New stereo set for 5000 EUR

[maver1ck]

Hi All,
I just started with discussing about only streaming and DAC few days ago but I think I get lost in this forum and I'm ready to change everything. (as my current set up has 20 years +)

So those are the facts. I have around 20 m^2 room. I'm listening mainly to rock / pop / jazz / electronic music.
I'm living in Poland and I want to listen to the set before buying. I'm adding Polish / Europe prices here.

My ideas to check:
- Source: as discussed in streamer / DAC thread - WiiM Pro Plus - 280 EUR + UMIK-1 to play with REW - 150 EUR
- Amp - Apollon NCx500ST or NAD C298 - 1500 EUR, no preamp probably is needed
- Speakers - 2x KEF R7 (non meta) - 2300 EUR
- Sub - I think I can use rest (around 700 EUR) for 1 sub. KEF Kube 12B should be within the limits.

I'm seeing a problem with connecting sub (not sure if RCA splitter is best option).
The idea may be change source to WiiM Pro (non Plus) + SMSL DA 100 combination.

What do you think ?

 

[DanielT]

Good stuff you are thinking about.

You can read more about KEF 7 here:

KEF R7 - Is It Worth It?

Hello everyone, I have been following the forum for a long time without being a member, but today I am a part of the family. My question is; I decided to change it after reading the measurements of my own speaker; Dynaudio Special 40. The sound getting better, while my money has remained in...

audiosciencereview.com

For me, floorstanding speakers should be designed so that they can do without a subwoofer. Otherwise, you can think about the sub-bookshelf speaker combination. Having said that, the KEF R7 seems to be a good speaker.

Connect a sub with the Apollon NCx500ST either by having a sub with line out or perhaps via an RCA splitter.

Best is to have LP-HP filters between sub speakers.Can be solved via digital filters (DSP) via or active crossovers.In addition, you then split the signal sub-speaker via such a solution.

This is what I mean by floor-standing speakers, with sufficient bass. I just took a couple I found pictures of, as an example.

Electronic music can go down really low in frequency, so maybe a sub is needed after all. Also needed with speakers in the picture above (maybe).
But it's a matter of taste.

Edit:
I plug in this sometimes, between bass modules and speakers. Easy to use. Works really well:

LD Systems X 223

Active Crossover Stereo 2-way/Mono 3-way, Frequency range: 20 - 20,000 Hz, Dynamics: 106 dB, 2x High gain, 2x High pass: 40 Hz, 2x Input gain, 2x Low gain, 2x Switch Freq. x1 / x10, 2x X-Over Freq. Low/High, 2x X-Over Low/Mid, 4x Inv. Switch, LF...

www.thomann.de

 

[maver1ck]

Regarding LP-HP filter as I understad miniDSP Flex is the least expensive solution here. (and it's 800 EUR in Poland).

Regarding other staff. Partially for me R3 vs R7 decision is matter of preference (bookshelves vs floorstanding). I prefer floorstanding.

My idea of completing this is as follows.
1) Buy sources. Wiim Pro Plus is already tested. UMIK-1 will arrive tomorrow.
2) As a side project I will measure current equipment.
3) In the meantime Apollon Audio is building NCx500ST for me. I'm 100% sure on this part of equipment and it has been ordered.
4) When Amp arrives I will do some sightseeing of nearly audio dealers to do preliminary testing.
KEF R7 is available in my town and heavily discounted (may be related to introduction of Meta series)
5) Then I can order speakers via the internet. In EU you have 14 days to return everything without any reasons.
But I want to narrow choice as much as possible.
6) Then I may think about sub. (based on REW measurements and tests)

In this plan the biggest unknown are speakers.
I was thinking also about Revel F206 but they are 2x more expensive in Poland than R7.
What else I should test ?

 

[DanielT]

Regarding LP-HP filter as I understad miniDSP Flex is the least expensive solution here. (and it's 800 EUR in Poland).

Regarding other staff. Partially for me R3 vs R7 decision is matter of preference (bookshelves vs floorstanding). I prefer floorstanding.

My idea of completing this is as follows.
1) Buy sources. Wiim Pro Plus is already tested. UMIK-1 will arrive tomorrow.
2) As a side project I will measure current equipment.
3) In the meantime Apollon Audio is building NCx500ST for me. I'm 100% sure on this part of equipment and it has been ordered.
4) When Amp arrives I will do some sightseeing of nearly audio dealers to do preliminary testing.
KEF R7 is available in my town and heavily discounted (may be related to introduction of Meta series)
5) Then I can order speakers via the internet. In EU you have 14 days to return everything without any reasons.
But I want to narrow choice as much as possible.
6) Then I may think about sub. (based on REW measurements and tests)

In this plan the biggest unknown are speakers.
I was thinking also about Revel F206 but they are 2x more expensive in Poland than R7.
What else I should test ?

But miniDSP Flex for 800 EUR just to split between sub-speakers is unnecessarily expensive. BUT if you also want to use other functions with miniDSP Flex, well thats another matter.
Now you added another 800 EUR , so how much in total can you expect to spend on your solution?

Your UMIK-1 will arrive tomorrow, you say. Exciting. Plug it in and test.

 

[maver1ck]

MiniDSP is not on the list.

Ad edit: LD systems is much cheaper (120 EUR) so it may be within budget.
I will read more about it.

 

[Timcognito]

All In One FYI gets you Dirac DSP, Streaming and 120 w/ch amp

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - miniDSP SHD Power Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagehifi.com

 

[maver1ck]

All In One FYI gets you Dirac DSP, Streaming and 120 w/ch amp

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - miniDSP SHD Power Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagehifi.com

I think R7 needs 250 W.

