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From Marantz AVR to Emotiva AVP

alik1006

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#1
I would like to move from AVR to components.

My current setup is rather simple 5.1: old Marantz SR7008 + B&W 683/685
As a next step I'd like to move to AVP + good stereo amp + reasonable surround amp. The main point is to get decent surround (11.1) and then continue improving stereo.

After all positive reviews I am considering Emotiva RMC-1L + Mcintosh Amp + Emotiva XPA Gen3 Amp
I specifically like XLR ins, USB audio in, good DACs (the big miss for Marantz, otherwise I would probably simply upgrade to SR8015 instead of switching to Emotiva).

Does this mix (Emotiva->McIntosh->B&W) even makes sense?
Is it true that Emotiva sounds rather "cold" (this only matters for me for stereo, less for surround)?
 

Webninja

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#2
You could find a reasonably priced AVR that will let you do L and R pre-out. Then get a good stereo amp. One solution would be a Denon 6700, and then a hypex based stereo or monoblocks for the stereo listening.
 
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alik1006

alik1006

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Thread Starter #3
You could find a reasonably priced AVR that will let you do L and R pre-out. Then get a good stereo amp. One solution would be a Denon 6700, and then a hypex based stereo or monoblocks for the stereo listening.
Yes, that was my first thought. I experimented a bit (with newer Marantz) and it seems RCAs do add some noise. So I would really prefer XLRs. Any recommendation on AVR with L and R XLRs (and preferably USB in as well)?
 

Dj7675

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#4
I would like to move from AVR to components.

My current setup is rather simple 5.1: old Marantz SR7008 + B&W 683/685
As a next step I'd like to move to AVP + good stereo amp + reasonable surround amp. The main point is to get decent surround (11.1) and then continue improving stereo.

After all positive reviews I am considering Emotiva RMC-1L + Mcintosh Amp + Emotiva XPA Gen3 Amp
I specifically like XLR ins, USB audio in, good DACs (the big miss for Marantz, otherwise I would probably simply upgrade to SR8015 instead of switching to Emotiva).

Does this mix (Emotiva->McIntosh->B&W) even makes sense?
Is it true that Emotiva sounds rather "cold" (this only matters for me for stereo, less for surround)?
My thoughts for what it is worth....
-RMC1L (Or emotiva in general)-Makes sense if you believe Emotiva to be stable enough and if you would need Dirac in your home theater
-As already mentioned, another option would be something like an x3700/4700/6700 or x8500. I went x8500 and am adding a hypex amp (nc252/nc250) for the front 3 channels. But if you needed more power something like the NC502 based amp would be one option. Then use the internal amps to drive everything else. No XLR, but if you don’t have issues with ground loops or long runs it shouldn’t be an issue. This setup would be better better performing I believe than the Emotiva/McIntosh setup and cost quite a lot less too. This would assume you are OK with no Dirac (Works very well for me).
-On The Emotiva sounding cold.. I would put zero stock in that. I’m sure it would sound very good as well as other AVRs and processors that measure well.
I almost went the Emotiva way but decided against it after I read on forums. Sounds like things may have improved?
Good luck with your shopping.

-
 
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alik1006

alik1006

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Thread Starter #5
My thoughts for what it is worth....
-RMC1L (Or emotiva in general)-Makes sense if you believe Emotiva to be stable enough and if you would need Dirac in your home theater
-As already mentioned, another option would be something like an x3700/4700/6700 or x8500. I went x8500 and am adding a hypex amp (nc252/nc250) for the front 3 channels. But if you needed more power something like the NC502 based amp would be one option. Then use the internal amps to drive everything else. No XLR, but if you don’t have issues with ground loops or long runs it shouldn’t be an issue. This setup would be better better performing I believe than the Emotiva/McIntosh setup and cost quite a lot less too. This would assume you are OK with no Dirac (Works very well for me).
-On The Emotiva sounding cold.. I would put zero stock in that. I’m sure it would sound very good as well as other AVRs and processors that measure well.
I almost went the Emotiva way but decided against it after I read on forums. Sounds like things may have improved?
Good luck with your shopping.

-
Thank you.
I will have a closer look at Denon (although every time I did that in the past, Marantz has always been "the same but better" :) ).
Dirac is not a must for me.

As for Emotiva stability - the updated review of 1.9 firmware (in case you missed it) seems to have major issues fixed. And there were several more releases with additional fixes, so overall verdict seems to be rather positive.
 

Dj7675

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#6
Thank you.
I will have a closer look at Denon (although every time I did that in the past, Marantz has always been "the same but better" :) ).
Dirac is not a must for me.

As for Emotiva stability - the updated review of 1.9 firmware (in case you missed it) seems to have major issues fixed. And there were several more releases with additional fixes, so overall verdict seems to be rather positive.
In terms of measurements, Denon>Marantz across the board. Best measuring processor is actually an AVR. It also has the feature to individually disconnect each amp so you can use a mix of internal and external amps to get the best performance.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x8500h-avr-review.15266/
If you want the best unit for both HT and Stereo, it is a good choice.
 
