Evaluating new studio monitors current Monitors are Yamaha NS40M at least 30 years old

[davidki]

I am in the Nashville Tn area and I want to look for a new pair of Passive Studio Monitors and use REW RTA option to collect the data. I want to focus on the speakers/monitors not the room right now. The studio has been in operation since 2006 and at that time we did the Control room testing and made the necessary treatment and I'm confident the room response is about as close as one can get. I am also going to look at adding a subwoofer at some point but right now I want to focus on the main monitors and compare them to some of the newer monitors in the market and see if it's worth changing my current ones out. Over the last 30 or so years I've brought in a number of monitors to evaluate but for some reason I keep falling back to the Yamaha's (here is a link to the manual on them https://kr.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/323244/NS40MSTUDIOE.pdf) I am running a new Bryston 4b cubed amp on the mains.

99% of our projects are acoustic such as Folk, Bluegrass, Americana and some Country and so far our clients love the sound we are getting. We Track and Mix/master projects depending on the client needs. Being the Nerd I am I always like to look at ways to change things up or even add an additional set of speakers to compare mixes.... currently we do have a Pr of original Mackie HR824 powered monitors as an option in the studio.

I am only using these for music, we do not do any film or surround projects just pretty simple stereo playback of mixed projects.

I was wondering if there are any other studio owners in the Nashville area that would like to compare notes and test results. I want to stay using passive monitors since I have the new Bryston amp. Yea, the Mackies are powered but believe it or not when we compare a mix on the Yamaha and then switch to the Mackies most of the clients like the Yamaha's go figure. There are so many options out there and a wide range of size, sounds and price points I just get swamped and give up I use to like going down to Westlake audio and using their listening room but they have been gone for a year now and I haven't really found an adequte place in town to go and listen so it looks Like my next opotion is to get some demo pairs to try out

That's about it, I just thought I'd post here and see what others have done to find the monitors they like. Feel free to post or message me.

 

[ckernel8]

What's your budget? For passive maybe the Amphion Two15 or Two18 (they also have really great subwoofer modules called "Base systems" for their speakers if you want to upgrade down the line). If the goal is true studio mains (you mention mains, but I'm not sure if that's your actual use case) then the Amphion Two18 combined with the Base system is probably going to get the job done. Without the Base system but still full range, I think the Amphion One25A would get the job done.

 

[davidki]

At this point my budget is open, I just want to make sure what ever I buy sounds good in the room. I have attached a sketch of the control room and lets say the width is around 14' - 15' depending where I measure and the depth is 18 - 19' again depending where measurements are taken. Along the front actually there is a number of traps and cavities ( I can better explain on the phone) along the left wall there is a large window. Honestly the room is killer the height is 9.5' with ceiling panels in places. Again when we built the studio we had a local Nashville guy come in and measure the room.. he was quite impressed with the measurements. In the back of the room there are large bass traps as well.... so I am confident in the room...

I am leaning on passive monitors since I recently bought the Bryston 4Bcubbed pro amp. So my focus right now is passive. The Mackies you see in the room are the original HR824's I've had for many years and we tend to use those to check mixes it seems like most of the folks that come in really like the Yamaha's. It's been quite some time since listening to Amphion monitors and they were in a "Show Room" not a studio set up. One Issue I have to deal with his my desk and as you can see both the Yamaha's and the Mackies are horizontal and that is to work with my mix position .. .If I try to go vertical it screws up my mix position.

My monitors can I live with them... sure do others like them... they love them but I was trying to see what Passives are still out there and I don't need or want another set of active monitors... I guess, I do consider the Yamaha as mains as that is for the last 25 years they act as for Tracking, mixing and believe it or not mastering as well.

