Dirac Live standalone for PC and Mac

[mosco]

kolestonin your questions are all pertinent to many of us. I think that Dirac is one of the worst advertised and sold products in the world in all areas. the information on its website is confusing and it seems that it wants to deceive you with the licenses. I don't know if the product is good but I'm not going to invest until that changes. Regards

 

[phoenixdogfan]

kolestonin your questions are all pertinent to many of us. I think that Dirac is one of the worst advertised and sold products in the world in all areas. the information on its website is confusing and it seems that it wants to deceive you with the licenses. I don't know if the product is good but I'm not going to invest until that changes. Regards

The product is very, very good, but I agree that the way it's advertised, and, in particular, the way the company deals with revisions and the like is maddening. When you go to the website, there is a very long missionary sales spiel. If, like me, you are a long time user you want to know where to go to get the support (revised version, help with problem, news about new product and which platform its available on, pricing, anticipated release date for new modules by platform, etc). And you want to know that stuff as well as where to find the manuals, instructional videos, how to get to a CSR, etc. And frankly they need to improve that. A lot.

On the other hand, the software is easier to use than anything in its class (Audiolense, Accourate), works natively for both Windows and Mac, and has a truly superior correction with the base model. and it is only going to get better (and I mean waayyyy better with DLBC and ART).

After you go through the measurements once, you'll find it's a breeze to use. Very intuitive and very powerful. And it makes systems sound much better. On balance, I really believe it's worth it.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have a bit of confusion and will need your help to fully understand program compatibility and usage.
I do not want to add a piece of hardware in my chain, so I will need the Studio(more expensive) version of the program.
Is this correct?
I would also like to do everything within my windows 10 listening pc(source).
Install the program to this pc, connect the microphone to this pc, take the measurements and apply the optimizations to this pc. Without using a laptop, phone, tablet, whatever.
Is this possible?
Do I also have the option to take the measurements from a laptop and then apply the optimizations to my main listening pc? If yes, will I need to install the program to both computers(laptop+main pc)? Is this possible with only one license?

Sorry for the extreme basic/noob questions but most tutorials take them as granted and the basic usage scenario, compatibility, advantages or limitations of the software version are not clear to me.

If you want to run the program on a PC because the PC will always be part of you AV reporduction chain, then the Studio version is for you. If, OTOH, you want to use an AV receiver, then you need to pick a receiver which runs Dirac, preferably the version you want (I would pick one that has DLBC).

You can indeed use the same Pc you will listen with. That's what I do. You can take measurements by connecting the USB Umik 1 Mic (around $115), and running the desktop windows version of Dirac Studio which comes in stereo or multichannel, and will soon have DLBC. If you have a multi user license (which comes std with multichannel), you can do the measurement on one PC, give it a name, save it to the Dirac Project directory, and transfer it to the main listening PC. Then you just run the Desktop Measurement app on the main listening pc, call up the project you transferred and then post it to the Dirac processing module into one of the available slots. The processing module can be run as a standalone in which case it will need to become the default output on the Windows sound card, or it can run as VST plugin on a player like JRiver.

If you want to use separate computers you will indeed need to install at least the measurement module on both PCs and the Processor (standalone or Plugin) on the PC you listen with. The processor and the measuring module are separate downloads from Dirac, btw.

 

[kolestonin]

I can't thank you enough @phoenixdogfan

That cleared a lot the things for me. Especially the last sentence.

I think I would also need to clarify further the below:

The processing module can be run as a standalone in which case it will need to become the default output on the Windows sound card, or it can run as VST plugin on a player like JRiver.

This means that my dac will be bypassed and the processing module will become my main audio device for windows?
Is this braking the chain or not?
What will happen if my pre-amp 'looses' the dac to which is now connected?

By running it as a plugin I understand that I will be restricted to use Jriver as a player.
I currently use Foobar in asio mode.
Will this not be an option if I want to benefit from Dirac live optimizations?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

This means that my dac will be bypassed and the processing module will become my main audio device for windows?
Is this braking the chain or not?
What will happen if my pre-amp 'looses' the dac to which is now connected?

Running it this way (as a stand-alone), it will be seen as the output device of your audio processor/streamer but your DAC will be seen as the output device of the DL stand-alone.

