Genelec 8010A Powered Studio Monitor Review

[amirm]

You just might like this fellows website: https://www.lloydkahn.com/

Thanks. Liked this video he posted:

 

[Xyrium]

You might reasonably view the 8010As as a design exercise to see how much you can fit into a small package. Otherwise, you'll often see pros using 8030s in a travel situation (see Genelec 8030.LSE Broadcast Pak and Triple Play).

But these speakers are also marketed to the home theater / room ambience crowds as the G One and 4010A respectively. When you think about those situations, shooting for around 80 Hz before significant rolloff makes sense because they will usually be paired with a subwoofer. Who wants to invest an equal amount of money in full-range surrounds unless you're working in a mastering facility (or simply have a mega budget)?

I agree with your opening statement, this product seems like a concept.

The problem with the 8010's is that the 8030's aren't far more expensive, and the 8030's have updated amps, and larger drivers (lower distortion). Even directivity isn't lost on the 8030. To use the 8010's (or any speaker using a driver as a woofer that is less than 5"), you'd probably have to xover at Schroeder, which may be unacceptable for some.

These conversations about what levels of THD are deemed unacceptable seem to boil down to true knowledge of what any particular instrument produces. If we take a cello, then play chords and scales on it, and measure that output at the instrument, then play it back on a pair of speakers, and compare those measurements, perhaps we'd be getting close. However, to base any judgment off of the audible memory of anyone, trained or otherwise, will always be suspect. There are those who actually prefer to hear the additional harmonics that swamp the original signal in a high distortion piece of equipment. However, if you're trying to get closer to the performance, the lower the THD in the reproduction, the better. Then, you can EQ the room to taste, accordingly.

 

[Tks]

They don't need a sub for typical desktop use. They have a very satisfying balanced sound with just enough bass. This is unlike many small speakers that sound tinny without a sub, and boomy with one.

Again, nothing really does holding it to a low enough max SPL output. The point being as always, they're good, just not $700 good from what I see.

 

[xykreinov]

I don't understand how you worked out that they give 15dB lower SPL? Max SPL doesn't seem a whole lot different from these Genelecs as far as I can tell (from the limited data we have). And the iLouds seem to have about 25Hz lower bass extension, not 40Hz.

Yeah, I see what you mean, they do seem to have 25Hz lower, not 40. I misread where it starts to fall off.
As far as the difference in max SPL, looking at it more closely than I did before, the Genelec's response seems to be around 87dB, where the iLoud's seems to be around 75dB. I worked it out by, discounting the bass roll off, mentally drawing a perpendicular-to-x-axis line of best fit for each speaker's response, and making the dB level it's at the max SPL. Did I miss something?

 

[xykreinov]

Again, nothing really does holding it to a low enough max SPL output. The point being as always, they're good, just not $700 good from what I see.

You keep saying it's not $700 good, but what other speaker is this small with actually competitive measurements? Form factor isn't worthless. On this forum at least, I've seen nothing remotely this small that gets all too close to a preference rating of 5.
Besides, think of all the overpriced portable bluetooth junk out there. Some definitely are in this price bracket, with a similar compactness to a pair of 8010As, while possessing a guaranteed-worse sound than the 8010As.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yeah, I see what you mean, they do seem to have 25Hz lower, not 40. I misread where it starts to fall off.
As far as the difference in max SPL, looking at it more closely than I did before, the Genelec's response seems to be around 87dB, where the iLoud's seems to be around 75dB. I worked it out by, discounting the bass roll off, mentally drawing a perpendicular-to-x-axis line of best fit for each speaker's response, and making that the dB level it's at the max SPL. Did I miss something?

Ah yes, I see what you've done. Since these are active speakers, the decibel levels at which Amir and @napilopez chose to measure them are entirely arbitrary (i.e. it's not like a passive speaker where we typically input 2.83V to determine the sensitivity). So there's no point comparing the absolute levels that these two speakers were measured at. Does that make sense?

