Evaluating new studio monitors current Monitors are Yamaha NS40M at least 30 years old

[davidki]

Reason whi KH 310A reaches so low for woofer it has and enclosure of course it's because it's a bit too much far-fatch with the use of Linkwitz transform in order to extend it, it's also reason for increased distortion there. They did it less with KH750.
View attachment 428501
Amp class is reason why they are low self noise and no hissing (it can be done and with modern class D - H with filters).

I did read the review (and I'm looking for other tests and reviews) I think the only way to confirm some of this is to actually bring them in and test them... this test certainly brings up a lot of questions on the low end.. But it seems like no matter the cost or the test you can find a flaw in any monitor out there which brings you to the question do you just try to fine one with the least issues... I have my own thoughts on Class D electronics some good some bad but I know that the Bryston Class A/B amp has been around for many years and are in many installations and still... there is a back log on getting them... I had to wait over 8 months for mine. I guess I didn't ask but what monitors are you using currently and why did you buy them.

 

[ZolaIII]

@davidki which test?
I use QA Q3030i with 2x Warfadale D10 sub's over PC as DSP platform JRiver WDM and DAW plugins for phase and convolver. Recently doungraded the sound card from Creative AE-5 to SB Z SE for CS synchronous Toslink input. Amplifier is Yamaha A-S 700 which whosent easy to catch (new both last year from official dealer that had old stock of them) that's older and more refined than what ever is in Bryston amp. In true 2.2 with to the room decay slope Butterwort model very precise done crossovers which are high at 120 Hz with proper ISO 226 integration. All in all nothing special or expensive but you can't buy it all like that of the shelf.
Of course there is no perfect speakers but there are damn good one's so bring it in and find for yourself.
Don't ask me about DAW's I am old school Adobe Audition guy, I mostly use MC VST plugins (convolver and re phase) in free to use form.
Main problem are the design and price limits for designers and they all try to push out more than they should in home and "HiFi" tire. PA and DIY guys are usually only one's who do it proper and of course only some of them. Each one ever compromise has it's cost and so on.
Edit: if I would go today with actives I would go with JBL LSR2328P which I have as same diler I both the amp from (keeping same sub's).

 

[davidki]

@davidki which test?
I use QA Q3030i with 2x Warfadale D10 sub's over PC as DSP platform JRiver WDM and DAW plugins for phase and convolver. Recently doungraded the sound card from Creative AE-5 to SB Z SE for CS synchronous Toslink input. Amplifier is Yamaha A-S 700 which whosent easy to catch (new both last year from official dealer that had old stock of them) that's older and more refined than what ever is in Bryston amp. In true 2.2 with to the room decay slope Butterwort model very precise done crossovers which are high at 120 Hz with proper ISO 226 integration. All in all nothing special or expensive but you can't buy it all like that of the shelf.
Of course there is no perfect speakers but there are damn good one's so bring it in and find for yourself.
Don't ask me about DAW's I am old school Adobe Audition guy, I mostly use MC VST plugins (convolver and re phase) in free to use form.
Main problem are the design and price limits for designers and they all try to push out more than they should in home and "HiFi" tire. PA and DIY guys are usually only one's who do it proper and of course only some of them. Each one ever compromise has it's cost and so on.
Edit: if I would go today with actives I would go with JBL LSR2328P which I have as same diler I both the amp from (keeping same sub's).

Sounds like your all set up (no pun intended) I looked at the QA, not a very expensive speaker at all.... as are the JBL and it goes to show you buying the high price spread isn't always the most important. I think I remember a few years back talking with the guys at Vintage about them. Because were in Nashville we have both ProTools and Cubase in the studio because each engineer loves their DAW . Years ago I would use Soundforge and then Video Vegas, I love them both but when your dealing with outside engineers you have to have what the want to use... but that's ok everything runs on our studio pc and is all handled through our digital console and RME Ray-dat card. One thing I did recently buy was a NEVE 1073 OPx which also interfaces via ADAT lite pipe. What I have always felt was the one of the most important equipment to have is a great Mic Cabinet and I think were up to $85,000 in just mics ... it's not a cheap hobby at all ..

Thanks again for all the information... Now I just have to have time to do all this... the nice thing is I can keep my Yamaha's up and running with the Bryston in the studio and just move the Mackies out of the way to try others. (By the way I just looked at Erin's review and data on the Mackies... for their age and design they sure did very well in the tests.

 

[Ktacos]

Thanks again for all the information... Now I just have to have time to do all this... the nice thing is I can keep my Yamaha's up and running with the Bryston in the studio and just move the Mackies out of the way to try others. (By the way I just looked at Erin's review and data on the Mackies... for their age and design they sure did very well in the tests.

