Genelec 1237A vs 8361A

[daftcombo]

The 8341A is a 3-way, and its coax driver delivers a clean, precise sound in the mid/upper frequencies that runs circles around the 1032c (although the latter’s tweeter is fantastic, shared by all Genelec’s main monitors). However, like all their aluminum monitors, the 8341A demonstrates a metallic tang that doesn’t sit right with me. I guess part and parcel of those enclosures. Some people may like that sound, but I prefer the neutrality of the MDF boxes

The second, and more troubling, deficiency of the 8341/51/61 is the slit design. To my ears, it generates a resonance that imparts the impression of an over-taut drum. The first moment I listened to the 8341A in my room, I picked on it and even called up the shop to verify my pair was not out of order. Eventually, that smeared LF became to annoying for me, compelling me to relegate the monitors to surround duties, where they shine to this day. If you want to get an idea what I refer to, just tap on a slit and pay attention to the distinct reverb. The same effect takes place when the monitor plays (instead of external tapping, the LF pressure hits the slit from within). I suppose Genelec considers it as an effectual way to boost the LF, but it doesn’t work for me. Again, some people may object to my preferences, and that’s absolutely fine.

Shouldn't both defects appear in @amirm 's measurements of the 8341 if they are really there?

 

[TimVG]

Shouldn't both defects appear in @amirm 's measurements of the 8341 if they are really there?

They don't appear in any measurements, here or elsewhere.

The 1032 is not quite as good purely from a measurement pov (although still excellent) but nonetheless they work really well as midfield monitors. I use them myself as LCR speakers. They simply do a lot of stuff 'right' without any obvious flaws.

 

[daftcombo]

They don't appear in any measurements, here or elsewhere.

Because they don't exist or because they can't be measured?

 

[TimVG]

Because they don't exist or because they can't be measured?

They can't be measured because they don't exist. There is only one correlation I can find which is a directivity issue in the vertical plane due to the slot radiation, but in this case it is more noticeable in the 8331 than the larger 8361, which is the opposite of the subjective claim.

 

[HairyEars]

They can't be measured because they don't exist. There is only one correlation I can find which is a directivity issue in the vertical plane due to the slot radiation, but in this case it is more noticeable in the 8331 than the larger 8361, which is the opposite of the subjective claim.

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Well, perhaps instead of throwing out charts that might not be relevant to the pheromone I describe, tap a slit and see for yourself. Better, still, conjure a hypothesis as why that said resonance doesn’t affect the sound.

 

[Hephaestus]

Well, perhaps instead of throwing out charts that might not be relevant to the pheromone I describe, tap a slit and see for yourself. Better, still, conjure a hypothesis as why that said resonance doesn’t affect the sound.

Perhaps you have read different research papers?

 

[TimVG]

Well, perhaps instead of throwing out charts that might not be relevant to the pheromone I describe, tap a slit and see for yourself. Better, still, conjure a hypothesis as why that said resonance doesn’t affect the sound.

Do you tap it while listening? Does someone or something else tap it while you listen? It's not meant to be tapped.
There's no resonances being excited to an audible degree when using the speaker as intended. A resonance doesn't show up in any of the usual plots, nor in any of the other ones. Therefore, there is no issue, only the one that you've convinced yourself of. Welcome to ASR!

 

[Sancus]

Well, perhaps instead of throwing out charts that might not be relevant to the pheromone I describe, tap a slit and see for yourself. Better, still, conjure a hypothesis as why that said resonance doesn’t affect the sound.

The slits in Genelecs do NOT resonate when tapped. I own them. I don't know how else to say this. What you're referring to simply does not exist. They make a slightly different sound than the rest of the cabinet, of course, but it's comically minimal. Tapping just about any cabinet made of a non-metallic material, wood, plastic(like my KH80s) makes a considerably louder sound.

Tapping cabinets is not a good way to find resonances in any case since you are not vibrating them in any way remotely similar to the actual drivers. The way you find resonances is to measure the frequency response anechoically. Which we have done. And there aren't any.

The idea that some kind of physical tap test would find flaws that don't show up in anechoic measurements from multiple sources is completely absurd.

