Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

[DualTriode]

From Thiele:
View attachment 118571
Note the emphasis on the word "unimportant". Once aligned and fitted, the combo of the box and the mass of the driver swamp the latter's compliance. Link

In terms of data? Like most posting here, I don't have anything that would qualify as "direct", in the manner of FR or other speaker parameters over time. I don't think it would be possible to achieve pair deviations this low in actives, even cheap ones from all sorts of companies, if drivers were somehow unreliable.

Come to that, DT—you've been trying your hand at measuring headphones and have an AP if I'm not mistaken. Miles beyond my measurement gear. Why not then do a "100 hour" test like the boutique manufacturers recommend? Except this time measure the output over the entire period.

You know @pozz , I am in agreement with most of what you are saying. Just for fun I am just picking on the little bones.

You are speaking of “drift” I am not exactly sure of what that is.

From the Link that you provided you indicated that even if the TS/P changed due to stiffening of the speaker compliance in the cold, the f3 response of that speaker in a fixed enclosure would remain largely unchanged. We are speaking of frequency response level at resonance of the enclosure. The resonance change of the cold driver is not so important.

This is looking at f3 resonance through a keyhole. Sure the f3 does not change so much. However the drift popes it fuzzy little head up in the shape of the frequency response curve proximate to the little changed f3 point. The Q of the driver does shift with temperature. The Q of the enclosure does not shift so much with temperature. The Total Q of the driver plus the enclosure Q also changes. As a result the Frequency response curve if it was designed to be maximally flat at warmed up temperatures will drift. At cold temperatures the frequency response curve will not be nearly so maximally flat, it will have new slopes, lumps and bumps even if f3 remains reasonably constant.

See the Thiele document page 186 for a discussion of Q, Total Q near (42) (43).

The in-enclosure impedance curve is likely the easiest speaker measurement to show drift due to delta t.

Sure, you can measure it. Can you hear it? Likely not. Who Cares? It is like getting in the shower on a cold morning, you don’t get in till it warms up. My shower is hot wax sensor thermostatically controlled, no electronics.

Thanks DT

For fun http://theplumbinginfo.com/shower-valve-evolved/

 

[SOUNDSONIC]

A love one of mine gave me a pair of Polk Audio T15 as Christmas gift. I hooked it up into a 2.0 amp and played various music. The highs were good but the lows and mids were almost none to be heard. I said to myself, "Hmmn, maybe there are fake Polks". Since the highs are pretty ok to me, I decided to connect the Polk to my 2.1 amp. Well, I was hearing the bass already thanks to the subwoofer.

Weeks of 'on and off' playing various genres of music, I noticed some bass coming out from the T15. I immediately reduced the volume of the subwoofer. And alas, the sound of the T15 was not the same as when I first listened to it. The sound was fuller. Thr bass became more prominent, more solid and punchy. The mids bacame more vibrant and vivid. Awesome.

Today, the subwoofer is no longer doing its duty to add color to the music. The Polk Audio T15 speakers are now standing alone. There are no fake Polks after all.

Then I involuntary whispered to myself, "Speaker break-in is REAL, dude."

 

[Sal1950]

Then I involuntary whispered to myself, "Speaker break-in is REAL, dude

Very likely you just became more accustomed to new speakers with a different balance than you had before.
Break-in if any would only make a very minimal change in bottom end response, or maybe you changed positioning in the room.
Audioholics make some good measurements of these Polk's, a good subwoofer would be very beneficial.
https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/polk-t15/conclusion

 

[luft262]

I honestly just think they want you to sort of get used to them. I've noticed that with a lot of speakers and headphones, even if you feel like they sound a little off, or even if they just don't blow your socks off out the gate, over time you'll get used to them. I only really love new speakers or headphones instantly when their is a huge step up between them and what I've been listening to. Otherwise, I feel like I need to "de-acclimatize" my ears from what I've been listening to a little bit to fully get into the new ones.

 

[milosz]

Then I involuntary whispered to myself, "Speaker break-in is REAL, dude."

REAL things can be measured. Have you any measurements? Measurements can be shared with others, and we can all see that the measurements show something real. Something you hear is experienced only by you, we can't share what you hear in order to verify that the effect is an actual physical reality.

 

[hardisj]

Answer to thread title:
Yes

Next level answer: it depends

 

[milosz]

Here is a simple impedance measurement of a subwoofer driver showing a change after being driven for some period of time - a break in period. The magnitude of the change is small and I don't know if it would be audible. The Fs appears to go from about 28 Hz to 25 Hz after the break in, and a small bump in impedance just above resonance disappears=> audiojudgement.com/subwoofer-break-in/

 

[Dialectic]

If break-in could be tested with a new pair of speakers or, even better, headphones running sweeps for hours or days in front of a measurement rig that records continuously, I would be amused to see the results. I have only once been convinced that break-in changed the sound of a device, some Hifiman headphones that sounded lacking in low end when I got them. Could've been my ears, but I don't think it was.

our longest relationships dont involve a crusty sock

Speak for yourself.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Answer to thread title:
Yes

Next level answer: it depends

Yah, I have experienced some effects that I am more willing to attribute to break in vs adjustment.
This is with having owned many speakers and designed a few and done some hobbyist work with a reasonable amount of raw drivers. Often I am not listening while the drivers/speakers break in, therefore not much adjustment. (of course could be expectation/confirmation bias.)
I have most definitely experienced adjustment related effects as well. No doubt about that all.

