Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ Review (Bookshelf Speaker)

[sarumbear]

It is super effective for two channel, and luckily there are a handful of devices that can manage the signal path well for very little money (eg, miniDSP).

May I kindly ask you to give some system suggestion with make/models where these speakers and a (any) subwoofer can be used?

 

[nathan]

Depending on your view the A130 is as good or better than the B1+ above the bass region and does have a little more bass in terms of what I see in measurements here on ASR.
Both respond well to PEQ, at least on paper - generating essentially the same level of quality playback.
The "Harman score" slightly favors the JBL A130 both without and with a subwoofer. (JBL 5.1/7.4 Emotiva 4.7/7.1)
Both have very low distortion for the $ class.
The Emotiva is only $229, but not currently in stock. The JBL A130 is $299, often on sale for much less and refurbished versions are often only $150.
It would seem no clear case can be made for either speaker over the other as the JBL is slightly better in testing and is slightly more $ when full price.

I have the A130 and have never heard the B1+.

By no means do I recommend the A130 without bass reinforcement so if the B1+ has less then you need a sub even more so. The A130 needs help just to feel like a "fuller" book shelf, in other words it needs help below 55/60hrz or so. I am not a bass head, I do have musical tastes than include music with bass and the A130 does not provide enough extension. It also has low HD, but due to the small woofer starts to sound strained at fairly high volumes when not high passed. There is no replacement for displacement and the small box and 5" woofer can only do so much. At medium volumes it is very nice.
My JBL 530 easily has notably better extension and can play a hair louder before feeling stressed, although for high output it (like just about every 2 way monitor) must be high passed as the woofer is only a 5" (the tweeter can handle just about anything). At more common volumes it gets by very well without a sub. It is far superior to the A130 as a 2.0 candidate.
Personally while I like the A130, I would pick the 530 at full price ($599), over the A130 at full price ($299). On sale often for $280-300 the 530 is a fantastic deal.

I should note I have the Infinity R152 (often as low as $130 a pair) and also prefer that speaker to the A130. The R152 also need bass help. Additionally I prefer the Infinity R162 (often as low as $160 a pair) to the A130 & the R162 can sound pretty good as a 2.0.
The R152 has not been ASR tested, the R162 has and measured very well.

The ELAC debut B6.2 is another speaker I have owned in this range that measured well here and is often on sale for well under $300. I found that they sounded very nice.

The most obvious value for $ spent leader in my mind is going to a top budget active speaker. No purchase amp required. I mean a pair of JBL or Kali budget monitors is a very $ deal.

Consider the ELAC DBR-62 as well. $600 but very capable - easily worth the extra $$ (on paper at least.)

In any case the A130, in my view - which is based on having owned and currently owning many 2 way monitors, need bass reinforcement in most situations, so therefore the B1+ likely needs it even more and can not be a top budget 2.0 choice but rather one of the top budget 2.1 choices.

Ultimately I use a HP with all my monitors - they sit atop dual 8" woofers that turn them into a 3-way of sorts as they are crossed around 100-150hz depending on the speaker. This really cut the drama out of the monitors woofer excursion.
Right now my favorites among many are the JBL 530 and the Infinity R152. Very good fidelity and very low prices when on sale. If the B1+ is their equal then it is capable of some serious hifi on the cheap.
I am going to try a pair when they are back in stock.

I have the powered Airmotiv in the 4" version from about ten years ago, and anecdotally agree with your view.

 

[nathan]

May I kindly ask you to give some system suggestion with make/models where these speakers and a (any) subwoofer can be used?

This really depends a lot on the room itself. For example, a 10x15 foot room would probably be well served by four 12" ported subs from one of the internet direct brands (eg SVS), run via a miniDSP HD 2x4 to align the subs, eq them based on the Harman research, and crossover the mains to them at a point that makes sense based on room measurements.

 

[sarumbear]

run via a miniDSP HD 2x4 to align the subs, eq them based on the Harman research, and crossover the mains to them at a point that makes sense based on room measurements.

