First amp recommendation?

[polio407]

So I'm looking for a first amp/dac, and seen a lot of recomendations its making me confused on what to get! I'm planning on getting a dt 1990 once it goes on sale and would like a good/future proof amp to be able to power it. I've seen everything from JDS atom, asguard 3, sml sp200, mass drop liquid carbon x. I want something that would power these headphones and get good sound but also allow me if in the future i want a higher spec phone to be able to handle it. I prefer to save money but dont mind spending a little extra if it will future proof me more or give me more options. Any advice is appreciated and thank you for your time, sorry if this is a reduant question!

 

[Jimbob54]

If you can get Drop products without excessive shipping / customs, then the THX789 at $300 pretty much sorts you. If you never want XLR/ balanced connections, JDS Atom or Schiit Heresy. Maybe the Geshelli Archel 2.5

I own all but the Heresy, not a bad one amongst them . Personally, the Archel 2.5 is a gem.

EDIT- do you want a DAC/AMP combo or a DAC and a Headphone Amp - sorry, I gave you only HPA recs.

The new Schiit Modius DAC or even the old SMSL SU8 DAC paired with the THX 789 are pretty unstoppable.

 

[polio407]

If you can get Drop products without excessive shipping / customs, then the THX789 at $300 pretty much sorts you. If you never want XLR/ balanced connections, JDS Atom or Schiit Heresy. Maybe the Geshelli Archel 2.5

I own all but the Heresy, not a bad one amongst them . Personally, the Archel 2.5 is a gem.

EDIT- do you want a DAC/AMP combo or a DAC and a Headphone Amp - sorry, I gave you only HPA recs.

The new Schiit Modius DAC or even the old SMSL SU8 DAC paired with the THX 789 are pretty unstoppable.

Thanks. I would order the THX789 but that drop seems to take forever! It's 320 on amazon tho if thats worth the price? I'm looking for both DAC and a AMP. Figured the AMP would be most important. Hows the new schiit modius compared to the modi 3? With the DAC I would like a optical cable so I could also connect it to my ps4/xbox.

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks. I would order the THX789 but that drop seems to take forever! It's 320 on amazon tho if thats worth the price? I'm looking for both DAC and a AMP. Figured the AMP would be most important. Hows the new schiit modius compared to the modi 3? With the DAC I would like a optical cable so I could also connect it to my ps4/xbox.

Most DACs above the basic Topping D10/ Atom DAC etc will have optical as well as USB- very few have optical but not USB.

If you dont want balanced connections or headphone out - the Modi , the Topping e30 etc DAC are fine. Likewise, the heresy/ atom amp/ upcoming Topping L30 will be great.

THX789 is worth it if you want the XLR output (and piece of mind you are pretty much still state of the art) Cheaper options above (and others ) if you just want single ended. Plenty of options to get you where you want to get. For me , to balance or not balance is the key driver on whether you are spending $200-$300 all in and $400-$500 all in.

Others may disagree.

 

[polio407]

Most DACs above the basic Topping D10/ Atom DAC etc will have optical as well as USB- very few have optical but not USB.

If you dont want balanced connections or headphone out - the Modi , the Topping e30 etc DAC are fine. Likewise, the heresy/ atom amp/ upcoming Topping L30 will be great.

THX789 is worth it if you want the XLR output (and piece of mind you are pretty much still state of the art) Cheaper options above (and others ) if you just want single ended. Plenty of options to get you where you want to get. For me , to balance or not balance is the key driver on whether you are spending $200-$300 all in and $400-$500 all in.

Others may disagree.

Thanks for the clarification! To be honest I didn't really understand balanced vs unbalanced, but after further reading I will probably only ever need unbalanced source I think?

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks for the clarification! To be honest I didn't really understand balanced vs unbalanced, but after further reading I will probably only ever need unbalanced source I think?

People that know what they are talking about on here (or I hope they do) suggest balanced for headphones is something of a none issue if the amp has enough power single ended (all quoted should do) . Balanced (XLR ) between DAC and AMP can prevent ground loops (look them up on here ) . But I dont think there are many HPAs that have xlr in that dont have balanced out too.

Not a call anyone else can make for you really but you should be pretty sorted with single ended throughout (unbalanced). The one thing I would say is there is little point in the 789 if never going to use balanced output.

 

[3125b]

Drop just came out with an unbalanced version of the THX 789 (called DROP + THX AAA ONE) for 149$, wich doesn't seem too bad either. Might be an option to consider if it makes sense logistically.

Balanced would be worth it if you are going to use active monitors or any other components, that lead to more than one grounded (recognizable by the three prong mains plug) unit being electrically connected (like USB, RCA, Aux etc., but not Toslink) in one circuit.

