Genelec 8010A Powered Studio Monitor Review

[xykreinov]

That is subject to the people not from genelec. Many people don't care about size(some do I know, I mentioned earlier in this thread), thus this doesn't appeal to them. It's fine.
You can think of 8010 as a sweet spot. Cheap, compact, performing.
Or you can think it's cheaper smaller less SPL worse...

Right- that's what I meant in saying I didn't mean it relative to the rest of Genelec's line...

 

[Xyrium]

I'd love to see the KEF LSX's compared to these. Would they happen to be on the roster, Amir?

I see those going for $899 USD or so.

 

[Tks]

It’s more of a regional tax than a brand tax. In most of Europe and Canada a pair of these sell for a little under USD $500, which changes the value equation substantially IMHO.

$500, I can see it, but $700, I don't think so.

...and not as compact. Let alone that 3.9 is quite far from 5.1. The Genelecs are double the price, but that doesn't really warrant a need for double the score. Score just isn't linear with price enough for that to be feasible in general. Also, the the 6.6 score of the Vanatoo with a sub being 1.4 off from the Genelec's 8 is quite significant for those caring more about tonality in the mid to high ranges than bass extension.
I don't attach much value to connectivity options. Competent dongles that aren't that obtrusive can fill the niches that the Vanatoo offers like Bluetooth for very very cheap.

I'm not sure what makes you think portable bluetooth speakers just suddenly "stop" at $200. Much much more premium options exist- and they're silly boutique stuff pivoting off of the layman's attraction to supreme convenience.
$200+: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=portable+bluetooth+speaker&rh=n:172282,p_36:1253507011&dc&qid=1603156484&rnid=386442011&ref=sr_nr_p_36_5
$700+: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=portable+bluetooth+speaker&rh=p_36:70000-&qid=1603156471&rnid=386442011&ref=sr_nr_p_36_5
When you factor in that those are mono, even a single 8010A becomes an extremely appealing portable speaker, with some jerry-rigging of batteries, bluetooth, and such.
You could even use a Minirig portable sub for extra bass extension: https://minirigs.co.uk/speakers/minirig-subwoofer-3

The value comes from the size. Nothing else exists that sounds as good that is as small as the 8010A. I guess like my lack of care for connectivity on a speaker, you simply differ in how you value form factor.

Also, it seems you think the panther scores are supposed to be linear with value somehow. Not uncommonly, Amir will give something a good panther score if it has state-of-the-art performance for its form factor, disregarding price. So, what you say seems to be a criticism of the panther score more than anything.

Yeah I agree with most of this. But then we're talking at cross purposes for most of the disucssion. Like when you say you don't attach value to connectivity options for what are both considered desktop speakers. I find that a bit odd (then we're not talking about the same thing, especially when you consider we're talking about portability as well). So I think we need to settle that issue, we're either talking about portable, or desktop speakers? I'm more referring to something small like a desktop speaker, AND small enough to be "portable" in a classic stereo configuration if possible. The ones listed from the links, hardly get there, and could also be similarly criticized in the same way you criticized the Zero's that you say aren't the same size (or not similar enough to be a valid comparison I suppose). There's just too much of a mix of price, size, and use-case/category of speaker to properly even discuss the topic at the moment.

I know there are more premium options, I just don't see the need as most portable bluetooth speakers, are mostly there just to provide convenience rather than performance.

I also am still lost as to why the Vanatoo's at half the price aren't close enough in form factor for consideration, but I suppose if the constraint is that great, then sure, I would bet the Genelec takes the crown in that case.

As far as critcizing the panther score. Yeah, you hit it on the head, that was the main critique. I just don't get what the use case for these would be. If it's desktop, you can get relatively good performance for less, and with the other things you said you don't care for (but I am assuming people buying such speakers would care, as the audience is generalized), if you're looking for something portable, I would imagine you would want a few other things as well like truly portable designs that don't need to be small (small doesn't equal portable necessarily). I'm just having trouble understanding the target market for $700 is all. And that's why the panther was puzzling. Though as to the critique about panther scores scaling with preference scores linearly - completely against that assumption - as I didn't have preference scores in mind, nor did I want to mention them at all, it's just you challenged me for something similar, so I did a little hunt was all. I don't really care too much about preference score (in the same way you don't care much about connectivity) mostly because I don't have a setup where EQ isn't an option, thus that can be handled, provided THD isn't through the roof with peaks and valleys.