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alik1006

alik1006

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Thread Starter #7
In terms of measurements, Denon>Marantz across the board. Best measuring processor is actually an AVR. It also has the feature to individually disconnect each amp so you can use a mix of internal and external amps to get the best performance.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x8500h-avr-review.15266/
If you want the best unit for both HT and Stereo, it is a good choice.
Yeah, already checking it. I wish it had USB audio in as well... It seems they believe that only AVPs deserve it.
 

Webninja

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#8
Yes, that was my first thought. I experimented a bit (with newer Marantz) and it seems RCAs do add some noise. So I would really prefer XLRs. Any recommendation on AVR with L and R XLRs (and preferably USB in as well)?
i can’t recall any recent AVRs I’ve checked into with XLR. Amir reviewed the JBL Synthesis AVP, and that has XLRs, but for $6k, I’d rather have the Denon 8500 and 3 hypex-based monoblocks for my LCR.
 
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alik1006

alik1006

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i can’t recall any recent AVRs I’ve checked into with XLR. Amir reviewed the JBL Synthesis AVP, and that has XLRs, but for $6k, I’d rather have the Denon 8500 and 3 hypex-based monoblocks for my LCR.
Out of curiosity - why giving Center a dedicated amp?
 

Webninja

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#11
For home theater settings, there are opinions that the center is the most important speaker. Even if you don’t agree with that, it is at least as important as left and right. If a setup allows, you’d have three identical speakers for LCR, or in my dreams, all 7 speakers being identical. One day...
 

peng

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#12
Out of curiosity - why giving Center a dedicated amp?
It has been said that for movies, the center channel tend to have more contents and required more juice (all else being equal) than the left and right channels. I did take some measurements to see it for myself so I can confirm at least for the movies I used, such as the Hobbit series (just one example), the center did demand higher average and peak "power", based on voltage and current measurements. Whether you would consider it important or not, it depends, and obviously up to the individual.
 

Dj7675

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#14
It has been said that for movies, the center channel tend to have more contents and required more juice (all else being equal) than the left and right channels. I did take some measurements to see it for myself so I can confirm at least for the movies I used, such as the Hobbit series (just one example), the center did demand higher average and peak "power", based on voltage and current measurements. Whether you would consider it important or not, it depends, and obviously up to the individual.
Have you ever checked the surrounds peak power relative to the front?
 
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alik1006

alik1006

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Thread Starter #15
It has been said that for movies, the center channel tend to have more contents and required more juice (all else being equal) than the left and right channels. I did take some measurements to see it for myself so I can confirm at least for the movies I used, such as the Hobbit series (just one example), the center did demand higher average and peak "power", based on voltage and current measurements. Whether you would consider it important or not, it depends, and obviously up to the individual.
It is not about quality of the sounds, just more power is needed, right?
 
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alik1006

alik1006

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Thread Starter #16
Still hard to accept that Denon measures better than Marantz :)
Is there a comparison to SR8015? I see Gene's measure but do not see how they compare.
 

peng

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#18
It is not about quality of the sounds, just more power is needed, right?
Yes, but quality of sound is affected by the power needed. If you don't need more power then more power won't change anything. For example, if 100 W covers your power need including more than enough head room for 20 dB peak, then substituting a 100 W amp with a 200 W amp improve the quality of sound, all else being equal.
 

peng

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#19
Still hard to accept that Denon measures better than Marantz :)
Is there a comparison to SR8015? I see Gene's measure but do not see how they compare.
I hear you, hard to accept for people who went with Marantz for whatever reason and had to pay significantly more. I always knew about the possibility of paying more for less going with M instead of D, but was reconfirmed after I replaced my AVR-4308 CI with a Marantz AV7005, then the AV8801+MM8003 and an Anthem 2 channel amp, found no difference in sound quality whatsoever, though it was my subjective impression because there were no supporting measurements available at the time.

As for the recent models, say since 2016 through 2018, you shouldn't be surprised by the measurements because the only differences between the two in the audio signal chain, as mentioned many times, are the HDAMs (vs no HDAMs), and the use of different DAC reconstruction filters. Those are the two things that D+M could use as examples of D+M's claimed individual tuning.

Practically speaking such claims (the sound tuning) are 99% marketing hypes, because both teams must have the same goal, that is, let the amplifiers to just amplify the signal truthfully. The HDAM is an extra buffer stage at the end of the preamp. It is not for EQ or tone control. If done well, it should improve on measurements under certain conditions such as driving low impedance load (power amps) at high output, but from all the measurements done so far, I could not even find any evidence of Marantz's measuring better under any conditions ASR have tried. I guess if he use a test load of under 10 kOhm at above 2 or may be 3 Volts, the Marantz may come out on top, but that's not a sure thing, not until we can see some results.
 

peng

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#20
Have you ever checked the surrounds peak power relative to the front?
Yes, still trying to locate the file. Going by distant memory, they didn't even come close. People who spend big money on having the same speakers as the fronts must be very rich imo. Those speakers just make noises, albeit nice sounding noises.:D Even playing back 7.1 SACDs/DVDAs (have quite few), they don't do much, compared to the fronts. I don't doubt there could be exceptions, such as demos that highlight/emphasize the surround channels, but I don't have any of those to try.
 
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