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Dynaudio Emit M10 Review (bookshelf speaker)

Steve Dallas

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Not sure how much the rear ports were causing your issues.

Seems the corner loading of one speaker being right against the wall, and both speakers having lots of reflective wood under the front of them, extending out 4-5 inches may have caused some of the issues also.

It was BOOM! city with rear ported speakers (not limited to the M10s--tried a few). The front ported Elac Debuts and Q100s sounded the best, but Wifey vetoed the gargantuan Elacs.

Sure, nothing is environmentally right with that location, but pumping the port into a cubby and exciting the resonances of all that wood was not a good choice for clean lows. Front ports are still not great, but much better.
 

MZKM

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I would assume that means a coil on the woofer and a series cap + a parallel inductor on the tweeter. first order electrical-second order electrical
Ahh, that makes sense.

Don’t 2nd order crossovers sum at -6dB and 1sr order crossovers at -3dB? If so, ideally would would be the reduction in SPL for both if you had both? Sorry for the barrage of questions.


I know that Audioholics measured the Denon AVR crossover to be 12dB/oct on the speakers and 20dB/oct on the sub:
image
 

temps

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Dynaudio knows what they are doing and I suspect that they have determined that it is better for their speakers to have a recognizable sound rather than a neutral one. I wouldn't buy these but I can see the appeal from the few I have heard.

Their pro audio line doesn't have the same problem, so I'd say it's quite intentional.
 

617

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Ahh, that makes sense.

Don’t 2nd order crossovers sum at -6dB and 1sr order crossovers at -3dB? If so, ideally would would be the reduction in SPL for both if you had both? Sorry for the barrage of questions.


I know that Audioholics measured the Denon AVR crossover to be 12dB/oct on the speakers and 20dB/oct on the sub:
image
The reality of driver summation is quite complex, or perhaps you might say messier. In practice the slopes of the two drivers might not match, and so the 'crossover point' is just an arbitrary frequency where they happen to be playing at the same level. If you're approximating a second order LR slope you will have to invert one of the drivers. If summation at the crossover point is a bit high, you can bring the frequency of the low pass filter up a bit, or the high pass filter down a bit, or you can change the level of the tweeter, or the slope of either driver. In other words, you use whatever electrical components shape the response to get the response you want in space, while hopefully keeping impedance high (since the drivers are playing in parallel, their impedance at frequencies where they play together will be lower - just like a 4 ohm resistor in parallel with another 4 ohm resistor will create a net resistance of two ohms, two speakers with an impedance of 4 ohms at the crossover point will have 2 ohms at that point.)

Since the crossover point tends to be where the greatest directivity discontinuity is, having a peak here might not be a bad idea, since off axis the response may be smoother, and on axis it might sound 'detailed'. If you want actual smooth accurate response through the crossover region you're going to either want a two way with a small woofer and big tweeter, a three or four way speaker, or use a waveguide.

The first order approach does blend the drivers really well, which can reduce directivity issues, but you then run into another problem where the drivers drift out of phase due to the enormous bandwidth they cover. The lobing of first order networks is no bueno, and there will be axis where the response is really bad.
 

restorer-john

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"Bookshelf" speakers never were actually suitable for bookshelves though were they?

I dunno, the first pair of speakers I remember as a very small child were Goodmans Maxims that my Dad had on his bookshelf, alongside all his textbooks. But I think they were just for his office system. There were other real speakers that were bigger than me.

JBL for years marketed the Century L-100 as a 'bookshelf speaker'. No IKEA 'bookshelf' is gonna hold them for long. ;)
 

ROOSKIE

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Ahh, that makes sense.

Don’t 2nd order crossovers sum at -6dB and 1sr order crossovers at -3dB? If so, ideally would would be the reduction in SPL for both if you had both? Sorry for the barrage of questions.