A reasonably high powered single-ended headphone amp with low output impedance and otherwise decent mesured performance should absolutely do the trick, you don't need to spend a lot of money necessarily.
The 1990 Pro in particular isn't all that hard to drive despite it's 250 Ohm impedance due to fairly high sensitivity, any of the usual recommendations (JDS Atom amp, Schiit Magni Heresy, Archel2 Pro, Topping L30 [when it comes out] etc.) easily does the trick.

As far as the DAC is concerned, there are a bunch of good options as well. For me, there wasn‘t really an audible difference between the Apple dongle and my current Topping E30 - just as the measurements would suggest, both are audibly transparent. For me, the features make all the difference between all these well performing low cost desktop USB DACs.
Especially when using an amp with analog volume control (and not <1x gain) a DAC with volume control can be very much worth it, since you can lower the volume below what the analog pot would usefully allow without losing (markedly) dynamic or destroying the channel balance.

 

[VMAT4]

Any of the suggested amps seem fine. The current hot DAC is the Topping E30 at $130 by my estimation. So, about $230 for an E30 and a JDS Atom to about $280 for the THX AAA ONE. I use an Atom with a Topping D10.

 

[kn0ppers]

Spec wise there are many great headamps for little money. I would worry about what kind of power supply you want, if an external brick is okay or you like IEC Connection to the SMSL better for example. Apart from that, I suggest supporting local manufacturing as much as you can, you will likely also get better customer support with a more local manufacturer.

 

[murraycamp]

These responses exemplify why I like this site so much. No BS, straight forward, actionable, and engineering-grounded advice. Nary a mention of "air," "slam," "bloom," or "PRaT." Well done indeed.

 

[polio407]

Drop just came out with an unbalanced version of the THX 789 (called DROP + THX AAA ONE) for 149$, wich doesn't seem too bad either. Might be an option to consider if it makes sense logistically.

Balanced would be worth it if you are going to use active monitors or any other components, that lead to more than one grounded (recognizable by the three prong mains plug) unit being electrically connected (like USB, RCA, Aux etc., but not Toslink) in one circuit.

A reasonably high powered single-ended headphone amp with low output impedance and otherwise decent mesured performance should absolutely do the trick, you don't need to spend a lot of money necessarily.
The 1990 Pro in particular isn't all that hard to drive despite it's 250 Ohm impedance due to fairly high sensitivity, any of the usual recommendations (JDS Atom amp, Schiit Magni Heresy, Archel2 Pro, Topping L30 [when it comes out] etc.) easily does the trick.

As far as the DAC is concerned, there are a bunch of good options as well. For me, there wasn‘t really an audible difference between the Apple dongle and my current Topping E30 - just as the measurements would suggest, both are audibly transparent. For me, the features make all the difference between all these well performing low cost desktop USB DACs.
Especially when using an amp with analog volume control (and not <1x gain) a DAC with volume control can be very much worth it, since you can lower the volume below what the analog pot would usefully allow without losing (markedly) dynamic or destroying the channel balance.

Yeah I've seen that drop today but the release date is spring 2021! I'm considering just splurging as I know I will immediately look for the next upgrade if i get the atoms. Is there a general conscious on the SMSL sp-200 vs the mass drop thx 789? There's a $60 difference between the two.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yeah I've seen that drop today but the release date is spring 2021! I'm considering just splurging as I know I will immediately look for the next upgrade if i get the atoms. Is there a general conscious on the SMSL sp-200 vs the mass drop thx 789? There's a $60 difference between the two.

Get the 789. Better made, better looking. Not wonky.

I think the main criticism I see is of the gain selections on the SP-200. If you have sensitive phones (the DT1990 isnt) you struggle to find a comfortable volume level with headroom. But scan the review thread on here.

 

[polio407]

Get the 789. Better made, better looking. Not wonky.

sounds good! How does the topping D50s stack with the 789? I see its currently on Massdrop or am I better with the new modius?

 

[Jimbob54]

sounds good! How does the topping D50s stack with the 789? I see its currently on Massdrop or am I better with the new modius?

D50 smaller footprint so would have to go on top or to side. I think you need to make your own decision as to what is better for you. The least important should be "sound" - all mentioned should sound audibly the same and transparent. But the D50s and Modius are different. Single ended only , remote, volume control Vs balanced , no remote, no volume control. Key factors for me in a DAC:

Remote (and by implication, controllable volume)
Pre-amp (per above)
XLR and RCA outputs
well measuring
USB, coax and optical inputs

Other considerations for DACs- DSD capable, MQA capable and of course appearance, build etc

 

[3125b]

I‘d agree, the SP-200 seems riddled with problems, plus it seems to be very noisy with highly sensitive headphones like IEMs. The THX 789 might also not be the best choice for that, but certainly better.
The Modius does have balanced outputs, but no controls or anything at all, the D50S has a lot of features but no balanced outputs - if you want that, the E30 seems a cheaper yet comparable choice.
If you want some controls and balanced outputs you could go with the Sonocz ... something (who thought that name was a good idea?) tested here a short while ago.

