Do I "need" room correction

[alaios]

Greeting everyone.
Welcome to one more subjective discussion where I ask for your subjectivity.

Do I really need room correction? I have recently listened to the room correction (after callibration) of the entry level lyngdorf
(tda 1120 if I am not wrong). The calibration was done by a professional.

I could hear some differences but I have found those to be smallish. I also learned and I can confirm this that room correction does not improve staging. Staging is more affected by room and speaker placement and I have done indeed as much as I could for that regard.
My room measurements also show that I have kind of ok room and frequency responses is not all over the place.

Can I just survive with a more "normal" amplifier where room correction is not there or am I missing some important elements in my understanding.

Regards,
Alex

Post Updated with the measurements with some 10 mins tuning of subs

 

[voodooless]

Do you have the measurements of before and after? If so, share them!

In general, you may just not like the target curve chosen. There are endless ways to tweak the response, and it will need some tweaking to tailor it to your liking.

 

[fpitas]

It depends on your room and its modes. For example, I have a big peak at 41 Hz and another smaller one at 163Hz. Judicious EQ flattens them, and the bass sounds nice and taut like good headphones. But YMMV...

 

[kemmler3D]

Greeting everyone.
Welcome to one more subjective discussion where I ask for your subjectivity.

Do I really need room correction? I have recently listened to the room correction (after callibration) of the entry level lyngdorf
(tda 1120 if I am not wrong). The calibration was done by a professional.

I could hear some differences but I have found those to be smallish. I also learned and I can confirm this that room correction does not improve staging. Staging is more affected by room and speaker placement and I have done indeed as much as I could for that regard.
My room measurements also show that I have kind of ok room and frequency responses is not all over the place.

Can I just survive with a more "normal" amplifier where room correction is not there or am I missing some important elements in my understanding.

Regards,
Alex

IMO the difference you hear in bass up to 150-200hz or so is really night-and-day. Uncorrected, bass notes tend to boom and disappear as they go up and down the scale... we tend to accept this because it's common, but once you stop having to listen to music that way, it's really nice.

Room correction does not have to be expensive. There are ways to get it into your existing system over a SPDIF connection for less than $100, or if you're willing to take a (admittedly significant) hit on SINAD you can do DSP with analog connections for about $40! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-wondom-adau1701-dsp-unit.46656/

 

[alaios]

Greeting everyone.
As I am low on budget this is my question.

I am thinking ying an integrated amp that has two pre-out (left and right).
I am trying to understand if in the future (when I would be able to spend bit more) I cantake the two pre outs and add them to some preprocessing unit to adjust for my room that I would then feed into my aplifier.

Also do I understand correctly that in the described scheme above; the amplifier just applies a constant gain and is the preamplifier output that drives the amplifier? If I am not then wrong the remote control of the integrated amp can be used to also drive the volume up and down of the whole new system.


Please enlighten me

 

[krabapple]

Greeting everyone.
Welcome to one more subjective discussion where I ask for your subjectivity.

Do I really need room correction?

Typically, yes, in the bass frequencies.

Also, loudness compensation.

But you can certainly 'survive' without them.

 

[alaios]

IMO the difference you hear in bass up to 150-200hz or so is really night-and-day. Uncorrected, bass notes tend to boom and disappear as they go up and down the scale... we tend to accept this because it's common, but once you stop having to listen to music that way, it's really nice.

Room correction does not have to be expensive. There are ways to get it into your existing system over a SPDIF connection for less than $100, or if you're willing to take a (admittedly significant) hit on SINAD you can do DSP with analog connections for about $40! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-wondom-adau1701-dsp-unit.46656/

great. Is not the preamp output enough to feed it in the DSP and then to an amplifier ?

 

[fpitas]

Typically, yes, in the bass frequencies.

Also, loudness compensation.

But you can certainly 'survive' without them.

I never have entirely liked loudness compensation. Maybe I haven't heard a good realization.

 

[krabapple]

Playback level affects perceived EQ balance*
And that's true whether you like it or not.


*... unless you think equal loudness curves are fake data...

 

[fpitas]

It doesn't matter if you 'like it'. Playback level affects perceived EQ balance... unless you think equal loudness curves are fake data.

Except my brain seems happy enough to just accept the different tonal balance.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Greeting everyone.
As I am low on budget this is my question.

