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Dynaudio Emit M10 Review (bookshelf speaker)

YSC

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#41
Kind of expected after Excite 14 was measured and wasn't great either.
But I really hope someone has recent Contour or Focus or Confidence models to loan for measurements. From my listening impressions, they are way ahead of lower models.


Dynaudio recommends something like >50 cm from the walls in all directions (back and side). And >2 meters to listener. Classic setup for hi-fi really.
If so it seems it’s really not that bookshelf friendly
 

neph

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#42
This is the place where measurements and peer reviewed research matters.

If you take a deep dive you are going to find plenty of simiar posts here. Disappointing measurements and new fellow posting their first post to defend the product they own with typical audiophoolery jargon like measurements dont tell all etc.

Right set of measurements tells exactly what we need to know.
This response is elitistic, antiscience, anti-forum and the definition of gatekeeping.

The fact that we have a vast understanding of physics and measurement datasets does not mean that "the science has settled", as the scientific fallacy states.

Measurement interpretation and comparison/correlation to subjective experiences are still essential for in the context of a forum that holds "science" as prefix.

Heck, even the most known metric for preference, flawed or not, is a transfer function calibrated by subjective evaluation.
 

Hephaestus

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#43
This response is elitistic, antiscience, anti-forum and the definition of gatekeeping.

The fact that we have a vast understanding of physics and measurement datasets does not mean that "the science has settled", as the scientific fallacy states.

Measurement interpretation and comparison/correlation to subjective experiences are still essential for in the context of a forum that holds "science" as prefix.

Heck, even the most known metric for preference, flawed or not, is a transfer function calibrated by subjective evaluation.
You are partially right - I was way too harsh. Elitistic ... hmmm. I have to do some quiet time. Thanks for the feedback.
 
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Steve Dallas

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#44
Dynaudio has always struck me as an engineering brand that unnecessarily ties one hand behind itself (eg. the slavish obsession with first-order slopes), focusing on aspects with dubious audibility while compromising aspects known to be very audible indeed. We can see some of that ability in the distortion and decent control of the port. They have that massive "Jupiter" chamber anechoic down to 20Hz of course, so they could easily get high-res measurements and iterate. And they've probably long-amortised the bulk of development for that large voice-coil midwoofer design of theirs, with subsequent improvements being incremental within that archetype.
The release of the Emit line preceded completion of the Jupiter system by several years.

I agree with the rest of your post!

Likewise:
2nd passive Dynaudio tested and is also not meeting sensitivity spec (error is about the same of ~3dB). I’ll just repost the comment I gave in the past thread:
That test facility was not complete when the Emit and Excite lines were released. They were developed the old fashioned way.

https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-a...jupiter-delivers-dynaudio-s-trademark-quality

I believe the Evoke was the first passive developed with Jupiter.
 
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PeteL

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#46
Kind of expected after Excite 14 was measured and wasn't great either.
But I really hope someone has recent Contour or Focus or Confidence models to loan for measurements. From my listening impressions, they are way ahead of lower models.


Dynaudio recommends something like >50 cm from the walls in all directions (back and side). And >2 meters to listener. Classic setup for hi-fi really.
I have to say that I don't own any back ported speakers now for this very reason. I am surprised that I read that 5 cm Genelec recommendation pop up quite often in the comments, and more generally speaking often being mentioned that rear ports distance are not really an issue as long as their is a bit of room to breathe, often from quite knowledgeable people. I am missing technical knowledge about that, but I did have rear ported speakers in the past and I could swear I was hearing negative effects at distances of about a feet and that the effect is just much less present with front ports, but having not compare or evaluated lately, It makes me doubt my ears, or maybe It could even be about something else than the port and I was not comparing apple to apple, or maybe the good old expectation Bias, but I see here that back wall recommendation vary between models. So, Can we conclude rigorously it has nothing to do with the port and it's a misconception? Anybody could, for personal education point me to good reading material on the subject so I could understand?
 

PeteL

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#48
Here is a German article (best use google or deepl.com to translate to English) which measured a loudspeaker with a rear port being placed 1 meter and only 10 cm from the wall. https://www.visaton.de/en/node/51

What kind of negative effects did you hear?
Muddy bass, but again, as I wrote, maybe I jumped to conclusion based on parameters other than the fact that it was back ported.
 
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#49
Like you write it is interesting how individual perception behaves as when comparing its predicted in room response to the one KRK Rokit 5 you just reviewed before

View attachment 115978

it has neither more treble, nor less deep bass and even more upper bass, the only region where it has less level are the upper mids from 300 to 700 Hz.
Well I remember "reference" slightly U-shaped FR of JBL 708P as well, declared as a true pro-grade instrument (while being all way much worse than, say, Neumanns). I get this as unbiased science.

At the same time I've heard smaller Excites, X12 IIRC some years (same scheme as M10, maybe better drivers) before and they seemed nicely balanced, maybe a bit bass-light and slightly treble-accentuated but hithing i'd really worry about. Overall easy-to-listen and joyful speakers. Yep, these https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-excite-x12-loudspeaker-measurements
 
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PeteL

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#50
Here is a German article (best use google or deepl.com to translate to English) which measured a loudspeaker with a rear port being placed 1 meter and only 10 cm from the wall. https://www.visaton.de/en/node/51

What kind of negative effects did you hear?
But do we agree that some speakers are less impacted in their response at short backwall distances than others? and what could be the reason, let's say for similar woofer size and similar natural roll off slope?

