Evolution of Speaker / Electronics Ratio

[watchnerd]

20 years ago, $1500 bought you a Celestion SL-600, with stands.

You probably needed at least the same amount, if not double that, in matching electronics to be able to drive the inefficient SL-600 sufficiently well. Call it another $1500-3000.

Today, for $300, you can get a pair of ELAC B6 or JBL LSR305 that aren't just better values, they're measurably better speakers.

Can you match a $300 speaker today with $300 in electronics / source (total $600) and get something that beats a $3000 system from 20 years ago?

 

[iridium]

Just to be careful, the following should be taken lightly with a huge grain of salt:

To answer your question, very easy $300 speaker + $300 electronics to beat $3000, but you must be willing to spend at least $50,000.00 on a loom of MasterBuilt cables [please do not forget the power cables; that last 5 feet after the initial miles of other cable makes a monster difference].

iridium.

 

[watchnerd]

Just to be careful, the following should be taken lightly with a huge grain of salt:

To answer your question, very easy $300 speaker + $300 electronics to beat $3000, but you must be willing to spend at least $50,000.00 on a loom of MasterBuilt cables [please do not forget the power cables; that last 5 feet after the initial miles of other cable makes a monster difference].

iridium.

$75 server-grade UPS solves that problem.

 

[iridium]

Shoot, I wish I had the brains to think of that.
My wife is going to be pissed.
Maybe I can wrap these things around the Christmas tree & she will not notice.

iridium.

 

[amirm]

$300 for all electronics is a bit tough. The only thing that fits would be an audio/video receiver (AVR). It would have the DAC and amplification but still no source.

 

[RayDunzl]

$300 for all electronics is a bit tough. The only thing that fits would be an audio/video receiver (AVR). It would have the DAC and amplification but still no source.

Active speakers and a dirt-cheap dac would fit if you bend the rules a little.

I have one of these now on sale for $21.99 (I paid $23.99):

USB in and Toslink/Coax/Analog out, even has a headphone jack.

The digital outs work fine. I haven't tried the analog, as it was not purchased for that function.

Add $399 active speakers, it comes in at $420 total here not counting source digits.

Figuring 1/2 of the price of the speakers for "electronics" that makes the electronics bill $221 without source.

---

As for beating my dinosaur system, I vote no, based on the speakers. Unfair since it was more than $3000, though. Oh well.

 

[fas42]

Just to be careful, the following should be taken lightly with a huge grain of salt:

To answer your question, very easy $300 speaker + $300 electronics to beat $3000, but you must be willing to spend at least $50,000.00 on a loom of MasterBuilt cables [please do not forget the power cables; that last 5 feet after the initial miles of other cable makes a monster difference].

iridium.

Keep in mind that the MasterBuilt are apparently solving an issue, for the first in the queue ... it's the trickledown thing - first only Mercedes has the gee whiz thingamabob, in the the top of line model. Fast forward 10 or so years, it's standard in a tiny Korean hatch ...

 

[iridium]

Keep in mind that the MasterBuilt are apparently solving an issue, for the first in the queue ... it's the trickledown thing - first only Mercedes has the gee whiz thingamabob, in the the top of line model. Fast forward 10 or so years, it's standard in a tiny Korean hatch ...

fas42, I actually no very little [besides price] about the MasterBuilt cables.
???What issue are they solving??? Thank you in advance for your response.

Very interested,
iridium

 

[watchnerd]

Add $399 active speakers, it comes in at $420 total here not counting source digits.

Figuring 1/2 of the price of the speakers for "electronics" that makes the electronics bill $221 without source.

---

As for beating my dinosaur system, I vote no, based on the speakers. Unfair since it was more than $3000, though. Oh well.

For $600 I'd go with:

JBL LSR305 (edited): $270 from Amazon
Schiit Fulla DAC/Amp: $99
Monoprice mini-jack to TRS cable: $8
Computer / iPad / Smartphone / Whatever: You already own it, so $0
Atacama Nexus 7 stands: $120

Total: $497

I'm willing to bet it would at least tie the old Celestion SL-600.

If I wanted to go passive, I'd get one of those SMSL Class-D amps for <$100.