I know that Audioholics measured the Denon AVR crossover to be 12dB/oct on the speakers and 20dB/oct on the sub:
image
Honestly those number are based on a theoretical flat line response. No driver in existence has this and many are very far from such a response.
Whatever the electrical order of the crossover is and how they sum in theory doesn't really matter at all.
You design using measurements and software that takes into account each driver specific responses, impedance thru frequency range and breakup energy.
The db/ocate shtick is for marketing and general ease of communication only. Designs deviate electrically often and IMHO they better if you want a good acoustic match which is the only aspect that matters regardless of what a flat line 4ohm constant impedance load would give you.

By the way I overlap my subs and monitors and then cut back any peaks with PEQ.
The drivers will sum as one at these low frequencies as long as they are within 2-4 feet of each other (4 feet if crossed lower, 2 if higher)
You just need to make sure they are both pushing and pulling in sync.
This really helps balance out some of the SBIR nulls I get.
I use high order fliters as well so there is minimal overlap once they leave the zone I have designated for such overlap.
 
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ROOSKIE

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The first order approach does blend the drivers really well, which can reduce directivity issues, but you then run into another problem where the drivers drift out of phase due to the enormous bandwidth they cover. The lobing of first order networks is no bueno, and there will be axis where the response is really bad.
I don't have much experience using 1st order.
That said, I really like higher order crossovers and with DSP it is just so easy now. I feel I get the best sound with minimal mid and tweet overlap. Done right(or at least I hope what I have done is right) the sound is just incredible with no sense of mismatch and absolute HIFI.
I my current project the tweeter is about 36ish db/octave acoustic and the woofer maybe right around 24db octave acoustic. I plan to experiment with even higher slopes however getting 8th order acoustic is a bit tricky and maybe to much of an on/off transition.

Anyway I am not saying 1st order can't sound good, I just don't see the point in blending over a wide range with modern drivers being so extended and robust and all the down sides that come with all that overlap.

Sound like a recipe for uneven response on many levels and a review like the one here of this Dyn, excellent drivers crippled needlessly. (or as suggested prevously by others, purely for BS Audio marketing and cost cutting)
 

MrPeabody

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I don't have a strong sense of whether this speaker is or isn't a good value at $800 the pair, but it seems to me that there is a lot to like about it. In particular, distortion is a lot lower than it is with most all other small speakers this size. The tweeter is exceptionally clean, and even the woofer holds up fairly well, compared to most of the other speakers we've seen with woofers this small. We do of course see some mild distortion peaks below 500 Hz, but at the more reasonable volume level of 86 dB at 1 meter you don't seem them at all. By comparison, with many other small speakers, distortion at 96 dB is practically through the roof starting just below 500 Hz. The biggest wart that I see is in the uneven directivity, but I could live with that. As for the rise in response at higher frequency, the tweeter's response is exceptionally smooth, so if the speakers sounds bright, all that would be needed to correct the brightness would be to pad the tweeter by -2 dB to maybe -3 dB. This is a trivial thing to do and should take care of it. The response above 10 kHz would droop as a result, but thus wouldn't bother me in the least. Off the top of my head I don't recall many speakers at lower cost that don't have bigger warts.
 

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What happened to the beamwidth and polar maps for this one btw? Just realized there aren't any.
 
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amirm

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What happened to the beamwidth and polar maps for this one btw? Just realized there aren't any.
I forgot about them. :) Not been feeling well for the last few days. I will post later today.
 

dfuller

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I don't have a strong sense of whether this speaker is or isn't a good value at $800 the pair, but it seems to me that there is a lot to like about it. In particular, distortion is a lot lower than it is with most all other small speakers this size. The tweeter is exceptionally clean, and even the woofer holds up fairly well, compared to most of the other speakers we've seen with woofers this small. We do of course see some mild distortion peaks below 500 Hz, but at the more reasonable volume level of 86 dB at 1 meter you don't seem them at all. By comparison, with many other small speakers, distortion at 96 dB is practically through the roof starting just below 500 Hz. The biggest wart that I see is in the uneven directivity, but I could live with that. As for the rise in response at higher frequency, the tweeter's response is exceptionally smooth, so if the speakers sounds bright, all that would be needed to correct the brightness would be to pad the tweeter by -2 dB to maybe -3 dB. This is a trivial thing to do and should take care of it. The response above 10 kHz would droop as a result, but thus wouldn't bother me in the least. Off the top of my head I don't recall many speakers at lower cost that don't have bigger warts.
I feel like a steeper crossover (maybe if you wanted to have a project, conversion to active with half-decent class D plate amps and active DSP x-overs) would help with the directivity error some too.
 