Edit:
My current main speakers are a good but simple 2 way Troels Gravesen design that documented both option of front or back. I DIYed with front port but realize now it could have been a misconception, but still this "wrong" idea was quite commonly spread. I love them and would not change it, but yeah I could live without the blowdryer in my face for bass heavy content, if really sonically it doesn't change a thing....
 
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thewas

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#51
But do we agree that some speakers are less impacted in their response at short backwall distances than others?
Wouldn't know why they should (except air flow problems/noises at very short distances) since radiation at those frequencies is always spherical as shown also at above article.

I rather think some loudspeakers could be more impacted when they already have a FR bump in thhat region, but nothing that an EQ couldn't fix.
 

Duraace9sp

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#52
The release of the Emit line preceded completion of the Jupiter system by several years.

I agree with the rest of your post!

Likewise:


That test facility was not complete when the Emit and Excite lines were released. They were developed the old fashioned way.

https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-a...jupiter-delivers-dynaudio-s-trademark-quality

I believe the Evoke was the first passive developed with Jupiter.

Interesting is the image of the speaker in the Dyn factory testing array - is the speaker I have a FR FL in my system - and these were wwaaayyy before the Emit lines (these are my speakers in this test - planned for my rear heights) were introduced - Thats the Confidence C2 series in the image - and I went to the Emits as it allowed all my speakers to be theoretically similar as all the rest and confidence or contours.....

None of that matters - I was just noting the image had a speaker that i have had 10 years at least....
 

YSC

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#53
Here is a German article (best use google or deepl.com to translate to English) which measured a loudspeaker with a rear port being placed 1 meter and only 10 cm from the wall. https://www.visaton.de/en/node/51

What kind of negative effects did you hear?
for my layman guess the distance is more about the tube shape interaction with the back wall, like for some shapes or opening if placed too close it will obstruct the air flow enough to cause turbulance and thus the response
 

Steve Dallas

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#54
Interesting is the image of the speaker in the Dyn factory testing array - is the speaker I have a FR FL in my system - and these were wwaaayyy before the Emit lines (these are my speakers in this test - planned for my rear heights) were introduced - Thats the Confidence C2 series in the image - and I went to the Emits as it allowed all my speakers to be theoretically similar as all the rest and confidence or contours.....

None of that matters - I was just noting the image had a speaker that i have had 10 years at least....
That is interesting. Jupiter came online in December 2016. They may have been testing older speakers to establish a database or achieve a baseline for their older measurement techniques?

https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-a...-new-dynaudio-research-and-development-center

The rear-ported "bookshelf" discussion is also interesting. I had a pair of Emit M10s that were purchased for a bookcase in my living room. I could not get them to perform at a satisfactory level with or without port plugs. (Note: I do not have DSP capability in that room, simple bass and treble controls only.) I ended up with front-ported KEF Q100s in that location and have been much happier.

Challenging for any speaker:
20190304_144354.jpg
 
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SMc

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#55
I loved my little emit M20s when i had them. Certainly didnt strike me as bright, maybe a little dark even.
I can hear some brightness in the similar DM 2/7. Near-wall placement made a big subjective difference as they could be harsh with some music. I assume the larger woofer makes a difference compared to the Emit 10.
 

Soniclife

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#56
But do we agree that some speakers are less impacted in their response at short backwall distances than others? and what could be the reason, let's say for similar woofer size and similar natural roll off slope?
Some speakers have their response tailored to work with the boost being next to the wall gives, some are designed for free space. Wherever you put them the room changes the response, which is why you should use EQ. Putting small speakers near the wall for the boost, and avoiding some SBIR dips is often easier to EQ, and helps them with headroom and distortion.
 

Soniclife

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#57
My current main speakers are a good but simple 2 way Troels Gravesen design that documented both option of front or back. I DIYed with front port but realize now it could have been a misconception, but still this "wrong" idea was quite commonly spread.
It's a rare 2 way that does not leak midrange from its port, putting it on the back can help make it less audible, or it might just move the audible problem to a different frequency. Speaker designers should be in top of this, but it's clear from measurements many don't optimise it. The common wisdom spread about ports are often backwards.
 

PeteL

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#59
It's a rare 2 way that does not leak midrange from its port, putting it on the back can help make it less audible, or it might just move the audible problem to a different frequency. Speaker designers should be in top of this, but it's clear from measurements many don't optimise it. The common wisdom spread about ports are often backwards.
OK, just to be clear, do you mean by that that it's a good thing that he states that both options are correct? In any case they measure well, I don't have an issue in the mid range, I can feel the wind that's all but I am happy how they perform.
 

Soniclife

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#60
OK, just to be clear, do you mean by that that it's a good thing that he states that both options are correct? In any case they measure well, I don't have an issue in the mid range, I can feel the wind that's all but I am happy how they perform.
I've no idea about your specific speakers, both options can be made to work well. If you put a mic into the port and run a frequency sweep you can see how much midrange leaks out of it.
 
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