Equipment burn-in: am I deluded?

[bennetng]

I have some very bad experiences from a pro audio brand.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161198

...and I believe @mansr can "burn in" a Tascam UH-7000

 

[mansr]

I have some very bad experiences from a pro audio brand.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161198

Of course pro brands can also be bad, they're just bad in different ways.

and I believe @mansr can "burn in" a Tascam UH-7000

What makes you say that? I've replaced the power supply in mine since it was picking up a lot of high-frequency noise from the built-in SMPS. Never noticed any burn-in effects.

 

[bennetng]

What makes you say that?

A joke. Don't take it seriously.

 

[andymok]

bt the way

does microphone "burn" at all?

 

[svart-hvitt]

bt the way

does microphone "burn" at all?

Tubes burn, literally.

 

[bennetng]

Tubes burn, literally.

CRT burn in is completely real.

 

[andreasmaaan]

bt the way

does microphone "burn" at all?

In theory they should break in much like speakers, yeh.

Although, being very tiny, any changes should be very subtle.

 

[Headphonaholic]

No, I had used it before but gave up in frustration. Could not get any results resembling any other measurements out there. Then again the measurements out there did not agree with each other either.

I too have struggled to get measurements that resemble what others have. I figured the issue was how I was setting up REW because I did manage to get measurements that were pretty close once.

 

[THW]

complete noob here who mainly uses headphones here but based on my limited experience, I didn't hear any significant difference with burn-in.

every time there was any change that some might attribute to "burn-in" regarding headphones, I couldn't attribute it to that more than other things like (especially IEMs) quality of the seal provided by the eartips, the conditions and type of earpads I'm using, my brain getting used to a certain sound signature, etc...

 

[svart-hvitt]

BURN IN OF HEADPHONES

Again we see that a serious manufacturer has a very simple answer on headphones:

https://sennheiserusa.happyfox.com/kb/article/130-what-is-sennheisers-stance-on-burn-in-theory/

 

[andreasmaaan]

BURN IN OF HEADPHONES

Again we see that a serious manufacturer has a very simple answer on headphones:

https://sennheiserusa.happyfox.com/kb/article/130-what-is-sennheisers-stance-on-burn-in-theory/

“At Sennheiser we do not have an official stance regarding the theory that headphones need a "burn in" period.”

I’m not sure I’d even call that an answer...

 

[THW]

“At Sennheiser we do not have an official stance regarding the theory that headphones need a "burn in" period.”

I’m not sure I’d even call that an answer...

probably because they want to avoid a shitshow, just a wild guess

the main part of the post after that introductory sentence kinda implies that they don't really think burn-in works.

from the link:

"Sennheiser headphones are designed to sound great from the first moment they are plugged in.
Some argue that over period of time a user will become more accustomed to the particular headphones. With this, they will start to notice more of the frequency response range and nuances that the headphones are capable of producing. This argument suggests that over time a user will develop a greater appreciation of the headphones and what they are capable of."

 

[svart-hvitt]

“At Sennheiser we do not have an official stance regarding the theory that headphones need a "burn in" period.”

I’m not sure I’d even call that an answer...

I see your being critical that Sennheiser give a delphic answer. But this answer is also intelligent as all their professional customers see their point while the unprofesssional ones don’t start a long discussion.

So I would definitely put Sennheiser on the white hat list.

 

[Aibo]

Just few days ago I had two Toppings D30 working at my home. The new one was not for me but I just tested it to see if it's functioning properly... To my surprise it sounded a little bit different than my own which is being used few months. The new sounded a little bit darker with high tones and tighter with bass. Now, differences are quite small but clearly audible. To me neither sounds better, just slightly different... so I don't really care. Even my girlfriend could hear it without me influencing her. New D30 unit will not stay with me so I can't say if it's just a slightly different unit or will it burn-in and start sounding the same after some time.

From the electronics standpoint there is some merit to the burn-in story. Some electrical components do go trough some changes when we start using them. New electrolytic capacitors for example need to work for a period of time measured in hours before electrolyte levels can settle and specified performance can be fully achieved. Also if not used for a longer period of time, electrolyte levels can slightly change and they may need some working time to recover to there nominal state when we start using them again.

Just to be clear, I'm saying only that there is such thing as burn-in time of some electrical components but I'm not saying that we can hear them in audio equipment. I never did any testing of that sort nor do I have any personal experience about it except mentioned D30s, but that could also be due to other factors.

 

[Wombat]

Just few days ago I had two Toppings D30 working at my home. The new one was not for me but I just tested it to see if it's functioning properly... To my surprise it sounded a little bit different than my own which is being used few months. The new sounded a little bit darker with high tones and tighter with bass. Now, differences are quite small but clearly audible. To me neither sounds better, just slightly different... so I don't really care. Even my girlfriend could hear it without me influencing her. New D30 unit will not stay with me so I can't say if it's just a slightly different unit or will it burn-in and start sounding the same after some time.

From the electronics standpoint there is some merit to the burn-in story. Some electrical components do go trough some changes when we start using them. New electrolytic capacitors for example need to work for a period of time measured in hours before electrolyte levels can settle and specified performance can be fully achieved. Also if not used for a longer period of time, electrolyte levels can slightly change and they may need some working time to recover to there nominal state when we start using them again.

Just to be clear, I'm saying only that there is such thing as burn-in time of some electrical components but I'm not saying that we can hear them in audio equipment. I never did any testing of that sort nor do I have any personal experience about it except mentioned D30s, but that could also be due to other factors.

Too small a sample to make such a definite conclusion. Other factors have possibly not been considered, e.g. out-of-spec or tolerance variation of components.

Of course the sighted comparison process risks unperceived inaccuracies and biases to affect the result.

If an electrolytic capacitor has not been in use for a year or two its leakage current will be higher. It only takes a minute or two for the leakage current to be restored to rated value when the capacitor is re-energised. The higher leakage current probably cannot be detected audibly because our long term 'audio memory' is very unreliable and the restoration time is short.

 

[amirm]

I too have struggled to get measurements that resemble what others have. I figured the issue was how I was setting up REW because I did manage to get measurements that were pretty close once.

If of course know how to use REW well and have attempted to match it to what others have and the results don't correlate well at all. There are just way too many variations in how headphones are mounted on dummy heads and such to produce repeatable results. I do aim to go back to it though as I see ways that measurements can be made more relevant with respect to psychoacoustics.

 

[Headphonaholic]

If of course know how to use REW well and have attempted to match it to what others have and the results don't correlate well at all. There are just way too many variations in how headphones are mounted on dummy heads and such to produce repeatable results. I do aim to go back to it though as I see ways that measurements can be made more relevant with respect to psychoacoustics.

I actually found this site when I was looking for instructions on how to use REW and found your guides . It was probably luck that I managed to get the measurements looking right. They weren't perfect but the overall frequency response shape looked right. Minidsp has released more calibration files as well so maybe the new ones are better? I haven't actually tried them yet.

 

[amirm]

Minidsp has released more calibration files as well so maybe the new ones are better?

Oh, I had not looked. Will have to download and try.

 

[Headphonaholic]

Just popped open the manual to the Massdrop Thx amp and noticed a bit about break-in:

 

[THW]

how did this whole bit about burn-in come about anyway?

heard a lot about it but always thought it was a lot of rubbish for headphones at least.