 

[watchnerd]

Keep in mind that the MasterBuilt are apparently solving an issue

And what issue would that be?

 

[RayDunzl]

JBL LSR308: $250 from Amazon

$200 each, currently.

 

[watchnerd]

$200 each, currently.

Sorry, I meant the 305.

Currently $270 for a pack of 2:

https://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-P...ie=UTF8&qid=1482122370&sr=8-1&keywords=lsr305

 

[amirm]

And what issue would that be?

Wonders of imagination!

 

[watchnerd]

Wonders of imagination!

 

[Cosmik]

If the challenge doesn't include the time taken to put the system together, I would do the following:
- buy some MDF and cut it into appropriately sized pieces, make the appropriate holes in the pieces, clamp and glue them together
- buy six low cost drivers: two large woofers, two mid, two tweeters and attach some wires to them, with a couple of caps to protect the tweeters
- fit the drivers into the boxes we have made, with some wadding, and run the wires out through a hole.
- connect the wires to an AV amp
- feed the AV amp with the HDMI output from a laptop
- install some pieces of freeware on the laptop to implement a three way active crossover. Set up appropriately using a low cost measurement mic.

Normally, buying off-the-shelf stuff would work out far cheaper than building your own, but low cost speakers are mainly tiny two-ways with silly holes in the boxes. If we want to make something that can give a good rendition of the sorts of music I like to listen to, we need three drivers and big sealed boxes. The above system will sound superb.

 

[fas42]

And what issue would that be?

Attenuation of electrical noise from interference factors - lowering the noise floor is the terminology some people use. Why this particular cable should be particularly good at it I can't say, but the internals are genuinely very esoteric - the reasons put forward for audiophile consumption are nonsense of course, but I have some suspicions. I recognise the language used to describe what people hear when using this stuff, because I work towards the same goal in the end sound; noise from various sources is the culprit degrading the sound, and I use far more mundane, and cheap methods to control that.

 

[iridium]

If the challenge doesn't include the time taken to put the system together, I would do the following:
- buy some MDF and cut it into appropriately sized pieces, make the appropriate holes in the pieces, clamp and glue them together
- buy six low cost drivers: two large woofers, two mid, two tweeters and attach some wires to them, with a couple of caps to protect the tweeters
- fit the drivers into the boxes we have made, with some wadding, and run the wires out through a hole.
- connect the wires to an AV amp
- feed the AV amp with the HDMI output from a laptop
- install some pieces of freeware on the laptop to implement a three way active crossover. Set up appropriately using a low cost measurement mic.

Normally, buying off-the-shelf stuff would work out far cheaper than building your own, but low cost speakers are mainly tiny two-ways with silly holes in the boxes. If we want to make something that can give a good rendition of the sorts of music I like to listen to, we need three drivers and big sealed boxes. The above system will sound superb.

Good answer.

iridium.

 

[watchnerd]

The above system will sound superb.

Have you actually built speakers from scratch before?

I have. Getting it to make sounds is easy. Getting it to sound superb is hard and takes a huge amount of time, testing, measuring, re-testing, re-measuring, re-building the box when you decide you prefer a different Q for the bass, etc.

 

[Cosmik]

Have you actually built speakers from scratch before?

I have. Getting it to make sounds is easy. Getting it to sound superb is hard and takes a huge amount of time, testing, measuring, re-testing, re-measuring, re-building the box when you decide you prefer a different Q for the bass, etc.

Yes I have. The odds are heavily stacked against the passive speaker designer - which is where the myth of it being difficult comes from - but for the DSP aficionado it is very easy. You say that you might worry about the Q for the bass or whatever, but really the choices are not infinite. Go for 'the middle' and finesse it with the DSP settings.

 

[watchnerd]

Yes I have. The odds are heavily stacked against the passive speaker designer - which is where the myth of it being difficult comes from - but for the DSP aficionado it is very easy. You say that you might worry about the Q for the bass or whatever, but really the choices are not infinite. Go for 'the middle' and finesse it with the DSP settings.

Agree that DSP is a huge help when it comes to crossovers.

But unless you have a Spin-o-rama rig at home you're well short of being able to accurately measure dispersion and also well short of what the best engineered commercial designs offer.