Nashville use to have Westlake audio and they had a great listening room with everything wired up and I could bring in something mixed in our studio and play it on several monitors... but they closed down a few years ago and although I like Vintage King they just don't have the " listening Environment" for the kind of music we mainly record which is mainly all live acoustic sessions. As for the guy that designed the studio, here is his website he has been designing studio's all over the world for more than 50 years.. I trust his design. The designer is Carl Yancher Here is his website... check out the studios he designs https://www.yanchardesign.com/

Thanks for the suggestion on the monitors... What ever I choose I probably have to bring a pair home and set them up in my studio for a real test. Sorry for the messy studio I was doing some RTA measurements and so it's a bit clutterred.

 

[dfuller]

Passives are few and far between for pro monitors these days. Most are active. ATC has some passives, but they're in the home line, and they're quite close to the active pro models in price while being less performant. Strauss has some, but they're very expensive.

Anyway, I have been pretty impressed with the following for acoustic stuff:
- Neumann KH420
- ATC SCM50ASL Pro
- PSI A25M
- Dutch and Dutch 8C

 

[Geert]

I am leaning on passive monitors since I recently bought the Bryston 4Bcubbed pro amp.

Unfortunately that reduces the number of options with more then 90%, and for the price of that amp you already have 1 state of the art active monitor. When you go active you could go for a monitor thats recognized as a standard, which is a smart investment for a commercial studio. Sell the amp is my suggestion, I can't even come up with one good passive alternative. (Fun fact is that I owned Westlakes).

 

[Cbdb2]

Passives are few and far between for pro monitors these days. Most are active. ATC has some passives, but they're in the home line, and they're quite close to the active pro models in price while being less performant. Strauss has some, but they're very expensive.

Anyway, I have been pretty impressed with the following for acoustic stuff:
- Neumann KH420
- ATC SCM50ASL Pro
- PSI A25M
- Dutch and Dutch 8C

I would add Genelecs, lots of studios use them.

 

[dfuller]

I would add Genelecs, lots of studios use them.

I wasn't particularly impressed with anything smaller than the S360, fwiw; the Ones don't present quite right to me. Dynamically "flat", if you will.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I wasn't particularly impressed with anything smaller than the S360, fwiw; the Ones don't present quite right to me. Dynamically "flat", if you will.

Even the 8361A? That's about the closest they get to a Big Boy Speaker™. The smaller Ones increasingly are on the wider side dispersion-wise and aren't really designed for super large distances. Either way, they are one of the most advanced speaker concepts currently out there (alongside e.g. the D&D 8C) and at least worth checking out. Plenty of other folks say they're among the most natural-sounding things they've heard, and their dispersion is superbly smooth (well, the 8361A maybe not quite as much as the smaller models, it's a slight compromise towards more oomph).

Could you even fit KH420s up there? Let's see:
NS-40M: W/H/D 598 x 293 x 312 mm
KH420 sideways: W/H/D 645 x 330 x 444 mm

So they're about 2" wider and 1.5" taller, but mainly quite a lot deeper, like 5". Looks like it ought to be doable. I'd still think they'd be a bit oversized for the mixing position (even if they can do it no problem, e.g. noise level is plenty low, and like many others they support rotating the mid-tweeter assembly), the couch further in room may be a different story though. These can go insanely loud >100 Hz, the custom midrange dome is even better than the already good 3" ATC it replaced and pretty much does 106 dB like it's nothing, managing up to 117-118 dB SPL @ 1m @ 1% THD. (I see some H3 peaking in the 1.3-1.8 kHz vicinity that could be addressed with a passive series notch for ~4-5.5 kHz for even more perfection, but I doubt anyone even cares at this level.)

