwitz spent a lifetime working on an improved speaker/room system that he felt created a better in-room result from those same recordings.
I think it is fair to say that speakers are indeed designed for microphones, but the relationship is, as they say, complicated.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yeah true, a lot of very foolish people make a terrible decision to select speakers by going into a carefully treated demo room to listen, sometimes even to dealer-provided demo tracks. Or sometimes they’ll demo in their own home but neglect to realize that their selection of test tracks was picked over time to favor a particular brand of speaker coloration, leading to the circular conclusion that only this brand of speaker sounds best subjectively. Such horribly unreliable ways of selecting speakers, prone to so many biases (including whatever the dealer wants to push) — surely only the most pathetic sort of fools would use such a method, instead of the best measurement and evaluation techniques developed and refined by many scientists over decades to do precisely this: reliably select speakers that are virtually guaranteed to provide a lifetime of enjoyment across all genres of music. “Sorry, this is or at least should be self-evident ”

Before you feel insulted, note that my former self was one of those pathetic fools (which I don’t mean literally, but is just my strange form of shock humor) . As an audiophile, it’s pretty easy to find yourself feeling foolish in retrospect, when you realize that you too were victim to this industry’s epidemic of dishonest subjective reviews, snakeoil salesman, anti-science ignorance, and general foolishness all-around. As a result, I wasted a lot of time and money on overpriced mediocre speakers thanks to subjectivist nonsense like this. As for you... the choice is yours All you need is an open mind to the possibility that maybe there is at least something that the science got right (even if not 100%).

Measurements are handy for a short list but buying without listening is stark staring bonkers IME, the most disappointing speaker I ever auditioned had state of the art - for the time- measurements but sounded dreadful on my favourite music, even though spectacular on other stuff.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I will take my measuring kit

Pound to a penny they will have all the GLM measurements to look at and if the webinar is anything to go by it is the choice making when running GLM which makes the soundscape, the potential of the pairing meaning a lot of things are possible which are not with anything else. That is what impresses me anyway.
I have zero interest in the 8351B without the W371.

 

[prerich]

Pound to a penny they will have all the GLM measurements to look at and if the webinar is anything to go by it is the choice making when running GLM which makes the soundscape, the potential of the pairing meaning a lot of things are possible which are not with anything else. That is what impresses me anyway.
I have zero interest in the 8351B without the W371.

Yeah.....I'd like to get that full range bottom as well. If you're far-field listening - or mains - the sub is a must.

 

[kimmosto]

...the best measurement and evaluation techniques developed and refined by many scientists over decades to do precisely this: reliably select speakers that are virtually guaranteed to provide a lifetime of enjoyment across all genres of music.

"Local speaker designer" uses the same science and measurements visible also here, and almost never listens his designs more than 1-2 hours before production. It's also quite possible that he would not care any of the speakers in top ten of ASP's ranking list. Maybe it's just jelousy or science is still so flexible that we can select and weight own favorite benchmarks

 

[Spocko]

@Spocko Thanks for sharing! I have a similar plan. Buy one GLM sub like 7360 or 7370 to support my 2 SVS 12" subs. Did you have any issues in integrating GLM with non-GLM subs especially time and phase alignments? How did you manage? Are you also using subs in 2ch music? If yes, where do you place them? Do you also use additional Genelec monitors for surrounds?

I'm hoping the Trinnov takes care of that - I don't know yet! My plan is to have the 8360/8351 integrate with the 7370 via GLM and treated as 3 single full range speakers and letting GLM handle the time/phase alignments between the 4 units. Then Trinnov will integrate that group with the JTR. Of course this is all in theory. Trinnov suggested I treat these 5 as separates and let Trinnov figure them all out if all else fails. I'm planning to upmix all 2-channel stereo with Auromatic to enjoy the magic of multi-channel immersion