Focal Bathys

[IAtaman]

Surprised they chose a name so close to bathos.

I was curios about the etymology of the word as well. An interesting choice. Looks like it comes from an ancient river that would be somewhere in the south east cost of Black Sea, probably what would today be Georgia (the country), and shares a root with the worth bathos which, it seems, means among other things, deep.

 

[metasharp]

Just got my own Bathys!

Some info on released firmwares.

Version 1.00 (initial release):
Product commissioning

Version 1.01 (February 2023):
Improved overall stability

Version 1.10 (March 2023):
Fixed a bug that could cause the headset to restart unintentionally
Fixed a bug that could cause a loss of audio signal when the headset is disconnected

Version 1.20 (April 2023):
Improved active noise cancellation performance

Version 1.30 (May 2023):
Added the Sidetone feature, which allows you to hear your own voice during a call

Version 1.40 (June 2023):
Improved audio quality
Added the ability to disable active noise cancellation for only the right or left ear

Version 1.50 (July 2023):
Fixed a bug that could cause instability when playing certain audio formats
Improved the accuracy of ear detection

Version 1.51 (August 2023):
Fixed a bug that could cause choppy audio when playing certain audio formats
Improved overall stability

Version 1.54 (August 2023):
Improved audio quality
Added an improved transparent listening mode
Fixed a bug that could cause instability when using the Sidetone feature

 

[chi2]

Enjoy! But personally I find it a bit disappointing that there is (still) no LDAC support. (Don't know if this is even possible just by firmware update).

 

[metasharp]

in USB it's in lossless at least, it's better than nothing

 

[chi2]

in USB it's in lossless at least, it's better than nothing

I see. But then again any cabled headphone is lossless .

 

[metasharp]

Now that I have both a DCA Stealth and a Focal Bathys I'll be able to test and see if there's any difference I can hear.

 

[Mystery Bear]

Enjoy! But personally I find it a bit disappointing that there is (still) no LDAC support. (Don't know if this is even possible just by firmware update).

Completely agree. There was some talk about the possibility of adding it but I doubt they will.

 

[metasharp]

Completely agree. There was some talk about the possibility of adding it but I doubt they will.

Get over it, it's not really needed. Update the firmware to 1.54 set eq to dynamic to match harman and enjoy. It's already super good.

 

[Mystery Bear]

Get over it, it's not really needed. Update the firmware to 1.54 set eq to dynamic to match harman and enjoy. It's already super good.

For this product and at this price point, enough people have asked for it for Focal to consider adding it. I bought them knowing they didn't have it and I accept it. I enjoy the sound quality. But from a consumer perspective, if you're trying to pitch these as the best Bluetooth headphones for music as Focal are, then they should have APTx Lossless or LDAC. Simple. Because they're not really great for anything else (travel, noise cancellation etc).

 

[metasharp]

For this product and at this price point, enough people have asked for it for Focal to consider adding it. I bought them knowing they didn't have it and I accept it. I enjoy the sound quality. But from a consumer perspective, if you're trying to pitch these as the best Bluetooth headphones for music as Focal are, then they should have APTx Lossless or LDAC. Simple. Because they're not really great for anything else (travel, noise cancellation etc).

I don't really agree. First I'm not sure you'd be able to hear any difference between LDAC and Aptx.
I personaly don't hear a difference between DAC usb lossless mode and aptx. So I don't think it would make that much of a difference. Even with the Stealth and my SOTA stack the sound is super close.
Second, I don't agree that the Bathys is not good in other areas. The microphone for calls might not be the best... but it's one of the best compared to other bluetooth flagships.
The noise cancellation is also pretty good, beaten by Sony it's true and bose maybe... but bose gives you the impression to be underwater... which i hate... and bathys don't. So bathys is better also in this area for me.