 

[xykreinov]

Ah yes, I see what you've done. Since these are active speakers, the decibel levels at which Amir and @napilopez chose to measure them are entirely arbitrary (i.e. it's not like a passive speaker where we typically input 2.83V to determine the sensitivity). So there's no point comparing the absolute levels that these two speakers were measured at. Does that make sense?

Sort of. Are the built-in amps restricting how accurately you can measure max SPL somehow? What's arbitrary about the level- what determines the level at which they're measured at if it's not just cranked to max?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Sort of. Are the built-in amps restricting how accurately you can measure max SPL somehow?

No no, it's just that napilopez didn't measure the iLoud's max SPL at all. He just measured the speaker at an arbitrary level of around 75dB.

However, iLoud claims on their website that the speaker's max output (defined as 10% THD) is equivalent to around 88dB/1m @ 100Hz.

Amir measured the 8010 to be producing a slightly lesser amount of distortion at a slightly lower SPL (86dB). Assuming the iLoud's specs are accurate (a big if!), I'm inferring that the two should have similar max SPLs.

 

[ctrl]

Interesting perspective. I at least partly agree, but am curious as to how you arrived at it?

It's a long story...
In short: Own experience and experiments, many measurements and simulations, psychoacoustics,....
It is simply a pattern that (for me) can partly explain certain timbre impressions of loudspeakers quite well.
Can it predict timbre impressions based on measurements - rather not (There I am quite often wrong)

 

[xykreinov]

No no, it's just that napilopez didn't measure the iLoud's max SPL at all. He just measured the speaker at an arbitrary level of around 75dB.

However, iLoud claims on their website that the speaker's max output (defined as 10% THD) is equivalent to around 88dB/1m @ 100Hz.

Amir measured the 8010 to be producing a slightly lesser amount of distortion at a slightly lower SPL (86dB). Assuming the iLoud's specs are accurate (a big if!), I'm inferring that the two should have similar max SPLs.

Ahh, gotcha. I just assumed it's standard to measure max SPL in tandem with frequency response.
Yeah, the max SPLs should be very similar then- which is nice. The iLouds are definitely an even easier sell now that I know I could crank them to even louder levels in portable setups I have planned for them!

 

[andreasmaaan]

Ahh, gotcha. I just assumed it's standard to measure max SPL in tandem with frequency response.
Yeah, the max SPLs should be very similar then- which is nice. The iLouds are definitely an even easier sell now that I know I could crank them to even louder levels in portable setups I have planned for them!

Yeh, they do seem like an excellent value-for-money speaker

 

[napilopez]

Ah yes, I see what you've done. Since these are active speakers, the decibel levels at which Amir and @napilopez chose to measure them are entirely arbitrary (i.e. it's not like a passive speaker where we typically input 2.83V to determine the sensitivity). So there's no point comparing the absolute levels that these two speakers were measured at. Does that make sense?

Sort of. Are the built-in amps restricting how accurately you can measure max SPL somehow? What's arbitrary about the level- what determines the level at which they're measured at if it's not just cranked to max?

Yes, as andreasmaaan mentioned, I just measure the spins at 75dB because its a convenient volume without annoying my neighbors. Doing 70+ sweeps gets annoying real fast!

Normally for active speakers I do perform measurements at different SPL to puzzle out compression, but for some reason I never got around to doing it for the iLouds.

Noaudiophile did do a bit of it though. Note that his measurements are very different from mine, which suggests iLoud changed the tuning at some point. He says they can "go as loud as 96 dB" though they sound "horrible" at that SPL, and he doesn't specify a distance. Perhaps at his desk, as 96dB at 1m for a single speaker is quite a lot for a unit this small.

 

[restorer-john]

I think they are cute little things, especially in white.

I can see for travelling, desktop PC sound, hotel room editing work, O/B vans, a youtuber's wardrobe "studio", or Dad buying his young daughter a pair of "My First Genelecs" they could be just the ticket.

