Genelec 8341A SAM™ Studio Monitor Review

[Pearljam5000]

 

[Wiredforsound]

@Wiredforsound : Indeed, why should Amir change his process ? He has tested three of the four models among The Ones series -the 8341, 8351 B and 8361- using basically the same tests, giving very good results for these three models. That's definitely consistency. Can you precise what you ask for more ?

Not what I said.
His process is great, not saying otherwise.
It is evident that the tests took him by surprise.
Except for the volume limitations.
Where these his first for this line of Genelec?
Seems to be, to me, reading his review.

 

[Tovarich007]

What do you mean by "it's evident that the test took him by surprise " ? Which test, and which surprise ? Sincerely sorry but I still don't understand what's your issue with this tests.
The first Gen. The Ones reviewed on ASR was the 8341, the smallest of the three tested.
You can check the history of the numerous Genelec reviewed in ASR in the review index.

 

[kma100]

Perhaps @Wiredforsound is thinking that some of the *subjective* assessment might have changed? Or if objective, then Amir learned something new since the initial measurements, and remeasuring might lead to a different result. Or not. Just my guess.

 

[Wiredforsound]

Perhaps @Wiredforsound is thinking that some of the *subjective* assessment might have changed? Or if objective, then Amir learned something new since the initial measurements, and remeasuring might lead to a different result. Or not. Just my guess.

This right here.
Bias of unfamiliarity, subjective.
Measurements objective told the truth, leading to in my opinion, a surprise, due to the subjective bias, it's look.

Thank you

 

[srrxr71]

Okay now I get it. I can easily 107dB from 1 meter so I have to wonder what sort of SPL issues he had.

Okay I won’t say easily. That’s about the limit where I sit around 107dB.

 

[Wiredforsound]

107 db. With subwoofer and EQ?

 

[srrxr71]

107 db. With subwoofer and EQ?

Yes sorry I forget about the subs. Without the subs I think they would be quite a bit less also I add a generous +5dB slope to the base.

 

[Halbknapp]

One thing I never saw mentioned is that the 8341 has quite some level of distortion of higher order that rings the 800hz Resonance that seems to come from the woofer (slot?). So while the mid plays the 800hz fine any fraction of it (1/3, 1/4, 1/5.... Up to very high orders! ) will give a rather long ringing sound from the woofer slots. I guess that is what some people hear. It's just not as apparent when only showing 2nd and 3rd harmonics in a diagram and usually 5th, 7th and 9th harmonics are nowhere as pronounced as in this speaker. Is it a big deal? I can't tell subjectively on mine.

 

[Unfit4it]

Just got these babies installed on some stands in my small room, ran the GLM setup, and my god they're wonderful.

I gotta say that coming from a Neumann 120a/750 speaker-sub setup, there's now zero desire to have or even add a sub at any point in the future, they go plenty low.

I hear so much more details in music through them, its bonkers. The sweet spot is huge, and they also sound amazing wherever I am in the house and still able to hear them. Not sure if its GLM doing its magic or the speakers themselves, at this point

 

[thulle]

Visiting some friends and randomly saw a fairly good deal on a used pair of these nearby, with the K&M Genelec stands with duck feet. So I set them up in my friends living room and have been listening for a few days. No GLM kit as I intend to integrate w DIY subs.

The sweet spot is huge

Totally agree. Sofas here stand in an L-shape facing the TV, and realizing I could utilize the smooth fall-off to reduce the sound level from the right speaker when sitting in the sofa closest to the TV/right speaker by turning it in towards the room more it was possible to get a pretty good stereo balance even tho the left speaker is at more than twice the distance. Even this sounds surprisingly good.

there's now zero desire to have or even add a sub at any point in the future, they go plenty low

House here is a fairly old wooden house, living room has two double door-wide openings, to the hall and to the dining room, and those are connected w doorways to the kitchen. Hall also has a stairway to the second floor (UK first floor). Thus there's plenty of ways for the bass to escape, and while GLM probably would help a bit I really feel a few subs would be needed to make this feel complete.
Listening to a live show with Hans Zimmer at pretty low volume right now, and sitting about half meter from the wall behind me, thus having some bass reinforcement, I'm quite happy with the bass. But since my friends have kids that tend to watch the same stuff over and over I had the "opportunity" to watch the same movie with their soundbar + sub and then the genelecs, and going from a musical number to some action sequence it was pretty easy to hear where the bass response just falls off a cliff. In many cases I guess it doesn't matter, but depending on the material it's very apparent that there's an octave missing on the low end.

they also sound amazing wherever I am in the house and still able to hear them

This struck me too, even standing in the kitchen it's really pleasant to listen to. The bass kind of disappears unless I put my head closer to a wall to utilize a pressure maxima tho, and I don't have any other good speakers to compare to in the same location, but it's impressive how well-balanced it still sounds 2 rooms away.