The only thing i don't like in the Bathys are:
- the unability to work in passive without turning them on
- not being able to be used while recharging
- no way to mute/unmute the microphone

And anyway LDAC is not lossless at all. Aptx Hd or aptx LL would be more interesting to add.
LDAC has 3 modes at 330, 660 and 990kbps and devices are rarely able to maintain a 990kbps link... which is not even enough to transmit a 1440kbps for uncompressed 16b/44khz signal ... neither a max compressed flac that would be around 1014kbps since 16/44 is not using 990kbps mode but 909kbps mode. The previous being reserved for 16b/48khz... and when you know that the ldac supports 32bits/96khz... how can someone think it's lossless and they invented a lossless compression that compress a music stronger than a text file.... Spoiler alert... it's not the case.

There's definitely a belief impact there vs a sound difference you would hear in a blind test between all these codecs and a wired really lossless experience.

I'm not saying the sound isn't different on the oscilloscope... but i'm saying that stating anyone hear the difference or that LDAC produces better result music wise or at least a better you can hear is not necessary true especially when in practice i've seen real world test that show most devices barely hold this codec in 330kbps most of the time.

If you check my last replies here you'll see that the Bathys is at least the closest wireless device to harman:

Best Audiophile Bluetooth headphones [2022-12-09]

Hello, I thought it'd be nice to a a summary of the available products and information we have or lack. I didn't mention below headphones that are most certainly not qualified to be the best. If I forgot anything, please mention it. Model (candidates for best) Price (2nd hand) Audio Science...

www.audiosciencereview.com

even though i couldn't find any test for the T+A and the AT flagships.

 

[Mystery Bear]

I don't really agree. First I'm not sure you'd be able to hear any difference between LDAC and Aptx.
I personaly don't hear a difference between DAC usb lossless mode and aptx. So I don't think it would make that much of a difference. Even with the Stealth and my SOTA stack the sound is super close.
Second, I don't agree that the Bathys is not good in other areas. The microphone for calls might not be the best... but it's one of the best compared to other bluetooth flagships.
The noise cancellation is also pretty good, beaten by Sony it's true and bose maybe... but bose gives you the impression to be underwater... which i hate... and bathys don't. So bathys is better also in this area for me.

The only thing i don't like in the Bathys are:
- the unability to work in passive without turning them on
- not being able to be used while recharging
- no way to mute/unmute the microphone

And anyway LDAC is not lossless at all. Aptx Hd or aptx LL would be more interesting to add.
LDAC has 3 modes at 330, 660 and 990kbps and devices are rarely able to maintain a 990kbps link... which is not even enough to transmit a 1440kbps for uncompressed 16b/44khz signal ... neither a max compressed flac that would be around 1014kbps since 16/44 is not using 990kbps mode but 909kbps mode. The previous being reserved for 16b/48khz... and when you know that the ldac supports 32bits/96khz... how can someone think it's lossless and they invented a lossless compression that compress a music stronger than a text file.... Spoiler alert... it's not the case.

There's definitely a belief impact there vs a sound difference you would hear in a blind test between all these codecs and a wired really lossless experience.

I'm not saying the sound isn't different on the oscilloscope... but i'm saying that stating anyone hear the difference or that LDAC produces better result music wise or at least a better you can hear is not necessary true especially when in practice i've seen real world test that show most devices barely hold this codec in 330kbps most of the time.

If you check my last replies here you'll see that the Bathys is at least the closest wireless device to harman:

Best Audiophile Bluetooth headphones [2022-12-09]

Hello, I thought it'd be nice to a a summary of the available products and information we have or lack. I didn't mention below headphones that are most certainly not qualified to be the best. If I forgot anything, please mention it. Model (candidates for best) Price (2nd hand) Audio Science...

www.audiosciencereview.com

even though i couldn't find any test for the T+A and the AT flagships.

Yep agree with your points, but there's a noticeable difference between AAC and LDAC on the Sony's. I can also hear a big difference between AptX and DAC mode although these are harder to compare due to volume differences (for me).

And regarding ANC, it seems you just don't like stronger ANC which is fine. I prefer the full sound isolation effect. The ANC on the Bathys sounds like a 10 year old product (QC25 or similar) to me. With Sony etc, you can usually dial back the ANC in increments of 20 until you achieve your preferred setting.

 

[metasharp]

AAC vs LDAC it's totally normal since AAC compression gives you more or les a crappy mp3.

Sony ANC doesn't give me the underwater effect. Bose does.