 

[davidki]

Thanks for the replies so far I appreciate the input. One thing I've learned in the 50+ years of recording dealing with all the changes is that Monitors are more personal preference that specs and that doesn't seem to matter. Like them or not Yamaha NS10 have sold millions of records and I still see them in studios.. Over the years I've bought several pairs of monitors that I thought would work but bring them in to the studio and so some A/B and I have always fallen back to the Yamaha's. I guess I deal with an older clientele that are familiar with them and still love to mix on them. I do like the Bryston with the Yamaha's ... so I guess when I get some time (maybe after the project were on right now) I'll see about trying some alternatives but I'll probably focus on the passives that are out there.... and if I can't find something I like I guess I'll look further... but so far what I have heard didn't trip my trigger... I don't do Dance, Hip-hop, Rap and the pop... I"m still old fashion doing Folk, Americana, Instrumental, bluegrass an love to record acoustic projects ...It's work for year and as I get older it's hard to make a change

 

[dfuller]

Even the 8361A? That's about the closest they get to a Big Boy Speaker™

It's been a while (a bit over a year) since I heard the 8361s, but if memory serves they were better.

 

[dagfinn]

That's about the closest they get to a Big Boy Speaker™.

There's always 123x-series .

1237A SAM™ Studio Monitor - Genelec.com

www.genelec.com

 

[davidki]

Thanks for the suggestion

 

[AnalogSteph]

There's always 123x-series .

1237A SAM™ Studio Monitor - Genelec.com

www.genelec.com

Yeah, but I meant among the Ones. I think we are all perfectly aware that Genelec also makes main monitors, up to the massive 1236A and 1235A. Unfortunately not all of them have dispersion quite as even as one would like to see in these spheres. The three models currently at the top of the list also qualify as the most well-behaved - 8381A, S360A and 1237A. You'd be buying the Real Big Boys only if you need their SPL capabilities, not so much because they sound better.
The biggest I might still consider for the OP would be the 1237As, which would barely fit (680x400x380 mm). Honestly, KH420s seem plenty big enough and aren't much behind in SPL. Those and 8361As probably have the cleanest midrange at their price point (which is near-identical over here).

 

[dagfinn]

Thanks for the suggestion

You're welcome, even if it was mostly conversational . The bigger Genelecs tend to be forgotten in the shadow of the Ones, and offer something slightly different, yet same. Since you're set on passive, it's harder to suggest something inside my experience zone. I know there are some that might fit you, and which looks attractive to me, but I haven't heard myself.

Two15 Studio Monitor | Amphion

Amphion Two15 studio monitor truthfully reproduce sound with all engineering nuances, while retaining the musical emotions present and vivid.

amphion.fi

Honestly, KH420s seem plenty big enough and aren't much behind in SPL.

Sure, I just thought the 1237a were more similar to the KH420 and worthy of mention. 1237a does support GLM, which is an advantage.

 

[ZolaIII]

Post in thread 'Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX Review' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...acoustics-sierra-lx-review.47294/post-1693008
However recommendation is to ditch the amp and go active in Genelec or Neumann form one's with cardioid patern. For the sakes of sub's and integration I would stay with Neumann's, whichever you like more with KH750 sub's.

 

[DVDdoug]

so far our clients love the sound we are getting...

...when we compare a mix on the Yamaha and then switch to the Mackies most of the clients like the Yamaha's go figure.

If you "upgrade" your monitors you'll have to learn how to make good mixes on them. Don't forget that the most important thing is what you deliver to your clients, not what you hear in the studio (although you don't want them to be unimpressed when they hear it in your studio). And you didn't mention anything that's wrong with you current monitors.

You MIGHT benefit from bigger woofers or a subwoofer. Ideally, you want the full range covered accurately. But the kind of music you're producing probably doesn't have a lot of bass.

 

[Doenerkunde]

You like your current speakers, your clients like them, you are used to them and produce good work with them so one idea would be to stock up replacement parts to keep them in working condition indefinitely.

New original tweeters are available for 75€: https://www.thomann.de/de/yamaha_ns_40m_hochtoener.htm

I don't know the differences between the JA1811 woofer of the NS40 and the JA1801 woofer of the NS10, but MISCO offers a faithful reproduction of the JA1801 under the Bold North Audio brand.

You could have a restorer check them to see if the crossovers (electrolytic caps) and drivers are still in spec.


