This audiophile-sprout needs a reality check and DAC and AMP recommendations

[Robhimself]

This is my first post, so I apologize for all the wrong things I might do.

I already have the Schiit Asgard 3 with the 'True multibit DAC module' , but it struggles with Windows 10 and USB on my PC.
But I've also realized I want more features and connection options, and maybe also get something that might be a little more "future proof" too.

At the moment I mainly use headphones, but the option to connect to speakers later in the future would be awesome.
And my current headphones are the beyerdynamic DT 1770 and 1990 pros. (Yes, they used to be harsh when using for longer periods )

From what I've gathered I should just get equipment that produces a 'clean' output, and start learning how to EQ every headphone to my personal preference and enjoyment.
I started looking at Topping DX3 Pro+, and then went down the list to the more expensive toppings. And I was really close to buying the DX9...

So now I'm here asking for some feedback, since I think I am going down a path where I begin to waste more money than what is necessary - especially since I should also look into new (different) headphones too.

I am open to a dac/amp stack too, but I do find the AIO solutions visually pleasing on my desktop.


Current budget I "allow" myself is around 1500$, but preferably less - since this puts me closer to Sennheiser HD800S that I have my eyes on.

The features I think I "need":

- Lots of digital inputs.
- Output options too!
- Bluetooth, cause why not - I might want to quickly listen to something from my phone.
- A low noise/distortion
- and decent power for what ever I want to drive in a decade or two?
- A paraEQ(?) could be cool, but I could also use software since I most likely will always use my PC as the source.

 

[Timcognito]

Fanboy of this all in one

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - miniDSP SHD Power Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagehifi.com

 

[LTig]

RME ADI-2 DAC.

 

[kemmler3D]

The main question is which digital inputs you need?

Something like the Topping DX5 will do well for pretty much any 2.0 or 2.1 system and most headphones, but it doesn't have a ton of digital connectivity. For HP amps you can get something from JDS or Schiit and do well, and then for power amps, it depends on what speakers you will be using, but there are plenty of good Hypex or Purifi-based solutions that are fairly future-proof within your budget.

For EQ, you'll probably want to go MiniDSP or PC, unless you enjoy DIY type stuff in which case there are Raspberry Pi and/or Sharc -based solutions.

 

[Chagall]

Welcome to ASR!

It isn't easy to give a recommendation that checks all the boxes.

RME ADi-2 DAC is a great DAC, it has PEQ (only 5 bands) and is a great preamp. But it's not the most powerful headphone amp, think is only single-ended.
AIOs are usually jack of all trades, masters of none. DX9 is expensive for what it is IMO.
Topping E70/L70 has all the power you will ever need for headphones and it's a preamp. I use the stack with HD800s along with Roon. EQ is in Roon.

So it really depends on what you value most.

PS. speakers you get in the future, are you set on passives? Or are you willing to go active speakers?

 

[Chrispy]

How does your gear struggle with W10 and usb?

 

[DVDdoug]

How does your gear struggle with W10 and usb?

I'm also wondering what "struggle" means....

If you can't get loud enough, you may need a different DAC with a "bigger" headphone amp, an additional headphone amp, or more sensitive headphones.

If you are getting "digital glitches", that's most-likely a problem with your computer and you need to find out what's interrupting the audio.

- Lots of digital inputs.
- Output options too!

Usually the easiest & cheapest way to get multiple inputs & outputs is with an audio/video receiver, but it's bulky for a desktop.

- A low noise/distortion

Distortion shouldn't be audible with anything unless you over-drive an amplifier into clipping. Or when you boost with digital EQ you can get digital clipping if you don't use the "preamp" setting to attenuate and compensate for the overall boost.

Audible noise is rare too, except it can sometimes happens with sensitive headphones or a noisy soundcard.

 

[Dunring]

If the Topping DX5 or SMSL DL200 fits your connection options, they're great value and make a terrific DAC to add an amplifier to down the road if you want more power. I use a DL200 as a DAC and sometimes amplifier, since it outputs 5 volts and any amplifier will fit on tops it like the Topping A90 or SMSL SP400 which can benefit from the added voltage. I'm testing out an SMSL SP400 that came in today, it's a full size amp and sits on top really well. An A90 is the same size width-wise. I wouldn't worry much about future proofing though, so many good things are free of distortion, so there's nowhere to go except a lower noise floor in the 50mv test. With FLAC files it's as good as you can get.

 

[Robhimself]

Fanboy of this all in one

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - miniDSP SHD Power Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagehifi.com

Thanks, I'll give it a read! I have seen the name mentioned several times here on ASR, but sometimes its hard to have the time to check all the devices mentioned to see if its relevant to my wants and needs

 

[Robhimself]

The main question is which digital inputs you need?

Something like the Topping DX5 will do well for pretty much any 2.0 or 2.1 system and most headphones, but it doesn't have a ton of digital connectivity. For HP amps you can get something from JDS or Schiit and do well, and then for power amps, it depends on what speakers you will be using, but there are plenty of good Hypex or Purifi-based solutions that are fairly future-proof within your budget.