 

[kemmler3D]

For 5K EUR you can also just go straight to the LS60, which would still arguably need a sub in your space, but then you don't need to worry about DAC / streamer.

 

[DanielT]

MiniDSP is not on the list.

Ad edit: LD systems is much cheaper (120 EUR) so it may be within budget.
I will read more about it.

I think it is more or less the same as this one:

Amir:
"I am going to recommend the dbx 223xs. It is a bargain given its build and performance."

dbx 223xs Crossover Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the dbx 223xs active analog balanced crossover. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $245. I must say this is a nice and sturdy package for such a bargain price. Controls feel nice as well. Functionality though is confusing given the...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[mcdn]

You don’t need a filter, just run the sub off an RCA splitter - 99% of subs have a low pass filter built in. Having 3 sources of bass is much better for getting an even bass. I’d recommend SVS Pro models personally, but they may be a bit over budget

 

[maver1ck]

For 5K EUR you can also just go straight to the LS60, which would still arguably need a sub in your space, but then you don't need to worry about DAC / streamer.

They almost fit within the budget and I looked at them already.
But I'm not sure if mixing software with speakers is good idea.
Probably in 5-10 years horizon current standards may be obsolete or out of support.
Buying new streamer/DAC is cheap. Buying new speakers not so.

 

[maver1ck]

You don’t need a filter, just run the sub off an RCA splitter - 99% of subs have a low pass filter built in. Having 3 sources of bass is much better for getting an even bass. I’d recommend SVS Pro models personally, but they may be a bit over budget

Depends on model. SB-1000 is within.

 

[Timcognito]

I think R7 needs 250 W.

120 w/ch is plenty

 

[kemmler3D]

They almost fit within the budget and I looked at them already.
But I'm not sure if mixing software with speakers is good idea.
Probably in 5-10 years horizon current standards may be obsolete or out of support.
Buying new streamer/DAC is cheap. Buying new speakers not so.

Other than the EQ / setup features the LS60 doesn't require the app to function. But I think this is a reasonable POV. I guess with KEF you'd hope a 60-year-old company could support its flagship speaker at least at a minimal level for 10+ years, but we'll see.

 

[maver1ck]

Other than the EQ / setup features the LS60 doesn't require the app to function. But I think this is a reasonable POV. I guess with KEF you'd hope a 60-year-old company could support its flagship speaker at least at a minimal level for 10+ years, but we'll see.

I think it needs software on daily basis. You need to stream sound somehow. What if in 2030 there will be no Spotify and Tidal? And no support for brand new streaming services ?
I will compare with Lego bricks. You can use electric parts that are 30 years old. I’m not sure that current sets that need mobile phone for usage will be usable in 30 years.

 

[kemmler3D]

You need to stream sound somehow. What if in 2030 there will be no Spotify and Tidal?

It has plenty of inputs. For example I have a WiiM mini connected to the optical on mine so I can use it with the whole house system. I have my TV hooked to HDMI. There is also digital coax and analog RCA in. The sub outs are analog. Wifi is very nice but not required to use them.

Of course if the app goes away then some important features might go away too. And there is always the fear that the amps will die young, with any active speaker. So I don't think anyone who isn't comfortable with AIO actives to get them. But it's not as if the LS60s become a paperweight if the app stops being updated.

 

[mcdn]

Depends on model. SB-1000 is within.

Oh well get an SB-1000 pro then

 

[DanielT]

You don’t need a filter, just run the sub off an RCA splitter - 99% of subs have a low pass filter built in. Having 3 sources of bass is much better for getting an even bass. I’d recommend SVS Pro models personally, but they may be a bit over budget

You are right it works without HP filter. Just put the crossover point on the subs LP filter where it fits considering how the KEF 7 rolls off.
However, the advantage of HP filter is to relieve the amplifier and speakers of working with the lowest frequencies and thus reduce the distortion. In this case, if the amplifier is Apollon NCx500ST, the distortion aspect does not matter. It easily handles the lowest frequencies without breaking a sweat, so to speak, but that would perhaps help the speakers.

 

[mcdn]

You are right it works without HP filter. Just put the crossover point on the subs LP filter where it fits considering how the KEF 7 rolls off.
However, the advantage of HP filter is to relieve the amplifier and speakers of working with the lowest frequencies and thus reduce the distortion. In this case, if the amplifier is Apollon NCx500ST, the distortion aspect does not matter. It easily handles the lowest frequencies without breaking a sweat, so to speak, but that would perhaps help the speakers.

View attachment 340638

The Kef R7 has good low distortion bass, so it might as well be used. It doesn’t go very low, that’s where the sub comes in.

There are different options where the sub is needed to carry all the bass, because the main speakers distort too much. This isn’t one of those cases.

 

[DanielT]

The Kef R7 has good low distortion bass, so it might as well be used. It doesn’t go very low, that’s where the sub comes in.

There are different options where the sub is needed to carry all the bass, because the main speakers distort too much. This isn’t one of those cases.

Then just plug in an active sub with an adjustable LP filter. Or two subwoofers.

Here's a tip for the OP. A number of subwoofers are tested. Some of them might be suitable in terms of price and performance:?

I measured 10 subwoofers.

Hi, it's been a while! I would like to thank the people who made this project possible on a scale never before imagined in South Korea. I measured a total of 10 subwoofers, including my own DIY subwoofer(L26RO4Y), and measured them to the CEA-2010 standard using a Klippel TBM module. Below are...

audiosciencereview.com