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Dirac Live Exclamation Mark issue

marcosq

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I'd guess that this happens because the clock that drives your output device (RME), is NOT the same as the clock that drives your input device (UMIK).

In such case, there is no relation between the in-versus-out timings, and thus nothing reliable can be said about the phase or time behavior of your measured signal.
(That is : if the software has no tricky workaround for that with timing cues inside the signal, like REW can do. I do not use Dirac, but would be surprised if it used such cues). Not sure about Dirac, but this is a very well-known limitation for speaker builders using gated measurements.

If the above is indeed the cause of your error, then you should be able to finish a full measurement by using a normal XLR microphone (ECM8000 is cheap), connected to your RME.
Both in- and outputs are then using the same RME device, and the same clock.

Also : It would then not be possible for Dirac, to fully solve that (apparent) bug. It can only be worked around in a nasty and not-too-reliable way, by hiding timing 'blips' inside the measurent sweep, and making a few assumptions that may or may not always be true. Or by simply ignoring time related stuff, which previous versions of Dirac <=v3.4.4 seem to do (at least, that's my assumption when I see the suggestion on net to install v3.4.4 as a 'fix' for this problem...which, users say, create the exact same measuments but now no error message is thrown.).

Again : not familiar with both dirac and this error message, so I can't be sure. But it seems very logical to me....

OH : I see you tried using your laptop's on-board mic as well, and that it worked correctly. My assumption is that you were using your laptop's on-board sound OUTput in that case as well. Not the RME out. Is that correct ?
 

marcosq

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Crap, as you (TS) wrote : this is even THE recommended Mic by Dirac :(. What I wrote may be true, but Dirac should then really work their @#% off for a solution that at least works as advertised,,,, Good luck ! (And an analog mic wouldn't help you out as well - I mistakenly assumed that your Digiface would have mic inputs. )
 
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ppataki

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guess that this happens because the clock that drives your output device (RME), is NOT the same as the clock that drives your input device (UMIK).
I understand this but then how come REW works fine? I can totally measure phase and delay information with it using the same setup... (on all my systems for that matter)

Or by simply ignoring time related stuff, which previous versions of Dirac <=v3.4.4 seem to do
I have been using Dirac for approx. 6-7 years now and previous versions all were capable of properly using the timing information (this is how it sets the delay values and fixes the phase curve)
What is really strange is that I have never had this issue in the past, only since version 3.5
What is even stranger is that if I try to use version 3.4 now it still sucks whereas in the past it used to work fine.....
My assumption is that you were using your laptop's on-board sound OUTput in that case as well. Not the RME out. Is that correct ?
I was using the laptop's built-in mic and a Fiio USB DAC
If I try to use the same DAC with the UMIK-1 it fails again

Crap, as you (TS) wrote : this is even THE recommended Mic by Dirac :(. What I wrote may be true, but Dirac should then really work their @#% off for a solution that at least works as advertised
Couldn't agree more!! I am really fed up with them.....

Just to continue the list of strange things: I just got a call from my friend who also has a new UMIK-1 mic; he tried Dirac on three different AVRs
Two of them worked fine, the third one did not.....I really can't wrap my head around what's happening....
 

marcosq

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Regarding your first question: it's a little more subtle than that. I could write a long explanation, but it wouldn't be helpful in solving your problem at all... :(.

In the end this is a problem inside the dirac software it appears, obviously that's not for you or me to solve...only dirac themselves can do so....Very odd that solutions take so long, it seems quite widespread and very reproducible for them...
 

vicenzo_del_paris

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@ppataki have you tried the latest beta 3.9.7 released 3 days ago?
It seems the imprecise measurement issue is mentioned again on the change log of this version (they may have made some change again since previous beta)
 
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ppataki

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@ppataki have you tried the latest beta 3.9.7 released 3 days ago?
It seems the imprecise measurement issue is mentioned again on the change log of this version (they may have made some change again since previous beta)
Yes, I mentioned that in the first post :)
They claimed to have fixed it in the previous beta too....now they claimed it for the latest beta again - obviously it has not been fixed
 

Ricwa

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Yes, I mentioned that in the first post :)
They claimed to have fixed it in the previous beta too....now they claimed it for the latest beta again - obviously it has not been fixed
If you can, perform a single measurement and save it to disk. Then shutdown/restart Dirac and this time don’t take any measurements but instead reload the saved measurement from disk. Then re-perform the measurement to override the previous measurement. The problem sounds like an uninitialized variable bug and (long shot chance but) this might be a workaround. If this works, the error message you’re getting is a red herring.
 