I my experience the break in effects were not strong, AND they often were meaningful - I mean we are into this hobby deep right? So small effects can have some real value. I believe I have experienced break in effects in the entire band and while bass is generally a less contentious spot to "believe" in break in - I feel the midrange and treble "break in" effects that I so far attribute to actual break in have been more meaningful. Especially in the highs.

I can't really say how much time this took. I feel comfortable saying the changes that took place were fairly early on, maybe a few hours of loud playback or a little more time. (best guess for a worst case is still less than 20 hours of not low volume playback)

Who knows, many folks with far more experiences than me believe in break in and as many do not believe in it. I say believe as IMHO there is no information available yet to draw a "fact" from or make a consensus/general agreement from. Again maybe some very advanced research lab can hone in on this but will they?

 

[SOUNDSONIC]

I am not trying to convince anyone that speaker break-in is REAL. I am just sharing my experience on the Polk Audio T15. I didnt alter any speaker positioning. Same room, same cabinet, same music, same ears.

Some people just dont believe in something that a person have actually experienced. And I respect that. I am a 64 years old male and have been an audio enthusiast since my teen days. I dont need intruments to identify black from white, day from night.

I bought a Mordaunt Short sorround speakers a few months ago. The interior packaging had a note stating that the speakers may not work efficiently on its first few hours of use and that it needs a certain number of hours of continuous usage that would eventually settle down to its intended performance. And it did. Another case of speaker break-in. And that reinforced of what had happened to the T15.

 

[krabapple]

Then I involuntary whispered to myself, "Speaker break-in is REAL, dude."

Really, you 'involuntarily whispered' that to yourself?

The Polks were real; cognitive bias is real ; speaker break-in is an illusion.

 

[krabapple]

Answer to thread title:
Yes

Next level answer: it depends

True answer: No

 

[krabapple]

I am not trying to convince anyone that speaker break-in is REAL. I am just sharing my experience on the Polk Audio T15. I didnt alter any speaker positioning. Same room, same cabinet, same music, same ears.

Some people just dont believe in something that a person have actually experienced.

Some people believe you actually experienced something. They believe you sincerely think it was break-in. They believe you are wrong about that.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Some people believe you actually experienced something. They believe you sincerely think it was break-in. They believe you are wrong about that.

Same goes for not "believing" in speaker break in.
It is quite possible that since you don't beleive in it you don't hear any changes.
This could be due to your expectations and thus confirmation bias.
There is no definitive or near definitive study that I am aware of. No "yes" and no "no". If you have the data/info serve it up.

True answer: No

 

[amirm]

There is no definitive or near definitive study that I am aware of.

There is actually. From Dr. Toole's book:

"Careful listening tests revealed no audible differences."

Let's not forget the measurements I did in the OP. It showed no differences.

 

[SOUNDSONIC]

The true answer is: We must learn to respect one's opinion and belief. You respect mine, I respect yours.

 

[krabapple]

Same goes for not "believing" in speaker break in.
It is quite possible that since you don't beleive in it you don't hear any changes.
This could be due to your expectations and thus confirmation bias.
There is no definitive or near definitive study that I am aware of. No "yes" and no "no". If you have the data/info serve it up.

Oh, it's worse than that...I have not even bothered to listen for 'speaker break in'.

Nor have I kept an eye out for unicorns.

Now, what principle might be behind that?

Please plausibly explain how speaker break-in *could* occur that would account for the extravagant , always positive, effects claimed for it -- e.g., bass where there was 'none' to start with -- with reference to the physics of loudspeakers and the properties of human hearing.

 

[Sal1950]

The true answer is: We must learn to respect one's opinion and belief. You respect mine, I respect yours.

Opinions are ok,
Measurement and facts give the true answers.

 

[Doodski]

The true answer is: We must learn to respect one's opinion and belief. You respect mine, I respect yours.

This website is science based and not reliant on opinions, snake oil and half truth logic.

 

[krabapple]

The true answer is: We must learn to respect one's opinion and belief. You respect mine, I respect yours.

Opinion and beliefs can be moored in experience. Experience is not necessarily an indicator of truth -- though it is quite often so misinterpreted, as:
"I experienced A, which means B is true."

This is where the scientific method comes in handy.