 

[polio407]

D50 smaller footprint so would have to go on top or to side. I think you need to make your own decision as to what is better for you. The least important should be "sound" - all mentioned should sound audibly the same and transparent. But the D50s and Modius are different. Single ended only , remote, volume control Vs balanced , no remote, no volume control. Key factors for me in a DAC:

Remote (and by implication, controllable volume)
Pre-amp (per above)
XLR and RCA outputs
well measuring
USB, coax and optical inputs

Other considerations for DACs- DSD capable, MQA capable and of course appearance, build etc

I‘d agree, the SP-200 seems riddled with problems, plus it seems to be very noisy with highly sensitive headphones like IEMs. The THX 789 might also not be the best choice for that, but certainly better.
The Modius does have balanced outputs, but no controls or anything at all, the D50S has a lot of features but no balanced outputs - if you want that, the E30 seems a cheaper yet comparable choice.
If you want some controls and balanced outputs you could go with the Sonocz ... something (who thought that name was a good idea?) tested here a short while ago.

Sonocz seems nice but a little too expensive for me. You say the sp-200 riddled with problems, what about its accompany dac the SMSL M200 DAC? What a rabbit hole this can be haha but I do appreciate all the responses and considerations!

 

[3125b]

I don‘t know anything about the M200, I do however have some first hand experience with the Sanskrit 10th MKII - wich is a bit of a mixed bag. Sounds absolutely fine as expected, the aluminium case is nice, the remote is ok (comes from the same factory as the one Topping uses, they are very similar). Usability ... let‘s say it works with the standard windows drivers for the most part.
The display doesn‘t always indicate the selected sample rate correctly, the remote tends to disconnect (in wich case you just need to press a button, so no big deal but can be annoying), doesn‘t work with the drivers supplied by SMSL on their website, doesn‘t support 768kHz according to the manual despite what the marketing says (not that Windows would anyway) - in short: despite the performance, it‘s a bit of a hack job.
Mine was an early unit and I don‘t know how representative that is for the Sanskrit, let alone for the M200, but seeing my E30, I have to say that it seems quite a bit more thought out. The only fault I could find with that one is that the remote is curved a bit (doesn‘t make a difference, it works well).

 

[polio407]

I don‘t know anything about the M200, I do however have some first hand experience with the Sanskrit 10th MKII - wich is a bit of a mixed bag. Sounds absolutely fine as expected, the aluminium case is nice, the remote is ok (comes from the same factory as the one Topping uses, they are very similar). Usability ... let‘s say it works with the standard windows drivers for the most part.
The display doesn‘t always indicate the selected sample rate correctly, the remote tends to disconnect (in wich case you just need to press a button, so no big deal but can be annoying), doesn‘t work with the drivers supplied by SMSL on their website, doesn‘t support 768kHz according to the manual despite what the marketing says (not that Windows would anyway) - in short: despite the performance, it‘s a bit of a hack job.
Mine was an early unit and I don‘t know how representative that is for the Sanskrit, let alone for the M200, but seeing my E30, I have to say that it seems quite a bit more thought out. The only fault I could find with that one is that the remote is curved a bit (doesn‘t make a difference, it works well).

Thanks. I've looked through the review thread and seems the e30 is really a great dac for the price. Right now I'm thinking of just going with a jds atom lab or Geshelli 2.5 and a e30 combo to save money. I still dont have a quite understanding on balanced vs unbalanced and would seem not money well spent for my use.

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks. I've looked through the review thread and seems the e30 is really a great dac for the price. Right now I'm thinking of just going with a jds atom lab or Geshelli 2.5 and a e30 combo to save money. I still dont have a quite understanding on balanced vs unbalanced and would seem not money well spent for my use.

If you are only getting a single ended dac, the geshelli Archel 2 (point 0, not 5) makes more sense. The point of the 2.5 is that it has xlr inputs. Get the e30 and atom amp and be happy

 

[3125b]

For 228$ that is a great combo, it's what I have and I'm very happy with.
The Atom does have the advantage of the preamp outputs over the Archel2 Pro - it's cheaper as well.
A balanced combo would be at lot more expensive for the same performance.