Keep in mind if you want a more fair comparison, you'll want to put the new speakers where the yamahas are. The Yamaha look to be placed more appropriately for the seating position, the mackies are a bit too far out IMO.

 

[ZolaIII]

Sounds like your all set up (no pun intended) I looked at the QA, not a very expensive speaker at all.... as are the JBL and it goes to show you buying the high price spread isn't always the most important. I think I remember a few years back talking with the guys at Vintage about them. Because were in Nashville we have both ProTools and Cubase in the studio because each engineer loves their DAW . Years ago I would use Soundforge and then Video Vegas, I love them both but when your dealing with outside engineers you have to have what the want to use... but that's ok everything runs on our studio pc and is all handled through our digital console and RME Ray-dat card. One thing I did recently buy was a NEVE 1073 OPx which also interfaces via ADAT lite pipe. What I have always felt was the one of the most important equipment to have is a great Mic Cabinet and I think were up to $85,000 in just mics ... it's not a cheap hobby at all ..

Thanks again for all the information... Now I just have to have time to do all this... the nice thing is I can keep my Yamaha's up and running with the Bryston in the studio and just move the Mackies out of the way to try others. (By the way I just looked at Erin's review and data on the Mackies... for their age and design they sure did very well in the tests.

There is a story behind those JBL's. They are cut down version of bigger brother which whose first (to my knowledge at least) with digital crossovers and integrated room correction one of the last Toole children. Those have pasive crossover to a bigger brother model and in the same way I like to implement them. Old A-B class amp's, wave guide and all, used to come with 5 years warranty and were built with quality in mind. As I can get them for bargain price I would go with them if I didn't like my Yamaha amplifier so much for simplicity and analog unbalanced inputs with SNR to rival even some balanced ones.
I like simple work flow of Audition and you can't teach the old dog a new trick at least not easily. My application is home so for a little money it out matches what you would get from good AVR. I use beemer and for the movie's most part so I do video processing internally with Mad VR. As much as Neumann speakers are good you should avoid their mics. Most demanding thing I sound up recording ever whose a children (academic) gospel chorus (and not a small one) with a range of shut guns and cardioids for lead vocals. Most annoying whose always a pounding drummer. It's a hobby hire and on similar places finding outstanding good cheap stuff affordable to many.
Go ahead and don't rush it, you will get there and better safe than sorry.

 

[davidki]

There is a story behind those JBL's. They are cut down version of bigger brother which whose first (to my knowledge at least) with digital crossovers and integrated room correction one of the last Toole children. Those have pasive crossover to a bigger brother model and in the same way I like to implement them. Old A-B class amp's, wave guide and all, used to come with 5 years warranty and were built with quality in mind. As I can get them for bargain price I would go with them if I didn't like my Yamaha amplifier so much for simplicity and analog unbalanced inputs with SNR to rival even some balanced ones.
I like simple work flow of Audition and you can't teach the old dog a new trick at least not easily. My application is home so for a little money it out matches what you would get from good AVR. I use beemer and for the movie's most part so I do video processing internally with Mad VR. As much as Neumann speakers are good you should avoid their mics. Most demanding thing I sound up recording ever whose a children (academic) gospel chorus (and not a small one) with a range of shut guns and cardioids for lead vocals. Most annoying whose always a pounding drummer. It's a hobby hire and on similar places finding outstanding good cheap stuff affordable to many.
Go ahead and don't rush it, you will get there and better safe than sorry.

Well, it seems there are quite a few folks on here that like the KH310a monitors so I decided to look a little more at them and from the Neumann website I have a few comments. It seems like these monitors have a focus on "Midrange" which seems odd to me, Ive always thought that Studio Monitors should be neutral and not necessarily focused on one area or another Have you had any experience with them? Ive always thought that the studio monnitors were not specific t any instruments or range but it seems Neumann really promotes these monitors with the Mid range in mind.... do you read it that way?

 

[ZolaIII]

Well, it seems there are quite a few folks on here that like the KH310a monitors so I decided to look a little more at them and from the Neumann website I have a few comments. It seems like these monitors have a focus on "Midrange" which seems odd to me, Ive always thought that Studio Monitors should be neutral and not necessarily focused on one area or another Have you had any experience with them? Ive always thought that the studio monnitors were not specific t any instruments or range but it seems Neumann really promotes these monitors with the Mid range in mind.... do you read it that way?

Well you got a better end than I do. I had to demonstrate basic cleaning and mixing. People say all kinda things all the time. Isolated midrange in it's own enclosure have function to well isolate midrange area they cover from cabinet resonance improve transistancy and improve directivity. In KH310 they kick in only at 700 Hz and go up to 1700 Hz and have less of such effect anyway. NS10 whose midrange centric with a +3 dB boots there, KH310 is flat as it can be. You won't find much scoring panthers around hire, even less for speakers. Amir does a load of stuff and when something catches him of the guard it means plenty.