That is not something you can buy off-the-shelf and amplify those speakers then is it? One can do anything as a sound system, if you know how. It is normal for a Hi-Fi buyer to match an amplifier to a speaker. That is why demo rooms exist. However, it is not logical to expect that someone should know the "Harman research" or do room measurements in order to have a Hi-Fi set-up.

Besides, I keep hearing that "it is super effective for two channel, and luckily there are a handful of devices that can manage the signal path well for very little money (eg, miniDSP)" but only one device being mentioned. Is that the only option on the market? Does one have to use miniDSP in order listen music in that "super effective" way?

I am asking to learn not to argue.

 

[nathan]

Sure, there are two channel and multi-channel receivers, processors, and integrated amps that can do bass management well. Heck, I'm using the Paradigm PWAMP in one system (bought direction from Paradigm for $250USD) and it has full ARC that is adjustable to the nth-degree to do this sort of setup. It also has a built in crossover, that one can adjust to whatever crossover point makes sense after measuring one's room, and lots of EQ options, and a solid two channel amp under the hood.....

One can avoid the miniDSP completely if the subwoofers have variable phase and some PEQ (eg, like the SVS pro models, or many of the Rythmiks).....there are also other vendors, like http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products.shtml that do some excellent work. And more and more, systems like Dirac and Anthem RC with some of their hardware are beginning to handle multiple subs and system integration in smart ways.

But skill and learning are required (eg, how to measure a room's response with REW) to knock it out of the park. And that is a HUGE impediment.

In other words, I agree, for a regular person, they are going to be flummoxed: They can spend 10k USD on a pair of full range speakers and get crappy response in room because they don't understand small room acoustics and how room modes work.

And they won't be ready to do the manual setup of something to improve things. The auto systems are getting better but they aren't there, yet, imo. There really isn't an off the self solution, whether one buys these speakers or one spends ten times as much, whether the speakers play down to 80 hz or 20 hz, or whatever.

It is an unfortunate state of affairs and a market opportunity (since the math and technology is not super expensive, just the knowledge and skill are tough) that hopefully will continue to be a target for companies in the future, and a place where incremental improvements will continue to happen.

So, for someone with the skill, these speakers are an excellent bargain around which to build an excellent system.
For someone without the skill, getting an excerpt to assist is worthwhile if one has the budget. This is one of those no brainer investments in my experience.....kind of like "my budget for speakers is $2k, why would I spend a few hundred of that on acoustic treatments and a few hundred more on a acoustician?" and my experience has been a well selected $1k set of speakers set up well in a good room can readily outperform $2k speakers in a poor room set up poorly.
And for someone without the budget and without the skill, well, these speakers would be nice but I'd probably go with the JVC. (Which, by the way, I also have in house, as my speakers for my computer setup, though I am using the powered monitor version. They are a seriously great value -- c. $200 a pair when I bought them.)

 

[ROOSKIE]

That is not something you can buy off-the-shelf and amplify those speakers then is it? One can do anything as a sound system, if you know how. It is normal for a Hi-Fi buyer to match an amplifier to a speaker. That is why demo rooms exist. However, it is not logical to expect that someone should know the "Harman research" or do room measurements in order to have a Hi-Fi set-up.

Besides, I keep hearing that "it is super effective for two channel, and luckily there are a handful of devices that can manage the signal path well for very little money (eg, miniDSP)" but only one device being mentioned. Is that the only option on the market? Does one have to use miniDSP in order listen music in that "super effective" way?

I am asking to learn not to argue.

Yes. The answer is yes. Yes, it is logical to do room measurements if you want to take advantage of one the best ways to maximixe your hifi playback. Like nearly everything else that is awesome the enthusiast has a few things to learn and some work to put in. Doing work is logical, learning is logical, taking on the challenge of doing stuff in a hobby you love is logical - when did it become logical for these things not to be logical?

