Equipment burn-in: am I deluded?

[Dogen]

How does equipment “know” when to stop burning in? Where’s the line between burning in and burning out?

I’m convinced the experience was all imagined, as real as it appeared. It’s quite amazing how our perceptions are colored by our beliefs, themselves based on memories that are notoriously unreliable. Some of us want to believe in something bigger than ourselves and beyond the rational world, but surely we can do better than believing in SS equipment and cable burn-in! It’s fine to pursue non-audible perfection for its own sake, and to value non-performance qualities like appearance and brand in our choices. It can be fun to play with dubious tweaks. But it gets sad when we spend a lot of money chasing our own hallucinations.

 

[Speedskater]

Skipping over loudspeakers and vacuum tubed units for the moment.
If any other product (active or passive) changes sound in a few hours, days or weeks, send it back. It's not burning IN, it's burning OUT.

 

[invaderzim]

Burn-in when mentioned by manufactures is a great way to get customers to keep an item long enough to get used to the sound. If they just said "You'll get used to it after awhile" to anyone that complained they would get a lot of returns.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There’s no doubt that break-in is real when it comes to speakers.

And companies should stand up and do it before shipment. The user should not be expected to anticipate that "things will get better."

Years ago, I visited Burmester in Berlin and they had rooms of shelves covered with hundreds of bare drivers all undulating in response to low frequency signals. After running them in, they can be installed into boxes/systems and know that they meet spec before leaving the factory.

 

[Wombat]

FYI: Audioholics Forum view.

 

[svart-hvitt]

And companies should stand up and do it before shipment. The user should not be expected to anticipate that "things will get better."

Years ago, I visited Burmester in Berlin and they had rooms of shelves covered with hundreds of bare drivers all undulating in response to low frequency signals. After running them in, they can be installed into boxes/systems and know that they meet spec before leaving the factory.

Speaker producers do test speakers before shipping. Burmester and other audiophool brands are better at marketing what’s standard procedure in serious firms.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Speaker producers do test speakers before shipping. Burmester and other audiophool brands are better at marketing what’s standard procedure in serious firms.

Sure. This is not a big thing with me but it certainly should be for companies who claim significant changes with burn-in. Those who do not are not obligated.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Sure. This is not a big thing with me but it certainly should be for companies who claim significant changes with burn-in. Those who do not are not obligated.

I think the point is that significant burn in is a reflection of poor engineering. What other explanation is there for significant burn in?

That’s why I sugested we make a list of companies that claim significant burn in. That list would be a list of companies of poor engineering. A shame list.

 

[Kyle / MrHeeHo]

It's something I've never worried about because for any product where it would be a factor I assume that brands who take things seriously would do burning in before the product leaves the factory

 

[svart-hvitt]

It's something I've never worried about because for any product where it would be a factor I assume that brands who take things seriously would do burning in before the product leaves the factory

Why do you think in the first place that ANY gear would need burn in? What makes reproduction of audio signals so special we need a dedicated burn in process for audio reproduction gear?

 

[SIY]

I've only had one piece of commercial gear cycle through here that specifically called for burn-in. They were high end speakers, which (if memory served) were supposed to run for 100 hours. That seemed a bit excessive to me, but after an initial listen (and my reaction was "meh, not great"), I dutifully fed them signals and let them go before listening again. Amazingly, after going through the burn-in period, the sound was... meh.

This is another of those audiophile things where a grain of something true (for reliability reasons, mission-critical electronics are often burned in to eliminate infant mortality, see "bathtub curve") mutates into a load of equine feces that "everyone knows."

 

[Kyle / MrHeeHo]

Why do you think in the first place that ANY gear would need burn in? What makes reproduction of audio signals so special we need a dedicated burn in process for audio reproduction gear?

I should have clarified I meant in a hypothetical situation where it does make a difference

 

[svart-hvitt]

I should have clarified I meant in a hypothetical situation where it does make a difference

OK, then we need examples of significant burn ins. As previously noted, Genelec - as an example - acknowledge woofer burn in - but they are underlining its insignificance.

So you should come up with examples of significant burn ins, for the shame list.

 

[restorer-john]

...I'm amused that burn-in always seems to make thing better...

Burn-in. Burn-out. Lifecycle of audio gear.

Many audiophiles just live for the smallest part of the curve:

 

[pkane]

So you should come up with examples of significant burn ins, for the shame list.

Is 600 hours to burn in a loudspeaker really enough? Love all the technical explanations — they sound so scientific!!!

Electric burn-in seems to relate to the stressing of the insulator’s electric behavior (Wave Mechanics or Quantum -- both seem to get you there in this case), standing waves, or is it electron orbital, or is it electron clouds, or sets and metrics? Interplay with van der Waals forces, electric standing waves, and Pauli exclusion effects too; not only between signal, power and dielectric but also the conductor and the conductors electric behavior. Catalyst for electronic change is the propagation of signal and its power component.

https://www.zuaudio.com/questions-list/2013/8/18/what-is-burn-in

 

[Kyle / MrHeeHo]

OK, then we need examples of significant burn ins. As previously noted, Genelec - as an example - acknowledge woofer burn in - but they are underlining its insignificance.

So you should come up with examples of significant burn ins, for the shame list.

I think I'm being missunderstood here, I'm not saying it is s real thing, only that if it were It's something that would be taken care of in Quality Assurance

 

[restorer-john]

only that if it were It's something that would be taken care of in Quality Assurance

That's soak testing. To determine early life failures.

Burn-in is a silly audiophile term, apart from the old CRT and Plasma (and OLED?) days. And for technicians who left their CROs displaying a bright line and went home for the weekend...

 

[Speedskater]

Is 600 hours to burn in a loudspeaker really enough? Love all the technical explanations — they sound so scientific!!!

One hour is more than enough.

 

[Headphonaholic]

The question is: Assuming burn-in has an impact on the sound, why must it be an positive impact? Could burning-in actually make the sound worse?

You know I've been wondering that for a long time now. Not once have I ever heard anyone say that break in made the sound worse. You'd think that if there is the possibility for a positive audible difference there would be the opportunity for negative changes as well.

Personally I've never believed in burn in. Speakers and tubes make some sense but even then people will go on about it being night and day difference which just seems completely unbelievable to me. To me that sounds something is broken or wildly deviating from spec which is a major problem.

I'll throw some links to some articles I had seen a while ago focusing on the headphone realm.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/testing-audibility-break-effects

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break

 

[amirm]

What's your take on this?

https://www.kefdirect.com/blog/some-facts-about-breaking-in-your-new-speakers

Dogan

Measurements Harman made showed that the driver does indeed change. However, once you put it in a speaker box, that difference becomes very small.