Equipment burn-in: am I deluded?

[Dogen]

Hi all,
I recently received a Topping D3 DAC/amp. At first it seemed quite tilted up in the high frequencies and lacking in deep bass. After a few days, though, that seems resolved. Did I acclimate to the Topping, or did it change in sound?

I’ve never believed in burn-in, aside from perhaps small changes in new transducers. It’s very possible I just adjusted my ears! Is there any rational basis for the changes I perceived?

BTW, the Topping really functions well as a desktop solution and gives me everything I need in a nice, well built package.

Thanks for any insight,
Bob

 

[AnalogSteph]

A change in perception seems a lot more likely than something actually happening to the equipment. You didn't say what you were using before, I suspect output impedance of the D3 is substantially different.

 

[Dogen]

I was using the analog out of an Airport Express, not ideal. But the changes seemed to happen while the D3 was in service.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Extremely unlikely the equipment audibly changed. Have never seen measurements of this kind of a device during "burn-in" that suggest anything potentially audible could change. There's plenty of evidence on the other hand that psychology deeply affects our perception of audio gear. So the latter is far more likely

 

[mansr]

If burn-in were real, one would expect highly sensitive lab equipment to require it. That is not the case. On the contrary, such devices come with a factory calibration valid for a couple of years.

 

[andreasmaaan]

In other words, not deluded, just human

 

[RayDunzl]

Did I acclimate to the Topping, or did it change in sound?

My Audio buddy (upon whom I depended for musical excitement) bought a Benchmark DAC1 long ago. He didn't tell me.

I was working out of (his) town, but came home for a visit.

I didn't know he'd changed anything.

My first and immediate impression was shrill. He'd been using it for months.

Before I left town again a few days later, it sounded good.

Much later I bought a DAC2. I haven't noticed any change I'd attribute to it in the six years I've been listening through it.

 

[Krunok]

Much later I bought a DAC2. I haven't noticed any change I'd attribute to it in the six years I've been listening through it.

Of course you haven't. It doesn't have moving parts and it doesn't heat to high temps, so I really don't understand from where are the folks getting the idea it would change over time or that it needs some "burn in" time to get to optimal specs. Burn in of what?!?

 

[RayDunzl]

It doesn't have moving parts

It sure does!

That volume knob moves on its own whenever it gets power cycled or you put it in/out of no attenuation mode, or I can move it with the remote.

It's a motorized Alps, that controls digital attenuation for digital inputs, and does analog attenuation for the (seldom used) analog input.

Plus the little buttons on the front. they move when I push on them.

 

[Krunok]

It sure does!

That volume knob moves on its own whenever it gets power cycled or you put it in/out of no attenuation mode, or I can move it with the remote.

It's a motorized Alps, that controls digital attenuation for digital inputs, and does analog attenuation for the (seldom used) analog input.

Plus the little buttons on the front. they move when I push on them.

Oh, you're right, forgot about those. Well, they certainly don't require any "burn in". Given enough time they will cease to function do to the mechanical wear but they certainly don't require any burn in to reach optimal specs. However, gentle handling will certainly prolong their life.

 

[sergeauckland]

I'm amused that burn-in always seems to make thing better. If it were real, I would expect just as many to think the sound changed for the worse as for the better.

As for burning in cables

S

 

[svart-hvitt]

Could we have a list of producers who claim burn-in of gear, so as to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

It could work as a list of warning...

 

[Dogan]

Could we have a list of producers who claim burn-in of gear, so as to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

It could work as a list of warning...

What's your take on this?

https://www.kefdirect.com/blog/some-facts-about-breaking-in-your-new-speakers

Dogan

 

[mi-fu]

The question is: Assuming burn-in has an impact on the sound, why must it be an positive impact? Could burning-in actually make the sound worse?

 

[andreasmaaan]

What's your take on this?

https://www.kefdirect.com/blog/some-facts-about-breaking-in-your-new-speakers

Dogan

There’s no doubt that break-in is real when it comes to speakers.

Solid state electronics are another matter.

 

[Krunok]

What's your take on this?

https://www.kefdirect.com/blog/some-facts-about-breaking-in-your-new-speakers

Dogan

I believe this is legit. Speaker suspension is mechanical part prone to stretching so it would make sense that it needs some time to achieve optimal elasticity.

But for electronics..

 

[Krunok]

There’s no doubt that break-in is real when it comes to speakers.

Solid state electronics are another matter.

LOL - same thougts..

 

[svart-hvitt]

What's your take on this?

https://www.kefdirect.com/blog/some-facts-about-breaking-in-your-new-speakers

Dogan

I trust Genelec in speaker matters. They write:

«No burn in is required nor does it bring you any noticeable performance / sound quality gains. The only thing that changes slightly is the woofer's suspension compliance (the suspension loosens up a bit) which makes the bass sound a little bit more emphasized (than right out of the box), but we are talking about very small differences here. And in any case, this will happen naturally during the few first hours of listening. New GLM calibration is not required or needed».
Source: https://www.community.genelec.com/forum/-/message_boards/view_message/912894#_19_message_912899

So no worry about break in, in other words.

Note that serious speakers manufacturers choose design, materials and production that ensure that one (old) speaker can be replaced by another (new) one and you should still expect the same sound from all the speakers. This is important in audio production, of course, but is also a sort of guarantee that audiophiles as well should welcome.

 

[Krunok]

The question is: Assuming burn-in has an impact on the sound, why must it be an positive impact? Could burning-in actually make the sound worse?

When true burn in happens with electronics I would expect sound to stop and smell to get worse.

 

[DonH56]

Speakers can take seconds to hours or more to "burn in" due to mechanical considerations. I measured that ages ago (and so did many others, of course). Bigger drivers tended to take longer since they had longer spyders and surrounds.

SS electronics generally reach normal operating conditions in seconds or less. Some old class-A amps took longer due to low loop gain (low feedback) and simple (to avoid using the word "poor") bias designs. Most of my life the SS electronics I designed had to work in milliseconds and stay stable over a wide range of environmental conditions (pesky pilots get sooo cranky when the incoming missile on their radar screen wanders around until it warms up). So in general I consider a SS design that requires significant (say >1 s) warm-up time a poor design (let the flames begin).

Tubes, being thermionic devices, take longer and again typically use very "loose" power supplies and limited feedback. My old tube preamp and power amps could take minutes to an hour or so to stabilize. The preamp was a killer as it would send out a pretty high voltage (50 V or more, rapidly decaying) low-frequency signal until it settled down after a minute or so. I built a special relay circuit for that one that had a 3-minute on delay and instantly turned off to protect the power amp and my speakers.

IME/IMO - Don