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I don't have much experience using 1st order.
That said, I really like higher order crossovers and with DSP it is just so easy now. I feel I get the best sound with minimal mid and tweet overlap. Done right(or at least I hope what I have done is right) the sound is just incredible with no sense of mismatch and absolute HIFI.
I my current project the tweeter is about 36ish db/octave acoustic and the woofer maybe right around 24db octave acoustic. I plan to experiment with even higher slopes however getting 8th order acoustic is a bit tricky and maybe to much of an on/off transition.

Anyway I am not saying 1st order can't sound good, I just don't see the point in blending over a wide range with modern drivers being so extended and robust and all the down sides that come with all that overlap.

Sound like a recipe for uneven response on many levels and a review like the one here of this Dyn, excellent drivers crippled needlessly. (or as suggested prevously by others, purely for BS Audio marketing and cost cutting)

The best reason for low crossover slopes is to blend together two drivers with wildly different dispersion. 24db/octave slopes are not unusual and can work well if the drivers are matches well. A 4 way like the revel salon with an upper and lower mid, and woofers not much bigger, could do fourth order on all crossovers and it would work pretty well. For a traditional 3 way with baffle mounted drivers I think second order is the sweet spot.
 

MrPeabody

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I feel like a steeper crossover (maybe if you wanted to have a project, conversion to active with half-decent class D plate amps and active DSP x-overs) would help with the directivity error some too.

Possibly, but one thing we learned from ctrl's simulations last summer was that "directivity error" is an effect due to both (a) the natural directivity mismatch of the large and small driver, and (b) a diffraction effect. The only thing that I know of that will make an appreciable improvement is a waveguide, or, for people who don't like waveguides and who would be content with a less appreciable improvement, an different sort of major alteration to the baffle, with strongly rounded edges and sloping side edges. Major changes of this sort will affect the frequency response such that corrections to the crossover become necessary. In essence you are almost starting over and building a new speaker from scratch. My take on the matter is that if the lack of smoothness in the off-axis response is going to bother you, look for a different speaker. I could live with this speaker and would not mind padding the tweeter, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who feels strongly about the importance of a smooth off-axis response.
 

Steve Dallas

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M10 vs X14 PIR:
M10 vs X14 PIR.png


Hmmm...
 

Billy Budapest

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Look like some pretty nicely designed drivers - especially the tweeter.
Dynaudio is a world class driver manufacturer so that shows here IMHO.
$800 USD a pair is a bit steep compared to the competition, to be said you are getting some good in house manufacturing.
In Europe these cost less.

These do not appear to have been manufactured in house. Instead, the serial plate says “Made in China.”

I am unsure, too, if Dynaudio makes all of its drivers in-house. Their drivers used to be made in two places, Denmark or Israel (contracted out to Morel). Don’t know if they are contracting driver manufacture out to China these days.
 

Sugarbubble

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The measurements are nice for an entry level speaker from a high end brand. My pair of Dynaudio Special Heritages have been ordered
 

Xyrium

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See what's really interesting is they don't bother with low order crossovers in their actives - they're using 4th or 5th order active analogs in their BM line and full-on DSP in the LYDs and Cores. It's just their passives.

Indeed, and they moved that xover point pretty darned high in the latest offerings.

I had the Emit 10s, and they definitely shoot for that "presence" and "air".

That said, talk to me about those Footprints! I've been considering the 02's for some time now, and was hoping they'd get measured here and unseat my 8030's.
 
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