And regarding the Bathys, are you in 1.54? What settings do you use in the focal app? What is your bluetooth phone?

 

[Mystery Bear]

AAC vs LDAC it's totally normal since AAC compression gives you more or les a crappy mp3.

Sony ANC doesn't give me the underwater effect. Bose does.

And regarding the Bathys, are you in 1.54? What settings do you use in the focal app? What is your bluetooth phone?

Yes, I'm in version 1.54 for the Bathys.

My EQ setting is currently on Dynamic which I understand is closer to the Harman curve.

My main phone is (unfortunately, for the Bathys) a Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 5 which does not support the newer AptX codecs but does support LDAC. My other phone is an iPhone 14 which is also pretty useless in this respect. So with the Bathys, I believe I'm limited to AptX or AAC which isn't ideal (I know this is equally Samsung and Apple's fault)

 

[metasharp]

Your phone just supports SBC from what I saw online. That might be the issue.

Most common Bluetooth audio codecs:

Codec Name	Bitrate (kbps)	Bits per Sample	Frequency (kHz)	Specificities
SBC	192-345	16	44.1 or 48	Basic, widely supported
AAC	250-320	16	44.1 or 48	High-quality, iOS preferred
aptX	352	16	44.1 or 48	Low latency, good quality (requires aptX support)
aptX HD	576	24	44.1 or 48	High-definition, lower latency (requires aptX HD support)
LDAC	330-990	24-32	44.1, 48, or 96	High-res audio, adjustable quality (requires LDAC support)
AAC-ELD	250-320	16	44.1 or 48	Enhanced Low Delay, low latency

 

[Mystery Bear]

Your phone just supports SBC from what I saw online. That might be the issue.

Most common Bluetooth audio codecs:

Codec Name	Bitrate (kbps)	Bits per Sample	Frequency (kHz)	Specificities
SBC	192-345	16	44.1 or 48	Basic, widely supported
AAC	250-320	16	44.1 or 48	High-quality, iOS preferred
aptX	352	16	44.1 or 48	Low latency, good quality (requires aptX support)
aptX HD	576	24	44.1 or 48	High-definition, lower latency (requires aptX HD support)
LDAC	330-990	24-32	44.1, 48, or 96	High-res audio, adjustable quality (requires LDAC support)
AAC-ELD	250-320	16	44.1 or 48	Enhanced Low Delay, low latency

I believe the Samsung supports SBC, AAC, aptX, SSC and LDAC, the only higher bitrate option of which is LDAC.

 

[metasharp]

bitrate is not a 1 to 1 comparison. the compression algo plays also a big role

 

[Mystery Bear]

bitrate is not a 1 to 1 comparison. the compression algo plays also a big role

I agree

 

[metasharp]

I asked google bard and it said :

The Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 5 supports the following Bluetooth codecs:

• SBC (Subband Codec)
• AAC (Advanced Audio Coding)
• aptX
• aptX HD
• aptX Adaptive
• Samsung Scalable Codec (SSC)

SBC is the most basic Bluetooth codec and is supported by all Bluetooth devices. It offers good sound quality, but not the best. AAC is a higher quality codec that is supported by most smartphones and tablets. aptX is a high-quality codec developed by Qualcomm that offers CD-quality audio. aptX HD is an even higher quality codec that offers lossless audio. aptX Adaptive is a newer codec that can adapt to the quality of the Bluetooth connection to ensure the best possible sound quality. SSC is a proprietary codec developed by Samsung that offers high-quality audio with low latency.

The best Bluetooth codec to use will depend on your headphones or speakers and the device you are using them with. If you are using high-quality headphones, you may want to use a higher quality codec like aptX HD or aptX Adaptive. If you are using a more basic device, SBC may be sufficient.

But you can check in Focal Naim android app what is the codec used when playing music anyway.