 

[Tks]

You keep saying it's not $700 good, but what other speaker is this small with actually competitive measurements? Form factor isn't worthless. On this forum at least, I've seen nothing remotely this small that gets all too close to a preference rating of 5.
Besides, think of all the overpriced portable bluetooth junk out there. Some definitely are in this price bracket, with a similar compactness to a pair of 8010As, while possessing a guaranteed-worse sound than the 8010As.

3.9 score. Half off, and far better connectivity options, tested using analog input (even though digital input is an option, but for some reason wasn't tested, and internal settings not revealed), also includes Bluetooth which actually goes better with "portability" aspirations. As for "overpriced bluetooth junk" those are speakers that are in the $100-$200 dollar range, so I don't actually expect them to rival a Genelec or be all that impressive from the get-go, but if I wanted impressive performance, I wouldn't be looking for 3-inch woofers.

I'll keep saying it though, for most people looking at portable, or small desktop speakers.. $700 isn't a tier I would imagine they'd be comfortable paying. With small form factor, we understand they'll have a hit to performance especially as SPL climbs. Which is why I say, if you're willing to take a performance hit for the form factor - might as well consider something else, and leave top end performance for a mega purchase. Especially if you EQ and such.

Simply not seeing the value from a performance standpoint, nor from a features standpoint really.. And of course the aesthetics are driven by the subconcious understanding it is Genelec, but is this a speaker that has some sort of luxury flourish or novel aesthetic design? Not really, looks predominantly utilitarian but finished to a good degree, and as I said before, wouldn't stand out to anyone that didn't know of the brand-name (certainly not anyone I've talked to about speakers in high price brackets). So it looks okay, performs well, and has meh features considering competition (connectivity and such), but yet is priced quite considerably up there for a 'portable' speaker from a company that one knows takes themselves seriously. There is a brand tax you're paying with this. Which I guess is fine, but not really in the realm of good discussion if you're talking about value comparisons.

 

[ElNino]

There is a brand tax you're paying with this. Which I guess is fine, but not really in the realm of good discussion if you're talking about value comparisons.

It’s more of a regional tax than a brand tax. In most of Europe and Canada a pair of these sell for a little under USD $500, which changes the value equation substantially IMHO.

 

[napilopez]

As for the slightly 'warm' sound these have, even though there is only a slight on-axis tilt, my theory is that in the nearfield, we are more sensitive to an on-axis tilt as the ratio of direct to room sound leans more heavily towards the direct sound.

If a perfectly flat speaker in an anechoic chamber should sound 'neutral,' then it stands to reason that with fewer reflections, a slight tilt might come off as slightly warm, whereas at further distances it might become somewhat masked by the greater melding of direct and off-axis sounds. You might not notice such a small tilt from 10 feet away, but from 2 feet it becomes obvious.

Complete theory though =]

 

[xykreinov]

3.9 score. Half off, and far better connectivity options

...and not as compact. Let alone that 3.9 is quite far from 5.1. The Genelecs are double the price, but that doesn't really warrant a need for double the score. Score just isn't linear with price enough for that to be feasible in general. Also, the the 6.6 score of the Vanatoo with a sub being 1.4 off from the Genelec's 8 is quite significant for those caring more about tonality in the mid to high ranges than bass extension.
I don't attach much value to connectivity options. Competent dongles that aren't that obtrusive can fill the niches that the Vanatoo offers like Bluetooth for very very cheap.

As for "overpriced bluetooth junk" those are speakers that are in the $100-$200 dollar range, so I don't actually expect them to rival a Genelec or be all that impressive from the get-go, but if I wanted impressive performance, I wouldn't be looking for 3-inch woofers.