By running it as a plugin I understand that I will be restricted to use Jriver as a player.
I currently use Foobar in asio mode.
Will this not be an option if I want to benefit from Dirac live optimizations?

Possibly but I am not much familiar with foobar. To run DL as a plug-in, you need to use Jriver or any other audio processor that supports VST plug-ins. FWIW, in my experience, operation as a plug-in was more trouble-free than using DL as stand-alone.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Running it this way (as a stand-alone), it will be seen as the output device of your audio processor/streamer but your DAC will be seen as the output device of the DL stand-alone.

Possibly but I am not much familiar with foobar. To run DL as a plug-in, you need to use Jriver or any other audio processor that supports VST plug-ins. FWIW, in my experience, operation as a plug-in was more trouble-free than using DL as stand-alone.

Foobar can be used as a standin for JRiver. It does many of the same things, but it's not nearly as easy to use. My advice would be to buy JRiver. Just about the best $60 I spent in my nearly 50 years in audio. But since Foobar will accept VST plugins, you can run Dirac on it as well. And, of course, its' free. I use a multi channel ASIO driver to send LPCM from JRiver to my Octo Reseach DAC 8.

Using the stand alone will restrict you to 7.1 channels at most. The plugin will handle more channels. If you use other processing (PEQ, Bass management, high/low pass crossovers) it will be best to place Dirac at the top of the processing block, so it performs its action before PEQ, crossovers etc. Just drag it so it sits at the top. That's the way miniDSP imprement Dirac on its hardware, btw.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Using the stand alone will restrict you to 7.1 channels at most. The plugin will handle more channels. If you use other processing (PEQ, Bass management, high/low pass crossovers) it will be best to place Dirac at the top of the processing block, so it performs its action before PEQ, crossovers etc. Just drag it so it sits at the top. That's the way miniDSP imprement Dirac on its hardware, btw.

I have long disputed that this is the proper way. Let me give you one simple example. If you run DL before bass management, it will apply correction for the LF produced by each main speaker relevant to its position in the room despite the subsequent BM rerouting the LF to sub(s) situated in different positions in the room. This is patently incorrect.

DL (and similar DSP room corrections) should be performed after all signals are distributed to their ultimate sources in the room.

 

[Joaquinín]

I have long disputed that this is the proper way. Let me give you one simple example. If you run DL before bass management, it will apply correction for the LF produced by each main speaker relevant to its position in the room despite the subsequent BM rerouting the LF to sub(s) situated in different positions in the room. This is patently incorrect.

DL (and similar DSP room corrections) should be performed after all signals are distributed to their ultimate sources in the room.

If we place the BM (in my case, JRiver "Room correction") rerouting after DL in JRiver, then DL will "hear" just one full range Right channel and one full range Left channel when taking his measurements. I understand DL will correct any level and phase incoherence between the main speaker and the sub that compose each channel, just as it does between the different drivers that a main speaker alone may have (2, 3 or more). I have a 2.0 system like that (JRiver with DL VST> Topping DM7 > 2 stereo speakers and 1 SW) and it works fine.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If we place the BM (in my case, JRiver "Room correction") rerouting after DL in JRiver, then DL will "hear" just one full range Right channel and one full range Left channel when taking his measurements.

It will correct the main speaker+sub in each L/R channel and cannot correct properly for the different positions of the main and sub.

I understand DL will correct any level and phase incoherence between the main speaker and the sub that compose each channel, just as it does between the different drivers that a main speaker alone may have (2, 3 or more).

The differences in level/phase/distance for main+sub are huge compared to those for the various drivers in a multiway main speaker. There is no reason to do this in such a sub-optimal way unless one is forced to by external circumstances.

I have a 2.0 system like that (JRiver with DL VST> Topping DM7 > 2 stereo speakers and 1 SW) and it works fine.

Sure, it works but I would never use or recommend doing it. Have you tried it the other way and measured the results?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have long disputed that this is the proper way. Let me give you one simple example. If you run DL before bass management, it will apply correction for the LF produced by each main speaker relevant to its position in the room despite the subsequent BM rerouting the LF to sub(s) situated in different positions in the room. This is patently incorrect.