 

[metasharp]

I asked chat gpt for a codecs summary:

Bluetooth audio codecs play a critical role in determining the quality of wireless audio transmission. Several Bluetooth codecs are available, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Below is an in-depth comparison of the most common Bluetooth codecs, considering various studies and their impact on audio quality:

1. SBC (Low Complexity Subband Coding):
- Bitrate: 192-320 kbps (adaptive).
- Quality: Basic audio quality, suitable for most casual listening scenarios.
- Studies: SBC is the default codec for Bluetooth, and while it's considered a low-complexity codec, its performance can vary depending on the implementation. Studies have shown that SBC can provide acceptable audio quality for many users, but it may struggle with complex music genres and high bitrates.

2. AAC (Advanced Audio Coding):
- Bitrate: 250-320 kbps (adaptive).
- Quality: Generally better than SBC, with good support for iOS devices.
- Studies: AAC is known for its efficient compression and high-quality audio transmission. It's particularly well-suited for Apple devices, as iOS devices use AAC as their primary codec. Studies have demonstrated that AAC can provide excellent audio quality, especially when paired with high-quality headphones or speakers.

3. AptX (and AptX HD):
- Bitrate (AptX): 352 kbps (fixed).
- Bitrate (AptX HD): 576 kbps (fixed).
- Quality (AptX): Superior to SBC and AAC, with low latency.
- Quality (AptX HD): High-resolution audio with even better quality.
- Studies: AptX and AptX HD are proprietary codecs developed by Qualcomm. Research and user experiences indicate that these codecs offer high-quality audio with minimal latency, making them great choices for audiophiles and gamers. AptX HD, in particular, is known for its ability to transmit high-resolution audio.

4. LDAC (Low Latency Audio Codec):
- Bitrate: Variable, up to 990 kbps (adaptive).
- Quality: High-quality audio, especially with high bitrates.
- Studies: LDAC, developed by Sony, is designed to support high-resolution audio. Studies have shown that LDAC can deliver excellent audio quality, particularly when using the highest available bitrates. It's considered one of the top choices for audiophiles who want the best wireless audio experience.

5. AAC vs. aptX vs. LDAC:
- In comparative studies, LDAC often outperforms AAC and aptX in terms of audio quality, especially when using higher bitrates. However, the difference in quality may not be noticeable on average consumer headphones.
- Users with Apple devices may prefer AAC for its native support and compatibility.
- Audiophiles or users with high-end headphones may lean towards aptX or LDAC for their superior audio quality, provided their devices support these codecs.

6. Codec Compatibility:
- The codec you experience depends on both your source device (e.g., smartphone, laptop) and your headphones/speakers. For the best experience, both the source and playback devices should support the same high-quality codec.

7. Environmental Factors:
- Environmental factors, such as interference and distance from the source device, can also impact audio quality regardless of the codec used. Bluetooth 5.0 and later versions have improved on these issues.

In conclusion, the choice of Bluetooth codec can significantly affect audio quality, but it's not the sole factor. The quality of your headphones or speakers, the bitrate at which the codec operates, and the compatibility of your devices also play crucial roles. Studies generally support the idea that higher-bitrate codecs like LDAC can provide superior audio quality, but individual preferences and the specific use case should guide your choice of codec.

 

[Mystery Bear]

I asked google bard and it said :

The Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 5 supports the following Bluetooth codecs:

• SBC (Subband Codec)
• AAC (Advanced Audio Coding)
• aptX
• aptX HD
• aptX Adaptive
• Samsung Scalable Codec (SSC)

SBC is the most basic Bluetooth codec and is supported by all Bluetooth devices. It offers good sound quality, but not the best. AAC is a higher quality codec that is supported by most smartphones and tablets. aptX is a high-quality codec developed by Qualcomm that offers CD-quality audio. aptX HD is an even higher quality codec that offers lossless audio. aptX Adaptive is a newer codec that can adapt to the quality of the Bluetooth connection to ensure the best possible sound quality. SSC is a proprietary codec developed by Samsung that offers high-quality audio with low latency.

The best Bluetooth codec to use will depend on your headphones or speakers and the device you are using them with. If you are using high-quality headphones, you may want to use a higher quality codec like aptX HD or aptX Adaptive. If you are using a more basic device, SBC may be sufficient.

But you can check in Focal Naim android app what is the codec used when playing music anyway.

Thank you, but it does not support AptX HD or Adapative. Thus my original comment that LDAC would be nice to have.