 

[HairyEars]

Do you tap it while listening? Does someone or something else tap it while you listen? It's not meant to be tapped.
There's no resonances being excited to an audible degree when using the speaker as intended. A resonance doesn't show up in any of the usual plots, nor in any of the other ones. Therefore, there is no issue, only the one that you've convinced yourself of. Welcome to ASR!

Those are pretty unintelligent questions.

As I explained above, and apparently you have missed:
“Instead of external tapping, the LF pressure hits the slits from within.”

The rest of your chastisement is merely evidence that you ought to look in the mirror when discussing zealots who work hard to convince themselves.

 

[HairyEars]

The slits in Genelecs do NOT resonate when tapped. I own them. I don't know how else to say this. What you're referring to simply does not exist. They make a slightly different sound than the rest of the cabinet, of course, but it's comically minimal. Tapping just about any cabinet made of a non-metallic material, wood, plastic(like my KH80s) makes a considerably louder sound.

Tapping cabinets is not a good way to find resonances in any case since you are not vibrating them in any way remotely similar to the actual drivers. The way you find resonances is to measure the frequency response anechoically. Which we have done. And there aren't any.

The idea that some kind of physical tap test would find flaws that don't show up in anechoic measurements from multiple sources is completely absurd.

If you genuinely can’t hear the resonance/echo when tapping the slit, then you’re better off sticking to reading charts than listening to music.

P.S.1:
For your entertainment, several years ago, Genelec shared with me that other people had reported on that resonance. Still, they’re happy with that design—and seemingly many of their customers—so good on you all.

P.S.2:
Ain’t gonna waste more time here. Do whatever makes you happy.

 

[TimVG]

Those are pretty unintelligent questions.

Continued arguing in the face of overwhelming evidence tops it though

“Instead of external tapping, the LF pressure hits the slits from within.”

For your entertainment, several years ago, Genelec shared with me that other people had reported on that resonance.Still, they’re happy with that design

The off-axis discrepancy is most noticeable in the 8331 and near absent in the 8361, the opposite of your subjective claim, and even then its audibility is debatable as it only relates to the vertical polar map. Of course Genelec is happy, it's their top of the line nearfield series. Do you honestly believe if there were an obvious issue (resonance) they wouldn't have fixed it?


I suggest reading your own words and let them sink in

The rest of your chastisement is merely evidence that you ought to look in the mirror when discussing zealots who work hard to convince themselves.

There's only one person here who has no objective of proof of his claims, and that's you.

 

[hege]

Might as well post here a translated copy of my 1237A SPL tests..

Having some alone time at home is rarity these days, so now that I got some, I decided to put my trusty -15dB custom Elacin earplugs to use and test my 1237A limits.

A little over two meters away, UMIK-1/REW figures, a tiny bit below of getting red lights blinking.

(Electronic bassy music / hiphop, Roddy Ricch ftw..)
LASmax 92 LZSmax 112 LZpeak 120dB

(Metal.. Insomnium, Fleshgod Apocalypse etc..)
LASmax 105 LZSmax 112 LZpeak 125dB

(For comparing to GLM microphone values, LZSmax is about the same)
(Seem to hit specs right on the money, 1032C I tested at ~104dB long term, and now 1237A ~112dB... pair of speakers and 2m distance cancel eachother)

Subs were not used here. Handled well an hour of beating, amps didn't seem much warm. Got some good wind breezes from the ports sometimes, like a fan in your face.

You can see the difference of music genres from dBA(LASmax) as bass not is counted.. simple bassy music can be played even without hearing protection, while having decend physical sensations. Metal has so much going on that your ears will blow without protection, but then again at normal apartment levels it's just boring flat sizzling with absolutely no balls. There's no getting over that you need lots of volume for the wall of sound drumming your chest. Or some sort of extreme loudness-eq..

Looking at their size these are very well performing speakers, atleast here in my concrete basement. I'd love to compare 8361A, but I think they would have exploded, no matter how "close" the specs look to be..