 

[sarumbear]

Sure, there are two channel and multi-channel receivers, processors, and integrated amps that can do bass management well. Heck, I'm using the Paradigm PWAMP in one system (bought direction from Paradigm for $250USD) and it has full ARC that is adjustable to the nth-degree to do this sort of setup. It also has a built in crossover, that one can adjust to whatever crossover point makes sense after measuring one's room, and lots of EQ options, and a solid two channel amp under the hood.....

Paradigm PW AMP! What a great device! Two of these Emotiva speakers at US$229 plus the PW AMP at US250 looks pretty unbeatable.

However, I cannot find anywhere that sells it. You said you bought direct from Paradigm but as far as I can see they do not sell direct. I searched Google and cannot find anyone selling it either. I read a few reviews but they all say it costs US$499.

Can you list some more make/models that you seem to know exists which has integral cross-over for bass management?

 

[More Dynamics Please]

The Paradigm PW Amp was reviewed right here on ASR:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-paradigm-pw-amp.7728/

 

[sarumbear]

Yes, it is logical to do room measurements if you want to take advantage of one the best ways to maximixe your hifi playback.

It sure is the best way but I beg to differ about its logicality for someone just to listen music. I suggest we agree to disagree.

 

[sarumbear]

The Paradigm PW Amp was reviewed right here on ASR:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...iew-and-measurements-of-paradigm-pw-amp.7728/

I missed this review as it was reviewed before I joined the forum. But oh dear! What a disappointing engineering...

I guess the manufacturer has stopped selling it after this review.

 

[nathan]

Here is essentially the same product, under their sister brand. Actually, this one is a little better because

1. It also supports Airplay, which is convenient.
2. It is actually still available ($249).

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/forte

I realize the review of the PWAMP wasn't laudatory, but I have to admit, maybe my Revel speakers aren't revealing enough to make that a concern, or maybe using ARC to control room modes makes more of a positive impact than the negative measurements do.

I don't think they stopped making it because of the review on ASR. I think they started phasing out their whole line of wireless gear long before that, since it didn't get a solid footing in the marketplace.

One won't win any audiophile credibility points but people like Sonos also make two channel gear with integrated bass management (though I don't think it is as flexible). And of course there are other brands, tiers, solutions with similar feature sets.....though I tend to agree with the tinkerers that a custom setup with something like a miniDSP is where one ends up after trying all the off the self solutions, unless you can afford a five figure+ system with professional installation.

 

[ROOSKIE]

It sure is the best way but I beg to differ about its logicality for someone just to listen music. I suggest we agree to disagree.

If you just want to listen to music then you have absolutely no need to be on a gear forum and zero need to discuss hifi.
Why waste your time and everyone's?
You can just listen to music on a phone, some earbuds, through your tv, your car.
The problem has been easily solved for you.
You can pull into the dock, no more trolling required to catch your tasty fish.

 

[nathan]

It sure is the best way but I beg to differ about its logicality for someone just to listen music. I suggest we agree to disagree.

I won't bemoan someone that loves music and just wants to unbox a sound bar and enjoy. Totally legit.

Also totally unrealistic in today's world to expect that that is how easy the best music playback experience is going to be achieved.

I think there's room for both.

I love that ASR helps crazy people like me tweak common and uncommon gear in simple and complicated ways to get the most from it.

 

[sarumbear]

If you just want to listen to music then you have absolutely no need to be on a gear forum and zero need to discuss hifi.

Thank you for the sermon even though it was not called for.

 

[sarumbear]

Here is essentially the same product, under their sister brand. Actually, this one is a little better because

1. It also supports Airplay, which is convenient.
2. It is actually still available ($249).

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/forte

Paradigm specs says it is also AirPlay compatible. However, my problem is I cannot see the prices on either products’ website. Maybe because I’m in UK? Neither I can see anyone selling when I search Google, at any price.

That is why I’ve been asking suggestions for makes/models. So far there is nothing available for me.

