Cheaper than the Kii's around £8k per pair inc vat and 1000w of raw power!
Keith
Of course one of the reasons why you might need all that power is that if you want to get deep bass out of a tiny sealed box, it is highly inefficient. There's an article on the raw nuts and bolts of it here:... 1000w of raw power!
This is why the Devialet Phantom. Kiis, Beolabs etc. need incredible amounts of power but don't go all that loud. I think they also need to protect themselves if driven too hard/too long which, being DSP-based, they can do "subtly" by reducing the bass.If we are to operate the sub from 60Hz (my goal from the beginning), we will increase the power by 12dB for each octave, so if 20W is needed at 60Hz, then at 30Hz this has increased to 320W, and at 15Hz, you will need over 5kW...
...Given the performance, I would never consider a conventional sub again
This is why the Devialet Phantom. Kiis, Beolabs etc. need incredible amounts of power but don't go all that loud. I think they also need to protect themselves if driven too hard/too long which, being DSP-based, they can do "subtly" by reducing the bass.
Yes I agree.The Dynaudio LYD series of monitors actually implements a little bit of Fletcher Munsen correction via DSP to make the speakers sound "the same" at high and low volume.
What I like about the 'little speaker with very poor efficiency, high power, and good bass extension at moderate SPLs' is that it solves the majority of the use cases in home audio, for most normal people.
Even with DSP and active monitors, physics is physics, and for high SPLs + deep bass, clever little boxes only take you so far. BUT paying the price, both in money and space, that big boxes require is a high price to pay for functionality that most people don't use 90-95% of the time.
I think it's a sensible compromise that will suit most people better than a giant pair of Klipschorns or similar.
These look very intriguing!
Agreed: this is the future right here.
But concerning bass: isn't there an argument to be made for bigger bass drivers, even though you can push small drivers to go low with eq and enormous amounts of power? I've always found bigger bass drivers to sound better and more natural in their presentation than smaller drivers. My Sonos play 5 that I have in the kitchen goes deep, but the bass still doesn't sound natural.
(not to mention intermodulation/doppler distortion)
Yes, of course. If you don't care about size, bigger is better for bass.
But I think part of the USP for Kii, Dutch & Dutch, etc, is to offer more bass from a smallish box than has been possible before.
But it really isn't that difficult to properly integrate two extra subwoofers by using DSP these days, which can be found in living room friendly designs. But this requires some hassle and know-how, of course.
I think integrating multiple subwoofers for music (as opposed to movies) is harder to do seamlessly than most home users want to, or have the skills and inclination, to deal with.
Whats the barrier that's preventing a pair of active speakers being paired and synced ( setup right) with multiple wireless subs.. Place 4 subs in best positions possible along with your two speakers , place a mic where you sit ( or multiple mics for best advarage performance if more than one listener) and press automatic setup button .. Various test tones sound and the relevant adjustments made..I think integrating multiple subwoofers for music (as opposed to movies) is harder to do seamlessly than most home users want to, or have the skills and inclination, to deal with.
The interesting thing is that subwoofers done well are very non-obvious - which is how it should be. A chap up the road has such a setup - a frequency sweep demonstrated very clean, and fully present tones; they were just there, to the depths, with no fuss. Probably would be very boring for many audiophiles - because the result wasn't spectacular! On some tracks you could feel the meat being added, but that didn't compensate for issues elsewhere ...Yes, it needs some skill. One challenge for example is to find subwoofers that are reasonably similar in tonal character to the bass drivers of the main speakers, and also have low levels of distortion. I would still say that DSP/eq/room correction is a must if one wants to integrate subwoofers properly. I'm not sold on room correction above the transition frequency, but for integrating subwoofers it's a godsend.
Whats the barrier that's preventing a pair of active speakers being paired and synced ( setup right) with multiple wireless subs.. Place 4 subs in best positions possible along with your two speakers , place a mic where you sit ( or multiple mics for best advarage performance if more than one listener) and press automatic setup button .. Various test tones sound and the relevant adjustments made..
The interesting thing is that subwoofers done well are very non-obvious - which is how it should be. A chap up the road has such a setup - a frequency sweep demonstrated very clean, and fully present tones; they were just there, to the depths, with no fuss. Probably would be very boring for many audiophiles - because the result wasn't spectacular! On some tracks you could feel the meat being added, but that didn't compensate for issues elsewhere ...
Of course, the material has to be in the track for that to happen - in real life, moving around on the streets, listening to live acoustic music happening ... I don't get this!! On a track with synthesized stuff, I could imagine it - but that's for the effect - basspig's layout would be the one to get the full monty, when he plays Korean pop ...No, this is 100% wrong.
Properly set up subwoofers should make you feel like you're about to have a bowel movement and wonder if you are on Molly.
Whats the barrier that's preventing a pair of active speakers being paired and synced ( setup right) with multiple wireless subs.. Place 4 subs in best positions possible along with your two speakers , place a mic where you sit ( or multiple mics for best advarage performance if more than one listener) and press automatic setup button .. Various test tones sound and the relevant adjustments made..
Maybe not quite as sophisticated as what Thomas describes but the latest AVR/PrePro with something like DiracLive is getting damn close.In theory, nothing. But I don't know of anything that works this way that is currently being sold.
Maybe not quite as sophisticated as what Thomas describes but the latest AVR/PrePro with something like DiracLive is getting damn close.