I am thinking ying an integrated amp that has two pre-out (left and right).
I am trying to understand if in the future (when I would be able to spend bit more) I cantake the two pre outs and add them to some preprocessing unit to adjust for my room that I would then feed into my aplifier.

Hi,
You cannot do that using regular preouts.
Some integrated amplifiers have tape output / input allowing what you are describing.
Was quite common many years ago but quite rare these days.

 

[alaios]

Why is that? Can you help me understand the "physics"`? ;My understanding is that pre out offer the low power signal that is easy to adjust and feed it to a digital processing unit before adding an amplifier

 

[voodooless]

Why is that? Can you help me understand the "physics"`? ;My understanding is that pre out offer the low power signal that is easy to adjust and feed it to a digital processing unit before adding an amplifier

The “out” bit is not the problem. It is the “in” bit that is missing. The signal needs to get back into the integrated amp to be amplified.

 

[kemmler3D]

great. Is not the preamp output enough to feed it in the DSP and then to an amplifier ?

That should work yes. Keep in mind you will need some way to do the measurements, usually UMIK-1 and REW, but there are other methods. Some of the AVR-integrated room correction tools come with their own mics and whatnot.

 

[Rednaxela]

Is this the same question?

 

[tmtomh]

IMO the difference you hear in bass up to 150-200hz or so is really night-and-day. Uncorrected, bass notes tend to boom and disappear as they go up and down the scale... we tend to accept this because it's common, but once you stop having to listen to music that way, it's really nice.

I have to agree with this. I say "have to" because like you, @alaios , I guess I think things would be simpler if DSP for room correction weren't necessary.

For many years I lived without proper DSP, and I did so happily. But now that I have a better system that includes DSP, I am experiencing what kemmler3D is talking about: so much of my music now has more bass heft because the response is now there, and conversely there are so many bass-heavy moments and notes that I expect to become resonant or overpowering from years of habitual listening, but those moments and notes don't become resonant or overpowering because the room modes have now been lessened.

I've also noted that room correction has improved the focus and precision of the soundstage, particularly strengthening and giving more of an illusion of realism to the phantom center - though that could be because my current speakers are coaxial/point source and my prior ones weren't. But when I used different DSP with non-coaxial speakers I heard (or at least I thought I heard) a similar sharpening of the phantom center. My guess is that came from the impulse correction feature of the DSP (which would make it akin to a coaxial), but that's just a guess.

YMMV of course.

 

[droid2000]

If you post the measurements then we can definitively give you answer.

 

[kemmler3D]

I have to agree with this. I say "have to" because like you, @alaios , I guess I think things would be simpler if DSP for room correction weren't necessary.

For many years I lived without proper DSP, and I did so happily. But now that I have a better system that includes DSP, I am experiencing what kemmler3D is talking about: so much of my music now has more bass heft because the response is now there, and conversely there are so many bass-heavy moments and notes that I expect to become resonant or overpowering from years of habitual listening, but those moments and notes don't become resonant or overpowering because the room modes have now been lessened.

I've also noted that room correction has improved the focus and precision of the soundstage, particularly strengthening and giving more of an illusion of realism to the phantom center - though that could be because my current speakers are coaxial/point source and my prior ones weren't. But when I used different DSP with non-coaxial speakers I heard (or at least I thought I heard) a similar sharpening of the phantom center. My guess is that came from the impulse correction feature of the DSP (which would make it akin to a coaxial), but that's just a guess.

YMMV of course.

+1. I may have underemphasized how nice it is. Consider that 20hz - 200hz (where most of the room correction action is) is more than 3 octaves, and the entire audible range is 10 at best. Having the bass sound smooth and under control, rather than booming out at certain times, is the biggest improvement you can get without swapping out the speakers or the room.

It's basically what you hope for (but never really achieve without DSP) when buying subs.

Nobody "needs" room correction because nobody "needs" nice speakers in the first place. But if you are interested in sound quality and you can set it up without too much trouble, I would say EQ is essential.

 

[AdamG]

Is this the same question?

Yes and they have been merged into one thread. This one. Thank you for your assistance in helping keep our forum organized and neat and tidy!

 

[wwenze]

You don't "need" room correction in the same way you don't "need" 20Hz bass or a 40" TV or two pillows or a water filter. There is even a school of thought that if the instruments and singers are performing live in the room they also wouldn't be using room correction and the room FR is part of the thing.

However the feeling when you play this test sound and all the notes come back at equal loudness makes me feels better than spending $3000 on cables