Strauss Elektroakustik from Switzerland specializes in passive monitors, but they are pretty expensive since wages in Switzerland are very high and I guess it will be hard to find them in the US: https://strauss-elektroakustik.de/
I bet they are great though!

 

[davidki]

You like your current speakers, your clients like them, you are used to them and produce good work with them so one idea would be to stock up replacement parts to keep them in working condition indefinitely.

New original tweeters are available for 75€: https://www.thomann.de/de/yamaha_ns_40m_hochtoener.htm

I don't know the differences between the JA1811 woofer of the NS40 and the JA1801 woofer of the NS10, but MISCO offers a faithful reproduction of the JA1801 under the Bold North Audio brand.

You could have a restorer check them to see if the crossovers (electrolytic caps) and drivers are still in spec.


Strauss Elektroakustik from Switzerland specializes in passive monitors, but they are pretty expensive since wages in Switzerland are very high and I guess it will be hard to find them in the US: https://strauss-elektroakustik.de/
I bet they are great though!

Doenerkunde... Yea, your right, If I like the ones I have why am I looking... I have always researched prodcts that I have and try to decided if the new technology would give me an edge and One example is my Sony DMX R-100 console I purchased in 1995... on that is my fear if this thing ever dies its going to be hard to replace as it has so many features and sounds so good

Over the years I have bought replacement Woofers, Tweeters, Mid-range (Honkers) and keep them on hand. I did recap one of the pairs with better caps and I run RTAs on all the monitors from time to time.... I will never get rid of the Yamaha's but I enjoy researching new ones. I think I mentioned that I have a back up pair of the Yamaha's in storage just in case. I did at one point started to look at powered monitors and that's when I bought the Mackie HR824's at the same time I bought a HRS120 and have used that in the studio with a in and out switch Unfortunately I think the caps went out on that and there is a place here in Nashville that are experts on repair, I took it in last week and they are 6-8 weeks backlog.

I've mentioned here before... we do a lot of Bluegrass projects and acoustic projects and the Yamaha have been great... We don''t do Rap, or electronic music or today's pop, we have focused on Acoustic projects and it seems that''s what most folks come to us for.

Anyway, thanks for the input and the suggestions I will continue my looking and hopefully find time (after my current project) get a few differernt pairs in to give a listen

 

[davidki]

Unfortunately that reduces the number of options with more then 90%, and for the price of that amp you already have 1 state of the art active monitor. When you go active you could go for a monitor thats recognized as a standard, which is a smart investment for a commercial studio. Sell the amp is my suggestion, I can't even come up with one good passive alternative. (Fun fact is that I owned Westlakes).

Well, I don't know if I'd sell the Brystons they just sound great with the passives I have. I realize that it's getting more difficult finding passives but I am sure there is an option, I just need to dig deeper. Monitors are so personal and over the years I've brought in other monitors and just have not found a set that I like yet. The only way for me to figure this out is to start to bring in some of the ones out there and see if I get the sound I"m' looking for.

 

[Ktacos]

I think there's too much sentimentality and bias towards the yamaha for you to be totally happy with anything else. That, and I sense a bit of fear that one may not deliver quality work on something else which likely may not be founded in much. I've mixed for some time and write my own stuff, frankly I find the whole "monitors are personal" and our obsession with them to be a little overrated.

IME great mix work comes from many factors unrelated to monitoring and I've delivered some of my best work on crappy devices that the people would line up to tell you can't be used for mixing. My recipe for good work in music is 1. I have to like the song 2. I need good sleep 3. Feed the cats so they don't interrupt me. I've utilized that recipe for a few decades and over tons of monitor changes, always works out great.

I wouldn't over think this, if you just wanna try something different buy some genelec or nuemann monitors and call it a day. If you don't like them, return them and move on. You've got what many look for, a speaker you feel really works for you so just keep them and don't worry yourself. With that perspective you just might approach a new speaker in a positive light and end up finding value in it.