 

[nathan]

Paradigm's site is misleading. SOME of their wireless speakers /components in the PW lineup are Airplay compatible, but not the PWAMP. I know because: 1) I own it, and 2) I spoke with Paradigm about it.

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That being said, the Martin Logan version of the amp specifically claims to support Airplay, so if that is important, that is worthwhile exploring. And Martin Logan is still closing out their version, direct on their US web site, for a stellar price.

Maybe you would have to use a VPN to get to the US web site? I don't know that they would ship to the UK. Ebay may also be an option. For example, Paradigm has an official eBay account and was ALSO selling off their PW series gear that way when they were closing it out.

I guess I should note: I was hesitant to buy a discontinued product but for the price it seemed like a gamble worth trying. (I mean if someone said you could by Anthem Room Correction for $250, you'd likely say that was a bargain.) And, since it is based on the playfi platform, which while anemic doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, I was moderately hopeful that software updates would continue to roll out for some time (which, so far, has continued to be the case).

 

[ROOSKIE]

Paradigm's site is misleading. SOME of their wireless speakers /components in the PW lineup are Airplay compatible, but not the PWAMP. I know because: 1) I own it, and 2) I spoke with Paradigm about it.

View attachment 124328

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That being said, the Martin Logan version of the amp specifically claims to support Airplay, so if that is important, that is worthwhile exploring. And Martin Logan is still closing out their version, direct on their US web site, for a stellar price.

Maybe you would have to use a VPN to get to the US web site? I don't know that they would ship to the UK. Ebay may also be an option. For example, Paradigm has an official eBay account and was ALSO selling off their PW series gear that way when they were closing it out.

I guess I should note: I was hesitant to buy a discontinued product but for the price it seemed like a gamble worth trying. (I mean if someone said you could by Anthem Room Correction for $250, you'd likely say that was a bargain.) And, since it is based on the playfi platform, which while anemic doesn't seem to be going away any time soon, I was moderately hopeful that software updates would continue to roll out for some time (which, so far, has continued to be the case).

I have never used Anthem RC.
I will be looking into this more. One quick question before I go on my own and investigate.
How much manual tweaking is allowed on this box?
I might need one of these for 2nd system. Seems to be very reasonable for $250.

 

[nathan]

I have never used Anthem RC.
I will be looking into this more. One quick question before I go on my own and investigate.
How much manual tweaking is allowed on this box?
I might need one of these for 2nd system. Seems to be very reasonable for $250.

I guess the best answer is zero tweaking EXCEPT what is possible through Anthem Room Correction, which includes things like curtains, crossover, shaping the eq curve, etc. via a computer running Anthem Room Correction.

 

[sarumbear]

Martin Logan is still closing out their version, direct on their US web site, for a stellar price.

Maybe you would have to use a VPN to get to the US web site? I don't know that they would ship to the UK. Ebay may also be an option. For example, Paradigm has an official eBay account.

The crutch of the matter is, as I keep proving, there is no option on the “market” to allow using small speakers with a subwoofer other than the ubiquitous miniDSP and a decent computer literacy (or a 5+ channel AVR). There seems to be a solution with those amps for a while but only in USA and even that no longer exists.

 

[nathan]

I'm not sure I follow your line of thought. Sonos, Outlaw, Parasound, Heos (Denon) amp, Yamaha, and others I don't recall at the moment, are just some of the two channel amps/integrated amps that offer a subwoofer crossover/bass management system in the two channel realm.

Alternately, there are still excellent subs that have crossovers in them that let one high and low pass the signal in the sub.

But the reason folks like the miniDSP so much is that it allows a lot flexibility and control in a convenient package, so its easier than (for example) adjusting phase, delay, polarity, level, and PEQ on a set of subs themselves.

But back on topic, I'm glad that the testing done here presents the data in a way that one can decide for oneself if the gear fits one's use case, other equipment, room, listening habits, skills set, and needs