DL (and similar DSP room corrections) should be performed after all signals are distributed to their ultimate sources in the room.

I've done it both ways. My concern is that when taking the measurement the measurement signal goes directly to the processor rather than through the WDM driver and down through the bass management and eq if they are placed ahead of it in the stack. If that's the case, then the PEW and Bass Management will be correcting an already corrected Dirac signal. Do you know whether that' the case or not? MiniDSP places the Dirac correction at the top of the stack. Are they wrong for doing so?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I've done it both ways. My concern is that when taking the measurement the measurement signal goes directly to the processor rather than through the WDM driver and down through the bass management and eq if they are placed ahead of it in the stack.

I use DL on my PC server/streamer running Jriver. The measurement program accesses the individual speakers and subs directly and develops individual corrections for them. When those corrections are inserted into the plug-in, they are correctly applied to the individual speakers and subs directly only if the signal streams for all of them exist and not all exist prior to bass management.

I do not know what constraints there are or what processes are run in a miniDSP device.

 

[Joaquinín]

It will correct the main speaker+sub in each L/R channel and cannot correct properly for the different positions of the main and sub.


The differences in level/phase/distance for main+sub are huge compared to those for the various drivers in a multiway main speaker. There is no reason to do this in such a sub-optimal way unless one is forced to by external circumstances.

Sure, it works but I would never use or recommend doing it. Have you tried it the other way and measured the results?

I haven´t been able to do it otherwise (When I launch DL measurements, it doesn´t take control of JRiver´s output as it should, so I am forced to use Dirac´s WDM to take measurements and create filters using JRiver as Audio Device in Dirac Live Processor; that means later I must put the DL filters ahead inside JRiver´s DSP Studio). Bear in mind that my Sub is just between both my monitors, in the nearfield. The only real work assigned to JRiver "Room Correction" is crossover (at 90hz/24db). DL takes care of phase and level (distance is not really an issue in my configuration). I plan to use DLBC when it becomes available for the PC and then ditch JRiver "Room Correction", but in the meantime, what I have is already very good.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I haven´t been able to do it otherwise (When I launch DL measurements, it doesn´t take control of JRiver´s output as it should, so I am forced to use Dirac´s WDM to take measurements and create filters using JRiver as Audio Device in Dirac Live Processor; that means later I must put the DL filters ahead inside JRiver´s DSP Studio).

That is unfortunate but, in my experience, the measurement process does not involve Jriver at all, just the output device(s).

 

[peng]

I use DL on my PC server/streamer running Jriver. The measurement program accesses the individual speakers and subs directly and develops individual corrections for them. When those corrections are inserted into the plug-in, they are correctly applied to the individual speakers and subs directly only if the signal streams for all of them exist and not all exist prior to bass management.

I do not know what constraints there are or what processes are run in a miniDSP device.

Hello Kal, I assume aside from using JRiver/plug-in with DL, you have also run it just with Windows. If so, may be you can help me again. I signed up to Beta test DLBC page's instruction, using the PC standalone version, so far I managed to get the screen similar to Dirac's:

Dirac Live Processor Bass Control Beta - Dirac Live Support - Confluence

confluence.dirac.services

When I proceed to the next step, that is to "calibrate", something strange happened, after the sweeps, left, right worked as expected but subwoofer output 3 appeared to be exactly the same as left output 1. Subwoofer Output 4 appeared to response as expected. I double checked my windows configuration and didn't see anything unusual.
I created a ticket at the helpdesk but unless @Flak happens to be the oner handling the ticket, I am not sure if they could help me quickly enough. It usually took a day to several day for them to respond anyway so by the time they understood my question and suggest solution, it could take a long time. So I thought I would try my luck here, may be you, or Flak can help me solve this puzze.

I am trying the Beta on my HT setup for now as you know I don't have a multi-channel DAC yet. So I got my Mcbook pro connected via HDMI to an input on may AVM70 and configured that input for 2.2, left, right, sub1 and sub2, for now. And obviously I set Anthem Room Correction for that input to off.