I've heard amir say he takes the conclusion and eventual scoring seriously as he appeals to a larger audience than himself, and takes value into account. A soccer/golf panther I assume knocks it out of the part in two ways, either extreme value, or extreme performance (or some other things like tons of features with the prior two being middling). I just didn't see that here, so with that I will say again, you're correct that: I am puzzled by the panther, but not due to preference rating at all.

 

[xykreinov]

$500, I can see it, but $700, I don't think so.



Yeah I agree with most of this. But then we're talking at cross purposes for most of the disucssion. Like when you say you don't attach value to connectivity options for what are both considered desktop speakers. I find that a bit odd (then we're not talking about the same thing, especially when you consider we're talking about portability as well). So I think we need to settle that issue, we're either talking about portable, or desktop speakers? I'm more referring to something small like a desktop speaker, AND small enough to be "portable" in a classic stereo configuration if possible. The ones listed from the links, hardly get there, and could also be similarly criticized in the same way you criticized the Zero's that you say aren't the same size (or not similar enough to be a valid comparison I suppose). There's just too much of a mix of price, size, and use-case/category of speaker to properly even discuss the topic at the moment.

It's just simply that, given the choice, I will gladly exchange the convenience of built-in connectivity for performance. As I said, dongles for conversion to bluetooth and such are cheap and unobtrusive these days.

I know there are more premium options, I just don't see the need as most portable bluetooth speakers, are mostly there just to provide convenience rather than performance.

Why not both for the same price? That was my point in bringing them up for comparison. Should you succeed in a jerry-rigged bluetooth 8010A with a battery pack, you'll be getting something highly comparable in size that sounds intensely better than other bells-and-whistle ridden portable speakers. Sure, the process of jerry-rigging isn't convenient. But, the end result would be.

I also am still lost as to why the Vanatoo's at half the price aren't close enough in form factor for consideration

Mostly because the iLoud Micro Monitors exist. Cheaper, smaller, and with highly comparable measurements to the Zero's. Would probably score slightly higher than the Zero due to deeper bass extension.

As far as critcizing the panther score. Yeah, you hit it on the head, that was the main critique. I just don't get what the use case for these would be. If it's desktop, you can get relatively good performance for less, and with the other things you said you don't care for (but I am assuming people buying such speakers would care, as the audience is generalized), if you're looking for something portable, I would imagine you would want a few other things as well like truly portable designs that don't need to be small (small doesn't equal portable necessarily). I'm just having trouble understanding the target market for $700 is all. And that's why the panther was puzzling. Though as to the critique about panther scores scaling with preference scores linearly - completely against that assumption - as I didn't have preference scores in mind, nor did I want to mention them at all, it's just you challenged me for something similar, so I did a little hunt was all. I don't really care too much about preference score (in the same way you don't care much about connectivity) mostly because I don't have a setup where EQ isn't an option, thus that can be handled, provided THD isn't through the roof with peaks and valleys.

I've heard amir say he takes the conclusion and eventual scoring seriously as he appeals to a larger audience than himself, and takes value into account. A soccer/golf panther I assume knocks it out of the part in two ways, either extreme value, or extreme performance (or some other things like tons of features with the prior two being middling). I just didn't see that here, so with that I will say again, you're correct that: I am puzzled by the panther, but not due to preference rating at all.