 

[davidki]

Well you got a better end than I do. I had to demonstrate basic cleaning and mixing. People say all kinda things all the time. Isolated midrange in it's own enclosure have function to well isolate midrange area they cover from cabinet resonance improve transistancy and improve direcrivity. In KH310 they kick in only at 700 Hz and go up to 1700 Hz and have less of such effect anyway. NS10 whose midrange centric with a +3 dB boots there, KH310 is flat as it can be. You won't find much scoring panthers around hire, even less for speakers. Amir does a load of stuff and when something catches him of the guard it means plenty.

Thanks I'll have to find Amir site and find his test on them if I can. I sent my measurement mics in to check the calibration and get a new Cal file if I need it but hopefully I will hear back from them this week... Did you say you have used REW in the past?

 

[thewas]

In KH310 they kick in only at 700 Hz and go up to 1700 Hz

Not exactly, official crossover frequencies are 650 Hz und 2000 Hz.

 

[ZolaIII]

Thanks I'll have to find Amir site and find his test on them if I can. I sent my measurement mics in to check the calibration and get a new Cal file if I need it but hopefully I will hear back from them this week... Did you say you have used REW in the past?

It's here I forwarded it to you a moment you mentioned them. Amirm is our host hire.
@thewas I used plots from review. It's a bit high, probably because it's small.

 

[thewas]

@thewas I used plots from review.

Such nearfield driver measurements do not show the correct relative levels of each driver (as they are proportional to the driver surfaces) which results in such errors when thinking the curve crossing points represent the real acoustic crossover points.

 

[davidki]

Such nearfield driver measurements do not show the correct relative levels of each driver (as they are proportional to the driver surfaces) which results in such errors when thinking the curve crossing points represent the real acoustic crossover points.

Got it~ I am going to do a little more reading this afternoon

 

[Geert]

It seems like these monitors have a focus on "Midrange" which seems odd to me

I mixed on them for years. Nothing midrange focused about them. They provide a more open and detailed midrange compared to some 2-way monitors that perform less in that regard, but that's the 2-ways having a weak point and not the Neumanns overemphasing things. ATC SCM25A's have that even more.

 

[davidki]

I mixed on them for years. Nothing midrange focused about them. They provide a more open and detailed midrange compared to some 2-way monitors that perform less in that regard, but that's the 2-ways having a weak point and not the Neumanns overemphasing things. ATC SCM25A's have that even more.

Geert, thanks for the information...What type of music projects do you usually work on. Do you still have the KH310a's? I am looking for a demo room to take some tunes up that I know from my room to listen to and compare. I've mentioned it before but we are very much working on projects that are mainly acouustic ... Quite a few Bluegrass projects. We do the occasional Country project though. We don't do any Techno, Rap, hard rock type projects... were a small studio and work on projects that fit well in out studio. There use to be quite a few listening rooms and demo rooms in Nashville but over the last 3 or 4 years they have seemed to have gone away. Of course the best way to listen is in our control room but we don''t have any friends with the to bring them in....

 

[Geert]

Geert, thanks for the information...What type of music projects do you usually work on. Do you still have the KH310a's? I am looking for a demo room to take some tunes up that I know from my room to listen to and compare.

Mainly jazz fusion, soul and dance, so a big variety of styles. It's dance where the KH310a's struggle because of limited low range SPL, there a subwoofer is recommended. But it's the more acoustic stuff where they shine, as others have confirmed. For the type of work you do these Neumanns or the ATC SCM25A or SCM45A's would be on the top of my list.

I'm located in Europe, so coming over for a listen is not that easy

 

[davidki]

Mainly jazz fusion, soul and dance, so a big variety of styles. It's dance where the KH310a's struggle because of limited low range SPL, there a subwoofer is recommended. But it's the more acoustic stuff where they shine, as others have confirmed. For the type of work you do these Neumanns or the ATC SCM25A or SCM25A's would be on the top of my list.

I'm located in Europe, so coming over for a listen is not that easy

Thanks for the quick reply... For us we have always focused on the Acoustic side of things... that is what our studio is best set up for and living in the Nashville Tn area Bluegrass music is big...so, we do alot of bluegrass. I pretty much started out in the 70''s doing folk Thanks for the suggestion... I use to spend a lot of time in Europe when I was working in the computer industry... If you know Mission Electronics out of the UK, they got in to the computer business in the late 80's and early 90's we designed and built all their computers and private labeled them

 

[dfuller]

It seems like these monitors have a focus on "Midrange" which seems odd to me

They don't, it's more that they have an ultra-low distortion midrange driver. Same idea as the ATCs, really. They're not hyped in the mids.