Erici

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I am not sure if there is a thread about this topic already, if so please let me know

I decided to create this thread to get to know who else is battling with the 'Exclamation mark/Imprecise measurement' issue in Dirac Live 3.x

Whenever I measure my system with Dirac (does not matter if the latest stable version or the latest beta version) I always see this in the measurement window:



I am using an UMIK-1 USB-C microphone and I have tried all these:
- changing to a mini-USB UMIK-1 mic
- changing the USB cable
- changing the Windows-based PC (to a Windows-based laptop and to a Mac Mini)

No matter what I try I always get this error message....even on my other system in my home office
The consequences are that Dirac will only apply FR correction, no phase correction and all the gain and delay settings will be zeroed out too
Essentially it renders Dirac quite useless

Maybe @Flak could chime in? He works for Dirac and has been helpful before.
 
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ppataki

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If you can, perform a single measurement and save it to disk. Then shutdown/restart Dirac and this time don’t take any measurements but instead reload the saved measurement from disk. Then re-perform the measurement to override the previous measurement. The problem sounds like an uninitialized variable bug and (long shot chance but) this might be a workaround. If this works, the error message you’re getting is a red herring.

Tried it, no success unfortunately
 
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ppataki

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So today I got a different UMIK-1 microphone from one of my friends
Same issue.....
I even tried it with different USB cables - no change

Potential good news is that both microphones probably work fine, it is the software that is malfunctioning

Next thing I will try is to do a LOT of measurements and see if any of them will be fine - the difficulty is that even when it says it is fine you need to listen to it to confirm - so this will take time
I will report back
 

GaryY

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Sorry if you have tried this "exclusive mode" already. I found this in dirac homepage explaining 3.9.1 version.

 

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Flak

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Hello, we are aware of this issue that some customers are finding and we are working on it, in the meantime please take into account that usually you can roll back to Dirac Live 3.4.4 without losing functionalities as the latest updates are intended to support Active Room Treatment... that's the reason why the current version is very finicky with measurements.
To rollback to 3.4.4 please manually uninstall the higher version before installing the lower version.
WINDOWS: Windows Settings → Apps → Dirac Live → Uninstall
MAC: Delete the app and its sub-folders by running /Applications/Dirac/maintenancetool
The downloads are here:
WINDOWS: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/win64/diraclive-v3.4.4-setup.exe
MAC: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/macos/diraclive-v3.4.4-setup.zip
Please take into account that it's possible to load a project created with a lower version into a higher one but the opposite isn't feasible.
 

slaweks

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Yes, of course
It does not help, unfortunately
Hi, I had the same problem, and was successful by using microphone attached to the receiver (M33), not to the laptop. It was the original microphone that came with M33. I am not sure if it would be possible to use UMIK1 this way - I have too short cable to try.
 
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ppataki

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There is no AVR, I am using the PC version of Dirac (=having Dirac Live Processor as a VST plugin)
 

audiofooled

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Sorry If I'm being daft, but here are some (to me) interesting measurements of how different length (and quality) of USB cables and devices can affect the signal:


I would hope this is a solved issue nowadays? No?
 
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ppataki

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I was also thinking about this so I have tried three different USB cables, also different lengths
None of them worked

I am sure that it is nothing else but a software issue at Dirac's end
I was suspicious on Windows at first but I have friends having the same issue on a Mac too so that is ruled out as well
 

slaweks

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I was also thinking about this so I have tried three different USB cables, also different lengths
None of them worked

I am sure that it is nothing else but a software issue at Dirac's end
I was suspicious on Windows at first but I have friends having the same issue on a Mac too so that is ruled out as well
I would like to note that the microphone supplied by NAD with M33 has two parts: a short USB part interfacing a device and then much longer thin, what appears to be an analogue, part joining the microphone.
 
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