Need help to improve music quality

[Dwight]

I am new to the forum (i am French, sorry for my english) I need help or advice to direct me to the best solution to improve my "HIFI" experience in a room of about 35 m².
My current system consists of a Dali Zensor 5.0 set (Zensor 5, vokal and zensor 1), a BK electronic P12-300SB-DF subwoofer. Everything is powered by a Denon x3300w. I'm using a chromecast to stream amazon music HD on a HDMI input.

On the Home theater aspect I am fully satisfied, on the other hand for musical listening it lacks life, percussion, presence in the bass whether in Audyssey configuration or pure direct. This is why I am looking to improve this rendering at a lower cost, and I had several thoughts:

1. Add a power amplifier on the pre-out outputs of the Denon (or a HIFI amplifier with the Direct In/Bypass option). I think this solution has the advantage of also being beneficial when used in HT but i will always go through the DAC of the Denon. So 2 models caught my attention :
   • XTZ Edge A2-300 (ICEpower)
   • Audiophonics MPA-S125NC (Hypex Ncore)
2. Use an additional amplifier with a source selector (like Dynavox amp-S). I am lost in all the models that exist today, a few years ago I had a FX Audio D802 on my pair of Zensor, and I found the result really interesting but it seems to me today outdated. On this solution I will go
   • FDA type amp but wich one SMSL AD18? or Alientek D8? other ?
     
   • on a class D like an LOXJIE A30, but sufficient to adequately power the Zensor 5 in about 35 m², or other ?
3. Change my front speakers, to stay on a coherent set in HT I can get a pair of used Dali Ikon 6 MK2.

Thank you in advance for your help

 

[nerdstrike]

Before spending €€€, if you played a movie scene with a soundtrack you like, and then played the audio version off Amazon music, do you experience the same disappointment? For example, misirilou in the opening of Taxi.

Sometimes the levels vary a lot between sources. E.g. the dab radio in my car is super loud compared with reading an mp3. I also wonder if your 2.0 music is not being fed to the sub. There's a few ways you could be let down that won't necessarily be fixed by additional hardware.

 

[Dwight]

Before spending €€€, if you played a movie scene with a soundtrack you like, and then played the audio version off Amazon music, do you experience the same disappointment? For example, misirilou in the opening of Taxi.

Sometimes the levels vary a lot between sources. E.g. the dab radio in my car is super loud compared with reading an mp3. I also wonder if your 2.0 music is not being fed to the sub. There's a few ways you could be let down that won't necessarily be fixed by additional hardware.

Indeed before spending € I generally give myself a period of reflection of 1 month so as not to act on a whim that is too quick and stupid. Today I can say that it is a real need, or when I listen to music the result does not satisfy.

Regarding your comment, my expectations in HT are different, I am mainly looking for this effect of bubble, immersion, surround effects, impact in the bass, clarity in the voices...

Listening to music is different, I say compared to my experience with the D802 at the time. Certainly I had another HT amp (yamaha), but when I listened to music in stereo with the D802, it was incomparable and I do not find this feeling with the Denon (difficult to explain in English).

After yes I tested all the configurations, in 2.0, 2.1, in pure direct, different Audyssey settings.
And the streaming from amazon music is in good quality, subscription with CD quality up to 24 bit, 192 kHz

 

[Rednaxela]

Have you tried to fine tune your Audyssey using the app?

Audyssey Room EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[DVDdoug]

I could just be the recordings (performance, mixing. mastering). It's probably NOT the format (streaming, HD, etc.).

Regarding your comment, my expectations in HT are different, I am mainly looking for this effect of bubble, immersion, surround effects, impact in the bass, clarity in the voices...

Are you getting anything out of the subwoofer with music?

Have you tried the surround enhancements? ...The opposite philosophy from "pure direct". I have a different AVR but I like a setting that sends some delayed reverb to the rear speakers.

 

[jbattman1016]

I am new to the forum (i am French, sorry for my english) I need help or advice to direct me to the best solution to improve my "HIFI" experience in a room of about 35 m².
My current system consists of a Dali Zensor 5.0 set (Zensor 5, vokal and zensor 1), a BK electronic P12-300SB-DF subwoofer. Everything is powered by a Denon x3300w. I'm using a chromecast to stream amazon music HD on a HDMI input.

On the Home theater aspect I am fully satisfied, on the other hand for musical listening it lacks life, percussion, presence in the bass whether in Audyssey configuration or pure direct. This is why I am looking to improve this rendering at a lower cost, and I had several thoughts:

1. Add a power amplifier on the pre-out outputs of the Denon (or a HIFI amplifier with the Direct In/Bypass option). I think this solution has the advantage of also being beneficial when used in HT but i will always go through the DAC of the Denon. So 2 models caught my attention :
   • XTZ Edge A2-300 (ICEpower)
   • Audiophonics MPA-S125NC (Hypex Ncore)
2. Use an additional amplifier with a source selector (like Dynavox amp-S). I am lost in all the models that exist today, a few years ago I had a FX Audio D802 on my pair of Zensor, and I found the result really interesting but it seems to me today outdated. On this solution I will go
   • FDA type amp but wich one SMSL AD18? or Alientek D8? other ?
   • on a class D like an LOXJIE A30, but sufficient to adequately power the Zensor 5 in about 35 m², or other ?
3. Change my front speakers, to stay on a coherent set in HT I can get a pair of used Dali Ikon 6 MK2.

Thank you in advance for your help

From the Amazon site:
Which Android devices support Amazon Music HD?[/B] Most Android devices released since 2014 can support HD/Ultra HD playback (up to 48kHz). Please ensure that your device is running on Android Lollipop, or later. At this time Amazon Music HD is not supported on Chromecast.

