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Do I "need" room correction

fpitas

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I'll make the obvious comment that up until fairly recently most people just put up with room modes. Maybe they pushed the speakers around a bit to improve matters.
 

kemmler3D

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I'll make the obvious comment that up until fairly recently most people just put up with room modes. Maybe they pushed the speakers around a bit to improve matters.
Well, how recent is "fairly recent"? It's been some decades since doing room treatments or using EQ of some kind became common, or at least not unheard-of.
Audyssey has been available for nearly 20 years now... the really recent development is REW maturing enough and becoming mainstream enough that "UMIK + REW" has become a standard recommendation. But fixing room modes has been a thing in the audiophile world for a reasonably large fraction of the history of audiophile stuff. ;)
 

wwenze

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Well, how recent is "fairly recent"? It's been some decades since doing room treatments or using EQ of some kind became common, or at least not unheard-of.
Audyssey has been available for nearly 20 years now... the really recent development is REW maturing enough and becoming mainstream enough that "UMIK + REW" has become a standard recommendation. But fixing room modes has been a thing in the audiophile world for a reasonably large fraction of the history of audiophile stuff. ;)
Until the day web traffic on this website is higher than headfi or whathifi, I would have to call that a bluff, at least where the definition of "large fraction" is concerned.
 

voodooless

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Until the day web traffic on this website is higher than headfi or whathifi, I would have to call that a bluff, at least where the definition of "large fraction" is concerned.
ASR already has more traffic than head-fi… it still has a while to go to match WhatHifi, but you said “or”.
 

kemmler3D

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Until the day web traffic on this website is higher than headfi or whathifi, I would have to call that a bluff, at least where the definition of "large fraction" is concerned.
I'm not saying everyone does it, knows about it, or even acknowledges it... but in terms of the history of hi-fi, room correction has been around for a while. Hi-Fi has only been a mainstream concept for maybe 70-80 years, we've had automated room correction at the consumer level for 20 of those years. I consider that a large fraction. :)

And if ~25% isn't high enough, hardware PEQs were available in the 70s for the truly hardcore. Meaning this style of room correction has been technically accessible for 50 years now.
 

ads_cft222

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In my case room correction is necessary unless I had Dutch & Dutch 8c.

Bass shapes the music and it is important to correct room modes that affect it.

Try to listen classical music or jazz with attention. You will see that you will gain clarity and the music will be less congested with eq.

Light blue is the corrected curve and it made a big difference to me.
 

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Willem

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I have always had Quad electrostats in my main system. Those are dipole speakers and hence do not excite room modes quite so much. About ten years ago I decided that it was worth adding a subwoofer, given that with digital sources we finally have good deep bass content and I was now playing in a much larger room. The result was disappointing. I could only make the sub sound decent by turning down its volume to a level where it really did not do much anymore. Reading on the work by Earl Geddes and Floyd Toole convinced me that room modes were my problem, and I added an ANtimode 8033 dsp room eq unit, which transformed the sound. Now the sub was as tight and unpertubed by room modes as are my main speakers. I had discovered why people say that integrating a subwoofer with a pair of Quad electrostats was so difficult. The Quads are so clean that the room modes generated by a sub become obvious. But no more. Since then, I have added two more subs and am now using Multi Sub Optimizer to tame the subs, but the idea has remained the same.
 
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alaios

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The “out” bit is not the problem. It is the “in” bit that is missing. The signal needs to get back into the integrated amp to be amplified.
but I can buy a dedicated amplifier in the future. So now I use it as an integrated. In the future I take the pre out feed it in the dsp and then to a dedicated amp. What do I miss ?
 

voodooless

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but I can buy a dedicated amplifier in the future. So now I use it as an integrated. In the future I take the pre out feed it in the dsp and then to a dedicated amp. What do I miss ?
Yes, you could. Seems like a bit of a waste though. Do you really need a pre? If you only have one source, just get a power amp right away.
 
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alaios

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Do you have the measurements of before and after? If so, share them!

In general, you may just not like the target curve chosen. There are endless ways to tweak the response, and it will need some tweaking to tailor it to your liking.
I have updated the first post
 
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alaios

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That should work yes. Keep in mind you will need some way to do the measurements, usually UMIK-1 and REW, but there are other methods. Some of the AVR-integrated room correction tools come with their own mics and whatnot.
I have updated first post with some initial measurements.
 
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alaios

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Yes, you could. Seems like a bit of a waste though. Do you really need a pre? If you only have one source, just get a power amp right away.
My sources are cd, fm tuner, streaming and vinyl
 

krabapple

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The Quads are so clean that the room modes generated by a sub become obvious. But no more. Since then, I have added two more subs and am now using Multi Sub Optimizer to tame the subs, but the idea has remained the same.


? I don't see how the Quads being 'clean' (whatever that means) affects their interplay with room modes. If they really don't output much below the room's transition frequency , then sure, they aren't going to much exacerbate room mode issues. But if they do, they will interact with problematic modes, regardless of how 'clean' they are.
 

voodooless

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I have updated the first post
Great!

Looks like that should have been a substantial improvement overall. But it also leaves a bit of room for improvement. It basically just added some bass, without really addressing the major peaks.

My sources are cd, fm tuner, streaming and vinyl
Well, you definitely need a pre. I’d just get something that has room correction baked in. The cheaper limited Dirac license may already be enough, your mid and high frequency seems quite smooth already. Something like NAD C386 or C3050 may work?
 
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alaios

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You don't "need" room correction in the same way you don't "need" 20Hz bass or a 40" TV or two pillows or a water filter. There is even a school of thought that if the instruments and singers are performing live in the room they also wouldn't be using room correction and the room FR is part of the thing.

However the feeling when you play this test sound and all the notes come back at equal loudness makes me feels better than spending $3000 on cables

Thanks. I will use that to test it
 
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alaios

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Yes. Absolutely. But only if you've experienced it. If you haven't you don't know what you're missing..
as I wrote I have experienced it and the difference was not huge
 

fpitas

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Well, how recent is "fairly recent"? It's been some decades since doing room treatments or using EQ of some kind became common, or at least not unheard-of.
Audyssey has been available for nearly 20 years now... the really recent development is REW maturing enough and becoming mainstream enough that "UMIK + REW" has become a standard recommendation. But fixing room modes has been a thing in the audiophile world for a reasonably large fraction of the history of audiophile stuff. ;)
I stand by my vague, sweeping assertion ;) In any event EQ used to be a whole lot tougher not so many years ago.
 

krabapple

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You don't "need" room correction in the same way you don't "need" 20Hz bass or a 40" TV or two pillows or a water filter. There is even a school of thought that if the instruments and singers are performing live in the room they also wouldn't be using room correction and the room FR is part of the thing.

Has it occurred to that school that maybe it would sound better with 'room correction'?
 
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