 

[thulle]

One thing I never saw mentioned is that the 8341 has quite some level of distortion of higher order that rings the 800hz Resonance that seems to come from the woofer (slot?). So while the mid plays the 800hz fine any fraction of it (1/3, 1/4, 1/5.... Up to very high orders! ) will give a rather long ringing sound from the woofer slots.

Interesting observation, in the distortion graph there's these four peaks in two pairs with very similar shapes, one wider and one narrower for each of 2nd and 3rd harmonic:

And while there isn't any ringing at ~750 Hz, the narrower peaks seems to show up just above 800 Hz in the waterfall:

Correct me if I'm messing something up here, I'm speculating wildly, but a 800 Hz half-wave would be about 21,5 cm, and the external depth (and width) of the speaker is about 24cm, so internally it might be pretty spot on for a standing waves at this frequency both sideways and depthwise.
Checking the 8351B teardown thread there seems to be damping material inside the coax chamber, and between the upper and lower woofers, but nothing that'd damp those particular standing waves.
And while the crossover frequency for the woofers/coax is 500 Hz, a 400 Hz wave would bounce at the back and be back at the woofer 180° out of phase to generate that 2nd order distortion at 800 Hz?
Checking vertical directivity this unfortunately aligns with a very wide dispertion angle:

Tried finding some measurements for the 8(0/3)40 with the same cabinet size to see if the same thing happened there even tho they don't have the same dual-woofer setup, but couldn't see anything in the low-res graphs available:

Genelec 8040A measurements

I found some interesting measurements from the first model of Genelec 8040, the A model. This speaker was in production from 2005 - 2013, when it was replaced by the 8040B model. This is an analog active loudspeaker. https://www.genelec.com/previous-models/8040a None of the 8040 or 8340 models...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Checking if something similar happens in the 8331A we got a depth of 212mm and a width of 189mm, suppose we lose the same ~20-25mm for the walls and front waveguide we have about 190mm for the standing wave we get (speed of sound / 190mm / 2 ) = 930 Hz

Then we have this from Erin:

Being crap at reading these accurately I think we have spikes in
5th at 180-210, ie 900-1050 Hz
4th at 220-230, ie 880-920 Hz
3rd at 310-320, 930-960 Hz
2nd at 450, ie. 900 Hz

We have some extra 2nd and 3rd harmonic peaks suggesting a higher frequency too, but ignoring these for now.
Seems to fit pretty well? We're hitting where the sounds spreads more vertically, but not hitting as a distinct peak as with the 8341A:

Did a quick check on 8351B too, can't see this pattern in the distortion there. Maybe roomier cabinet makes it less of an issue?

Have you actually located it to the woofers, or when you say this seems to come from the "woofer (slot?)" do you mean woofer (port?) as in opening for the possibility it's leaking through the bass reflex port?

I'll do some measurements when I get home in a few weeks.

 

[Halbknapp]

My observation is just from an ordinary REW Sweep when I tried the function to show the harmonics at the harmonic frequency and they show up exactly at the same frequency. While that is rather typical for the harmonics to lign up on a resonance in generall I am not used to see 7th or 9th harmonics as well.
Measuring from the frequency that the Coax is playing and up the harmonic profile is very clean.

 

[thulle]

My observation is just from an ordinary REW Sweep when I tried the function to show the harmonics at the harmonic frequency and they show up exactly at the same frequency. While that is rather typical for the harmonics to lign up on a resonance in generall I am not used to see 7th or 9th harmonics as well.
Measuring from the frequency that the Coax is playing and up the harmonic profile is very clean.

Have you tried micing different angles, like really close to woofer/port to try to see where exactly it seems to be coming from?
Would you mind sharing the distortion graph if you got them available? Curious to see if the peaks have the same shape.

 

[Halbknapp]

Have you tried micing different angles, like really close to woofer/port to try to see where exactly it seems to be coming from?
Would you mind sharing the distortion graph if you got them available? Curious to see if the peaks have the same shape.

I definitely will do another measurement session and try close to different parts of the speaker.

 

[dashbad]

Of course it is. Though for you it may be easier to comprehend it when driver is working as a microphone, acoustically coupled by sound source so voltage is induced in the coil. It's like stating that electromotor and generator are not the same thing.

And guess what, water moleculles in your food also resonate when you put it into the MW owen, no matter they are EM coupled.