I'd still like another +6dB bass headroom, so I could enjoy bassy stuff at club levels. I think I could make 1234A fit, maybe someday.. for now I'll probably try another brand of custom plugs, since the fit is starting to detoriate (10 years old atleast..).. maybe Amir could do a hifi hearing protection shootout.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Might as well post here a translated copy of my 1237A SPL tests..

Having some alone time at home is rarity these days, so now that I got some, I decided to put my trusty -15dB custom Elacin earplugs to use and test my 1237A limits.

A little over two meters away, UMIK-1/REW figures, a tiny bit below of getting red lights blinking.

(Electronic bassy music / hiphop, Roddy Ricch ftw..)
LASmax 92 LZSmax 112 LZpeak 120dB

(Metal.. Insomnium, Fleshgod Apocalypse etc..)
LASmax 105 LZSmax 112 LZpeak 125dB

(For comparing to GLM microphone values, LZSmax is about the same)
(Seem to hit specs right on the money, 1032C I tested at ~104dB long term, and now 1237A ~112dB... pair of speakers and 2m distance cancel eachother)

Subs were not used here. Handled well an hour of beating, amps didn't seem much warm. Got some good wind breezes from the ports sometimes, like a fan in your face.

You can see the difference of music genres from dBA(LASmax) as bass not is counted.. simple bassy music can be played even without hearing protection, while having decend physical sensations. Metal has so much going on that your ears will blow without protection, but then again at normal apartment levels it's just boring flat sizzling with absolutely no balls. There's no getting over that you need lots of volume for the wall of sound drumming your chest. Or some sort of extreme loudness-eq..

Looking at their size these are very well performing speakers, atleast here in my concrete basement. I'd love to compare 8361A, but I think they would have exploded, no matter how "close" the specs look to be..

I'd still like another +6dB bass headroom, so I could enjoy bassy stuff at club levels. I think I could make 1234A fit, maybe someday.. for now I'll probably try another brand of custom plugs, since the fit is starting to detoriate (10 years old atleast..).. maybe Amir could do a hifi hearing protection shootout.

Thanks for the info
The 1238A seem like the perfect upgrade for you

 

[hege]

Thanks for the info
The 1238A seem like the perfect upgrade for you

Well yeah specs would indicate about 4dB improvement. And it might actually be financially doable if I spot a used pair, though it's really rare and never seen much under 10k€. I probably can sell mine for 6k€+, dunno if it's worth the hassle. I could just try to make sturdier boxes for my subs and try to increase X/O a little higher.

JTR could be option if I lived there.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Well yeah specs would indicate about 4dB improvement. And it might actually be financially doable if I spot a used pair, though it's really rare and never seen much under 10k€. I probably can sell mine for 6k€+, dunno if it's worth the hassle. I could just try to make sturdier boxes for my subs and try to increase X/O a little higher.

JTR could be option if I lived there.

Genelec should be more clear about the differences between the 1237 and 8361
Because they both cost about the same and it's not clear which is better

 

[ABRAX]

So which one is better? Here someone is selling 1237 for 6800. And 8361 for 8500. 8341 for 4200.

I produce and mix techno.

 

[Puddingbuks]

So which one is better? Here someone is selling 1237 for 6800. And 8361 for 8500. 8341 for 4200.

I produce and mix techno.

Better at what?

8341 has its limitations spl wise, but you will damage your ears quickly playing that loud. In terms of bass the 8361 and 1237 will get lower and with more impact.

8361 would be my choice. For the coaxial driver.

 

[srrxr71]

They can't be measured because they don't exist. There is only one correlation I can find which is a directivity issue in the vertical plane due to the slot radiation, but in this case it is more noticeable in the 8331 than the larger 8361, which is the opposite of the subjective claim.

View attachment 119699

View attachment 119701

So I looked through the slit on the 8361. The aluminum is surprisingly thin. However there is mounted an assembly of what felt like 2 black plastic circles and a nickel looking metal on the inside which is totally about 1” thick. I stuck my finger in to try to figure out if the circles are foam or metal.

It felt like plastic.

I never looked into my 8341s like that. Also it’s much smaller so it’s harder to see. It’s just very easy to see on the 8361 especially before lifting them to mount on the stand.