You keep glazing over the size for some reason. An example of the use-case would be someone in this very thread posting a pic of 8010As being used with his piano. Sure, he could spend a lot less and squeeze in some Vanatoo Zeroes, but he'd be missing considerable performance. To me, a with-sub score that's 1.4 better for $400 more is nothing to snuff at, regardless of price bracket.
On EQ, a lot of producers can't bother with it due to the latency it adds. Even 3ms (what the MiniDSP 2x4 HD adds) can be a lot, depending on what you're doing. As far as personal entertainment, I can't use EQ for the rhythm games I play where every ms of latency matters, which is why I'm excited to get the Micro Monitors and Hifiman HD4XX so I can lose the EQ when I need little latency, and put it back on when I need quality more than low latency. I already do that now, but my Beyerdynamic DT770 600 Ohms, while generally measuring pretty close to the Harman target, are too bass-heavy by default (even the recommended bass boost of the Harman target is too much for my very bass-sensitive ears, but the rest is fine), and my Klipsch R-41MPs are well.... Klipschs. So, it's a fatiguing experience without at least 10 band parametric EQ for the DT770s and at least 20 for the gruesome R-41MPs.
Also, EQ cannot fix everything that the preference score accounts for. But, when it can, even room-EQ is still likely going to do a better job EQing a high scoring speaker than a poor one.

I think we see panther scores the same way, though. To me, the extreme value lies in the form factor. But, you think the price is a bit too steep for that in it of itself. Considering absolutely no speaker as small performs comparably, I think it's fair. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

A zillion years ago my brother bought a pair of Sony APM 090 portable little speakers.
They were quite nice and I remember taking them with me half way around the planet along with a portable CD player and a carefully curated set of CDs when I spent three months studying in Scotland. Living out of your 20kg checked in luggage allowance for three months is tight.
These little Genelecs would be about three times the price now. But if I had the need I could easily see buying them for this purpose.
The only thing they are missing is a digital input.

 

[thewas]

It should not be forgotten that for desktop use if size is is not an issue someone could get for example a pair or JBL 305 which with EQ (which costs nothing at a Windows system thanks to EQ APO) gets a Harman score of 7.1 which is higher than of most loudspeakers:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...all-speakers-reviews.11373/page-3#post-472521
https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/scores.html
Of course the score doesn't tell the whole truth about a loudspeaker, like for example distortions, hiss, build quality, but still it is a quite nice alternative for one third of the price which can also go significantly louder.

 

[Soniclife]

So the argument of "just buy bigger speakers" is usually DoA. For some people, the difference between a 3" a 5" speaker is significant.

I often find myself in those two groups. I want good sound, but I don't want a pair of giant monitors on my desk. I also need speakers for my digital piano, and for that, the smaller the better. It's already unreasonable enough that I have three speaker setups(five, if you count smart speakers) in a small apartment shared with a partner (and three pets)

Anyway, small speakers can be great. I enjoy the various multithousand dollar living room setups I've reviewed but frankly I often feel like enjoy listening at my desk with tiny speakers more, sometimes even without a sub. This might even just be be sure my desk is in a quieter part of my apartment. We have to work with the space we've got.

Lastly, it's worth noting that these are small enough you might have them at less than 1m. I use my desk speakers at about 0.6m, where larger speakers might need more room to integrate or might just not fit from that close. I'd pretty much never hit the SPLs tested here other than some peaks.

I don't see why this is so hard for people to follow, especially the first line about size, in my home office a 5" speaker is a practical as a large floor stander, it simply won't fit. When I was choosing speakers for my desk size dictated it came down to these, the iLoud, or the Eve 203, I chose the Eve for reasons I don't precisely remember, but USB in and a volume control on the front was important, I love them, though they did grow a sub on the floor after a few months, which works really well. Your point about almost preferring them to living room systems is very familiar, they are inferior to what I have in the lounge, but they are more fun, I never get bored or annoyed by them, and sometimes I prefer them.

 

[xykreinov]

Thanks. Liked this video he posted:

My thoughts exactly...

 

[maverickronin]

As far as personal entertainment, I can't use EQ for the rhythm games I play where every ms of latency matters,

What monitor are you using to get similarly low latency for the video? Old school CRT?

 

[ElNino]

What monitor are you using to get similarly low latency for the video? Old school CRT?