I'm not sure what makes you think portable bluetooth speakers just suddenly "stop" at $200. Much much more premium options exist- and they're silly boutique stuff pivoting off of the layman's attraction to supreme convenience.
$200+: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=portable+bluetooth+speaker&rh=n:172282,p_36:1253507011&dc&qid=1603156484&rnid=386442011&ref=sr_nr_p_36_5
$700+: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=portable+bluetooth+speaker&rh=p_36:70000-&qid=1603156471&rnid=386442011&ref=sr_nr_p_36_5
When you factor in that those are mono, even a single 8010A becomes an extremely appealing portable speaker, with some jerry-rigging of batteries, bluetooth, and such.
You could even use a Minirig portable sub for extra bass extension: https://minirigs.co.uk/speakers/minirig-subwoofer-3

Simply not seeing the value from a performance standpoint, nor from a features standpoint really..

The value comes from the size. Nothing else exists that sounds as good that is as small as the 8010A. I guess like my lack of care for connectivity on a speaker, you simply differ in how you value form factor.

Also, it seems you think the panther scores are supposed to be linear with value somehow. Not uncommonly, Amir will give something a good panther score if it has state-of-the-art performance for its form factor, disregarding price. So, what you say seems to be a criticism of the panther score more than anything.

 

[JohnYang1997]

...and not as compact. Let alone that 3.9 is quite far from 5.1. The Genelecs are double the price, but that doesn't really warrant a need for double the score. Score just isn't linear with price enough for that to be feasible in general. Also, the the 6.6 score of the Vanatoo with a sub being 1.4 off from the Genelec's 8 is quite significant for those caring more about tonality in the mid to high ranges than bass extension.
I don't attach much value to connectivity options. Competent dongles that aren't that obtrusive can fill the niches that the Vanatoo offers like Bluetooth for very very cheap.

I'm not sure what makes you think portable bluetooth speakers just suddenly "stop" at $200. Much much more premium options exist- and they're silly boutique stuff pivoting off of the layman's attraction to supreme convenience.
$200+: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=portable+bluetooth+speaker&rh=n:172282,p_36:1253507011&dc&qid=1603156484&rnid=386442011&ref=sr_nr_p_36_5
$700+: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=portable+bluetooth+speaker&rh=p_36:70000-&qid=1603156471&rnid=386442011&ref=sr_nr_p_36_5
When you factor in that those are mono, even a single 8010A becomes an extremely appealing portable speaker, with some jerry-rigging of batteries, bluetooth, and such.
You could even use a Minirig portable sub for bass extension: https://minirigs.co.uk/speakers/minirig-subwoofer-3

The value comes from the size. Nothing else exists that sounds as good that is as small as the 8010A. I guess like my lack of care for connectivity on a speaker, you simply differ in how you value form factor.

The issue here is that in genelec, size = money. It's not that smaller makes it more valuable. It's that it's the only option. They don't have anything cheaper larger and better. So for this pricr range genelec doesn't have anything to offer for higher SPL.
Hence. I don't think the point that it's this good and small. No, it's the only option. We can't get this good but cheaper or larger. SPL sacrifice is probably essential to make this good level of performance in a sense.

 

[xykreinov]

The issue here is that in genelec, size = money. It's not that smaller makes it more valuable. It's that it's the only option. They don't have anything cheaper larger and better. So for this pricr range genelec doesn't have anything to offer for higher SPL.
Hence. I don't think the point that it's this good and small. No, it's the only option. We can't get this good but cheaper or larger. SPL sacrifice is probably essential to make this good level of performance in a sense.

True, Genelecs are indeed more expensive the bigger (and louder) you go. However, in terms of general product landscape tangibility for the consumer, there's really nothing else as small that performs as well as the 8010A. That's what I meant by the value in its compactness- I didn't mean it relative to the rest of Genelec's line.

 

[JohnYang1997]

True, Genelecs are indeed more expensive the bigger you go. However, in terms of general product landscape tangibility for the consumer, there's really nothing else as small that performs as well. That's what I meant by the value in its compactness, not relative to the rest of Genelec's line.

That is subject to the people not from genelec. Many people don't care about size(some do I know, I mentioned earlier in this thread), thus this doesn't appeal to them. It's fine.
You can think of 8010 as a sweet spot. Cheap, compact, performing.
Or you can think it's cheaper smaller less SPL worse...