So while you have subscribed to HD audio, it is not supported on the Chromecast. This might be your issue.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Others have already given plenty of good hints.

Some more general hints:
Changing amps / electronics is usually having the least effect on your perceived problem.
Changing speakers has a much larger effect, but I am not sure about the speaker you had in mind.
Changing and adapting Audyssey correctly or to your optimal needs also has a big effect and it is for free. I therefore would start with that before looking into new speakers, let alone amps.

 

[Dwight]

Have you tried to fine tune your Audyssey using the app?

Audyssey Room EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I'll look at this point thank you, too bad the application is paid ...

I could just be the recordings (performance, mixing. mastering). It's probably NOT the format (streaming, HD, etc.).



Are you getting anything out of the subwoofer with music?

Have you tried the surround enhancements? ...The opposite philosophy from "pure direct". I have a different AVR but I like a setting that sends some delayed reverb to the rear speakers.

Yes the subwoofer brings more depth and consistency to the bass.
Yes I tried the different Music settings (dolby, DTS neutral, etc...). Indeed with a setting on DTS neutral for example this improves the rendering a little.
A song like Petra Magoni (Roxanne), we get closer to what I want on the voice but it comes from the central speaker. On a song by the Eagles (Hotel california), I manage to dissociate the instruments better, but it's the same thing that comes from the surrounds.
But hey, we're still below what I had with a simple D802 and I find it hard to imagine that you have to use a 5.1 configuration to get better results when listening to music...

From the Amazon site:
Which Android devices support Amazon Music HD?[/B] Most Android devices released since 2014 can support HD/Ultra HD playback (up to 48kHz). Please ensure that your device is running on Android Lollipop, or later. At this time Amazon Music HD is not supported on Chromecast.

So while you have subscribed to HD audio, it is not supported on the Chromecast. This might be your issue.

it's surprising because on the stream there is the acronym HD and on the info from my smartphone as well (see Attachment)
In any case before bringing out the chromecast I was using the amazon music application on android TV (sony x90j), not noticing any difference
But I'm still going to take a closer look !

Anyway, thanks for all your feedback.

 

[Dwight]

Ah yes, I understand better, all the songs benefiting from a higher quality (24 bit / 96 khz for example) are limited to a broadcast in 16 bit / 44.1 Khz
But I don't think that necessarily explains my feelings, well it's in French but an experiment had been carried out by one of the most serious newspapers in France
https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2015/08/21/on-a-teste-la-musique-en-haute-definition_4711583_4408996.html

 

[jbattman1016]

Ah yes, I understand better, all the songs benefiting from a higher quality (24 bit / 96 khz for example) are limited to a broadcast in 16 bit / 44.1 Khz
But I don't think that necessarily explains my feelings, well it's in French but an experiment had been carried out by one of the most serious newspapers in France
https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2015/08/21/on-a-teste-la-musique-en-haute-definition_4711583_4408996.html

Yes, it looks like it's capped to CD quality, which should be fine. Do you have the same issue if you used a different source? On my denon, the music (2 channel) settings are under a different category, not sure if that applies to your device. It contains a completely different crossover and speaker configuration setting.

 

[Dwight]

Yes, it looks like it's capped to CD quality, which should be fine. Do you have the same issue if you used a different source? On my denon, the music (2 channel) settings are under a different category, not sure if that applies to your device. It contains a completely different crossover and speaker configuration setting.

What do you mean by another source? For example use one of the optical or coax audio inputs?

 

[flipflop]

There aren't any spinorama measurements of the speakers you own or the speakers you're considering. They might be poor performers.
The only Dali model with a spin is the Spektor 1 and it measures like crap: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ali-spektor-1-review-bookshelf-speaker.25063/

 

[HarmonicTHD]

What do you mean by another source? For example use one of the optical or coax audio inputs?

It’s not the source which is causing you grief. See above.

Start with Audyssey and optimize for stereo music first in order to keep it simple for starters and so you don’t have to chase too many variables.

 

[Timcognito]

Did you set up Audyssey with a microphone in your listening position using its auto calibration features? That is not clear in the discussion. That is an essential first step.

 

[Dwight]

There aren't any spinorama measurements of the speakers you own or the speakers you're considering. They might be poor performers.
The only Dali model with a spin is the Spektor 1 and it measures like crap: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ali-spektor-1-review-bookshelf-speaker.25063/

I have never heard of the spektor range but the zensor 5 range has been replaced by the Oberon 5.
I don't think it compares with spektor 1

It’s not the source which is causing you grief. See above.

Start with Audyssey and optimize for stereo music first in order to keep it simple for starters and so you don’t have to chase too many variables.

yes i think i will buy audyssey app

Did you set up Audyssey with a microphone in your listening position using its auto calibration features? That is not clear in the discussion. That is an essential first step.

yes the calibration has been carried out and in a complete way, that is to say on the 8 measurement points

 

[jbattman1016]

How far apart are your measurement points? I typically only move the mic about 3 inches (<8cm) around the main point of measurements and this has always worked out ok.

 

[Dwight]

from memory it seems to me that I had respected the indications, I had not exceeded 50 cm between each point.
My sofa is 3.5 m long, to cover all impossible to space 8 cm

 

[jbattman1016]

from memory it seems to me that I had respected the indications, I had not exceeded 50 cm between each point.
My sofa is 3.5 m long, to cover all impossible to space 8 cm

The measurements are not designed to cover the entire couch, it's really just measurements from a single point. I would recommend you re-run calibration with the mic just moving around the seat you like to sit in the most. The rest will be fine.