For EQ, you'll probably want to go MiniDSP or PC, unless you enjoy DIY type stuff in which case there are Raspberry Pi and/or Sharc -based solutions.

I don't have a fixed number and types. But currently I only have USB, which is giving me trouble.
So adding optical, coax, spdif would be awesome. I've read that IIS / I2S is decent, but since I don't have the output-source for it it would just be a nice placeholder.
Basically more than just USB. Other than that each type is "nice to have" and not a "must have".

 

[Robhimself]

How does your gear struggle with W10 and usb?

Oh, dont even get me started...

I made a post on reddit earlier today, before I signed up and made this post. So I'll copy/paste the same rant I wrote there....

Current DAC and USB issues:
First of all, my Schiit Asgard 3 started out as a perfect device without any issues, other than getting hot during the summer. Then I had to turn it off/on after reboots or shutdowns.

Second of all, my PC currently have two separate M.2-drives which dual boots Windows10 and Arch Linux. And WITHOUT changing anything, Linux manages to find and treat my DAC as a Plug 'n' Play device every time! Whilst Windows10's progression of hoops I had to jump through has gotten worse and worse.

So! Remember that! With every cable, usb-port and sequence of starting and/or unplugging - Linux handles it fine, and Windows doesn't.

My history of troubleshooting:

• Turning it off and on. #Worked in the start, then it didnt.
• Various attempts at turning it off, unplugging, plug it back in and turn it on. With several tips of which amount of time I should wait until I either plug it in, or turn it on or visa versa. #Worked for a while, then it didn't.
• Try different USB ports. And also ONLY use USB 2.0. #Some times it worked, others it didn't. And some of this might be true, because at the moment whenever I use a USB 2.0 my PC don't even respons when I plug it in. While when I try a USB 3.0 I get the error: 'Unknown device: failed to reset port'.
• Get a powered USB HUB. #Worked at first, then it didn't.
• Try different cables, was told especially AUDIO GRADED ( and sometimes NEVER AUDIO GRADED ).
• Update Windows
• Update USB drivers
• Update BIOS
• Update Chip/Motherboard drivers and firmware
• Uninstall USB drivers and restart
• Unplug device, uninstall USB drivers and restart then plug back in.
• Uninstall Realtek HD Audio drivers
• Reinstall C-MEDIA drivers
• Created a new Windows account and logged in to it.
• Reinstalled Windows 10 - 2 times!
• GET THE DAC NICE AND WARM before plugging it in and turning it on - this was my way of trying the infamous "hair dryer"-trick that work on several Schiit DACs for other people. Insane...
• I even purchased a PCIe adapter with USB, but I don't have the motivation to install it - now I just use my old ASUS Strix Raid Pro card. And once in a blue moon when I use this and turn on my DAC, lo and behold! Guess who decided to get recognized by Windows! My Asgard 3.

And did a lot of research into USB and Audio Drivers since that is what I have boiled it all down to. Just see what I wrote in bold above the list of troubleshooting-history, and tell me I'm wrong about my deduction.


So before I buy a new computer that have more digital outputs than just USB that I currently have, and all my issues are windows-related, I just want to get new gear with input/output options I dont currently have.

I even forgot to mention I got desperate and bought a AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable, just in case it could fix the errors.

 

[Robhimself]

I'm also wondering what "struggle" means....

I replied to this to the comment above your, so dont want to fill the whole page with a double reply

Usually the easiest & cheapest way to get multiple inputs & outputs is with an audio/video receiver, but it's bulky for a desktop.

I have actually thought about this. But like you said, my home office is tiny, and desktop space is even smaller!

Distortion shouldn't be audible with anything unless you over-drive an amplifier into clipping. Or when you boost with digital EQ you can get digital clipping if you don't use the "preamp" setting to attenuate and compensate for the overall boost.

Audible noise is rare too, except it can sometimes happens with sensitive headphones or a noisy soundcard.

I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to electricity, power and all that. So when I say I want something less noisy, I mean that I have a clear hum coming from the Asgard 3 when not listening to anything. Even on low gain. And then Im not really cranking the volume knob. I usually have 100% volum on PC, and the amp stays on 50% on low gain, and 25-30% on high gain.

For all I know, all my USB and connectivity issues might stem from some weird voltage/current stuff in my PC. Or even grounding related stuff.

 

[kemmler3D]

Oh, dont even get me started...

I made a post on reddit earlier today, before I signed up and made this post. So I'll copy/paste the same rant I wrote there....





I even forgot to mention I got desperate and bought a AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable, just in case it could fix the errors.

If it behaves perfectly with Linux and not with Windows, it seems like maybe there is some kind of problem with your windows USB controller driver. It sounds like you've tried everything I could possibly suggest, so it might just be a defective driver. Maybe it conflicts with the Schiit unit.

I say trade the Audioquest USB cable for another DAC to see if it's the USB driver or the DAC that's at fault.

However, since you also say it's got audible hum, either something is wrong with your DAC, or your power, or both.

If you only plan to use your DAC with a PC, ultimately optical / coax inputs are probably redundant. If you ever upgrade your PC, I assume your USB woes will be behind you.