 

[TimoJ]

Hello Kal, I assume aside from using JRiver/plug-in with DL, you have also run it just with Windows. If so, may be you can help me again. I signed up to Beta test DLBC page's instruction, using the PC standalone version, so far I managed to get the screen similar to Dirac's:

Dirac Live Processor Bass Control Beta - Dirac Live Support - Confluence

confluence.dirac.services

When I proceed to the next step, that is to "calibrate", something strange happened, after the sweeps, left, right worked as expected but subwoofer output 3 appeared to be exactly the same as left output 1. Subwoofer Output 4 appeared to response as expected. I double checked my windows configuration and didn't see anything unusual.
I created a ticket at the helpdesk but unless @Flak happens to be the oner handling the ticket, I am not sure if they could help me quickly enough. It usually took a day to several day for them to respond anyway so by the time they understood my question and suggest solution, it could take a long time. So I thought I would try my luck here, may be you, or Flak can help me solve this puzze.

I am trying the Beta on my HT setup for now as you know I don't have a multi-channel DAC yet. So I got my Mcbook pro connected via HDMI to an input on may AVM70 and configured that input for 2.2, left, right, sub1 and sub2, for now. And obviously I set Anthem Room Correction for that input to off.

Since you are using HDMI, output 3 goes to center channel output (unless your AVM70 has some extra feature that allows channel mapping changes). In my system I have connected my second sub to center output instead of AVP's sub2 output.

 

[peng]

Since you are using HDMI, output 3 goes to center channel output (unless your AVM70 has some extra feature that allows channel mapping changes). In my system I have connected my second sub to center output instead of AVP's sub2 output.

Thanks, I understand your point but in this case, the instructions seem specific enough, as shown below:

It says:

Select your channel configuration and add additional subwoofers if needed.

And select "Custom" here:

While specific, overall the instructions are not really that clear to me and I am struggling..

Also, if it was mapped over to the center channel, I would know by the frequency response trace after the 1st position's measurements, yet the Subwoofer 1's look identical to that of the left channel. Regardless, I think you are right, that it has something to do with how Dirac output got mapped, in the case, to the left channel for some reason.

As soon as this gets solved, I will proceed with the test and post the results, even compare the results with DL+bass control vs ARCG's and Audyssey's (from before).

 

[TimoJ]

Thanks, I understand your point but in this case, the instructions seem specific enough, as shown below:

It says:

Select your channel configuration and add additional subwoofers if needed.

And select "Custom" here:

While specific, overall the instructions are not really that clear to me and I am struggling..

Also, if it was mapped over to the center channel, I would know by the frequency response trace after the 1st position's measurements, yet the Subwoofer 1's look identical to that of the left channel. Regardless, I think you are right, that it has something to do with how Dirac output got mapped, in the case, to the left channel for some reason.

As soon as this gets solved, I will proceed with the test and post the results, even compare the results with DL+bass control vs ARCG's and Audyssey's (from before).

Did you turn off AVM70's bass management? Set all speakers to large.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I am trying the Beta on my HT setup for now as you know I don't have a multi-channel DAC yet. So I got my Mcbook pro connected via HDMI to an input on may AVM70 and configured that input for 2.2, left, right, sub1 and sub2, for now. And obviously I set Anthem Room Correction for that input to off.

Since you are using HDMI, output 3 goes to center channel output (unless your AVM70 has some extra feature that allows channel mapping changes).

Regardless, I think you are right, that it has something to do with how Dirac output got mapped, in the case, to the left channel for some reason.

Yes, I agree that it is likely that the remapping is confounding the signal paths. Just an idea: Since DL cannot see what your AVR is doing, is it possible to set the AVR input to 5.2 but keep DL at 2.2?

 

[peng]

Yes, I agree that it is likely that the remapping is confounding the signal paths. Just an idea: Since DL cannot see what your AVR is doing, is it possible to set the AVR input to 5.2 but keep DL at 2.2?

Will try that this afternoon, along with @TimoJ 's suggestion setting speakers to large (though that may be tough because I don't think Anthem has "large" as such).

 

[TimoJ]

Will try that this afternoon, along with @TimoJ 's suggestion setting speakers to large (though that may be tough because I don't think Anthem has "large" as such).

It has crossover for each channel, set it to OFF. Also set LFE low pass to highest possible value.