This is a good point. As long as you're doing minimum phase EQ, audio EQ latency these days is better than typical LCD video processing latency. You can do full roundtrip EQ on the Babyface Pro FS at 44.1kHz with 3.1msec latency.

 

[xykreinov]

What monitor are you using to get similarly low latency for the video? Old school CRT?

Yup
A ViewSonic G90f

I couldn't get my camera to not blow the shadowmask out of proportion, or stop it from making whites look too purple. The monitor is sharper than the photo would imply

 

[digititus]

Had these with the matching sub for many years. Currently in use with the kids playstation and for watching films. Fantastic servants and very versatile in use and placement.

 

[maverickronin]

Yup
A ViewSonic G90f

Hope it lasts for you. I held on to a big 20+ 2048x1536 Veiwsonic (I can't remember the model number) for a long time before the green channel completely died on me a few years ago and I replaced it with 165hz Gsync LCD.

 

[UNow42]

I have these since 5 years using them as desktop monitors, listening distance 60 to 70 cm, desktop filter engaged. As recommended I am using stands to get the tweeter to ear level. I never had issues with crackling sound as discribed by Amir, maybe because of the listening level or the distance.
If I want it loud I have a pair of Genelec 8260 at my main system.

 

[xykreinov]

Hope it lasts for you. I held on to a big 20+ 2048x1536 Veiwsonic (I can't remember the model number) for a long time before the green channel completely died on me a few years ago and I replaced it with 165hz Gsync LCD.

Thanks, and oh wow. Probably a G220 or G225f. The G225f is probably the most attractive CRT on paper- super high horizontal scan rate paired with a shadowmask with an unmatched .2mm dot-pitch. I definitely would jump on getting it over the popular Sony FW900.
Frankly, I'm not going to spend any more money on LCDs. Proper OLED monitors are almost within reach, what with Asus' and Eizo's new desktop models. I've seen and own excellent LCDs, like the 4k 120% RGB screen of my laptop. But, alas, the motion clarity and black levels are a let down with every model. Even when you have the local dimming zone LCDs fixing the issue with blacks substantially, their motion clarity is still off.
OLEDs have some catching up to do too, as far as motion clarity. But, they're generally much closer than LCDs.

 

[q3cpma]

Proper OLED monitors are almost within reach, what with Asus' and Eizo's new desktop models. I've seen and own excellent LCDs, like the 4k 120% RGB screen of my laptop. But, alas, the motion clarity and black levels are a let down with every model. Even when you have the local dimming zone LCDs fixing the issue with blacks substantially, their motion clarity is still off.
OLEDs have some catching up to do too, as far as motion clarity. But, they're generally much closer than LCDs.

That's why microled will save us.

 

[Aerial Acoustic Guy]

Anyone have experience with the Genelec 8020, 4020 or G two? Thanks in advance.

 

[LTig]

Anyone have experience with the Genelec 8020, 4020 or G two? Thanks in advance.

I have 2 pairs of 8020a, what do you want to know?

 

[xykreinov]

That's why microled will save us.

Well, that seems to be really far off, sadly. It's going to take awhile for manufactures to be able to make them with small dot pitches for a reasonable price. Will we get awesome 40"+ displays? Sure. But, 30" and below desktop monitors are going to take a long while because of how difficult and expensive small MicroLED pixels are to create.
Burn-in with OLED is becoming FUD more and more these days. They've gotten really good at hardware-level techniques that defend against it. Nonetheless, MicroLED is definitely the best of both worlds- it should be exciting when they can finally be made small for desktop use.

 

[Blake Klondike]

Found these nice cut photos of bigger brother 8020B (older gen., current is "D"):

Spoiler: 8020B cross section photos

src1, src2

+ nice pro audition test/comparison:
A discussion on studio monitors:
We brought together Sapphire Slows, Wata Igarashi, Gonno, Sauce81 and Taiji Okuda to test some of the best monitors for electronic music production under €800.

I have a pair of the 8020B for mixing, and serious listening and I love them. When auditioning other speakers, I have to remind myself constantly that I would have to spend a lot of money to beat them!