 

[Robhimself]

If the Topping DX5 or SMSL DL200 fits your connection options, they're great value and make a terrific DAC to add an amplifier to down the road if you want more power. I use a DL200 as a DAC and sometimes amplifier, since it outputs 5 volts and any amplifier will fit on tops it like the Topping A90 or SMSL SP400 which can benefit from the added voltage. I'm testing out an SMSL SP400 that came in today, it's a full size amp and sits on top really well. An A90 is the same size width-wise. I wouldn't worry much about future proofing though, so many good things are free of distortion, so there's nowhere to go except a lower noise floor in the 50mv test. With FLAC files it's as good as you can get.

View attachment 339964

Yeah, the DX5 was where I first started. It got great reviews here and ticked most of my boxes with regards to digital inputs. And price-wise it also would let me get a Sennheiser HD6XX or even let me get the HD800S with a little extra money added.

But then I made the mistake and read about the DX7, which were even better. And the new, unreviewed DX9 is an even bigger flagship.
So I had to stop, step back and think some more.

If I can EQ to my likeing, and get a DAC that is pure/clean like what most toppings measure(I hope I understood these technical parts of the reviews), maybe something like the DX5 is fine now, and for years to come? If HD800S is what I want next, my wife would probably not approve of the upgrade after that one, hehe.

 

[Chrispy]

Oh, dont even get me started...

I made a post on reddit earlier today, before I signed up and made this post. So I'll copy/paste the same rant I wrote there....





I even forgot to mention I got desperate and bought a AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable, just in case it could fix the errors.

Not a computer guy but Fraudioquest is never a solution.

 

[Robhimself]

If it behaves perfectly with Linux and not with Windows, it seems like maybe there is some kind of problem with your windows USB controller driver. It sounds like you've tried everything I could possibly suggest, so it might just be a defective driver. Maybe it conflicts with the Schiit unit.

hehe yes, with every windows update my USB issues got worse and worse.
This also got me thinking about finding a DAC with its own driver from the manufacturer, just to counteract the "amazing Windows plug'n'play UAC1/2. However I would prefer stuff just working.

I say trade the Audioquest USB cable for another DAC to see if it's the USB driver or the DAC that's at fault.

Hopefully I get a nice dose of placebo from this cable, and these kind of purchases sting and teaches me a lesson

However, since you also say it's got audible hum, either something is wrong with your DAC, or your power, or both.

If you only plan to use your DAC with a PC, ultimately optical / coax inputs are probably redundant. If you ever upgrade your PC, I assume your USB woes will be behind you.

Yes, the hum is definitely annoying. If some of the theories that float around here and there are correct, the Schiit's "Hair dryer" trick that works for many people might do so because they think some connectors inside the USB module isnt touching, but with some heat applied to the unit a connection is made because of expansion...

The internet is crazy...

Is optical and coax really that bad? I thought optical were basically interference-free? I see that USB wins over optical when it comes to sample rates etc.

 

[JaMaSt]

I mean that I have a clear hum coming from the Asgard 3 when not listening to anything.

Do you have the USB plugged into your motherboard rear panel? Have you tried using a USB port from your front panel (usually located at the front of the computer near the on/off switch)?

Edit. Just read your previous post. Try optical if you have it. It should not hum if your computer is the cause.

Edit 2. Oops, just checked and Asgard doesn't have opti in.

 

[kemmler3D]

But then I made the mistake and read about the DX7, which were even better. And the new, unreviewed DX9 is an even bigger flagship.
So I had to stop, step back and think some more.

If I can EQ to my likeing, and get a DAC that is pure/clean like what most toppings measure(I hope I understood these technical parts of the reviews), maybe something like the DX5 is fine now, and for years to come?

In this tier of DACs you really only need to worry about features, inputs/outputs, and whether the headphone output meets your needs.

If the DX5 does what you want it to do, don't spend more. You will not achieve any better sound by going higher.

Nobody on earth that can hear the difference in noise/distortion between the DX5, DX7 and DX9 in a normal listening test. The DX5 is already at 122dB SINAD.

A 122dB difference is the same as the size difference between a full-size olympic swimming pool and a 2L bottle of soda. (2.5M L vs. 2) In other words, once you reach the level of DX5, perfection is achieved for all normal use cases. Unless you think you could taste the difference between pool water with one bottle of cola in it, and without.

 

[Robhimself]

Not a computer guy but Fraudioquest is never a solution.

hehe, I currently work with code and filter out data to then repackage it in new files - on a byte level. So I have tried to create some .wav-files and adding simple numbered values to create tones based on their frequency. Therefor I later realized that as long as the data that passes through a cable dont suffer from packet/data loss, the darn cable "grade" should not matter.

If I only did this prior to being recommended that brand.

 

[kemmler3D]

I later realized that as long as the data that passes through a cable dont suffer from packet/data loss, the darn cable "grade" should not matter.

If I only did this prior to being recommended that brand.

Some people spend their many years and tens of thousands of dollars before they figure this out... some never do. The same people that have never had a penny go missing in online banking, or a single letter in their emails, are convinced their WAV file needs extra-special comfy cozy padded cables to make it to their DAC.

Consider it a win that they only got you once.