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Dirac Live standalone for PC and Mac

FWIW, I got this from Dirac when asking whether DLBC was available as part of the standalone software for multichannel (I had not yet found this discussion on the topic when I sent the message). So it looks like maybe stereo and multichannel are close.
Hello,

you're correct, at the moment Dirac Live Bass Control is available for AVRs/Processors like Arcam, JBL, StormAudio, Monolith HTP1, Bryston, and Focal but not yet for our own Dirac Processor.

The good news is that it's going to be released soon as a Dirac Live option, I expect for the Stereo version also... hopefully within a month.

Thanks for your interest in Dirac Live Bass Control and best regards
 
Hello Kal, I assume aside from using JRiver/plug-in with DL, you have also run it just with Windows. If so, may be you can help me again.:) I signed up to Beta test DLBC page's instruction, using the PC standalone version, so far I managed to get the screen similar to Dirac's:


When I proceed to the next step, that is to "calibrate", something strange happened, after the sweeps, left, right worked as expected but subwoofer output 3 appeared to be exactly the same as left output 1. Subwoofer Output 4 appeared to response as expected. I double checked my windows configuration and didn't see anything unusual.
I created a ticket at the helpdesk but unless @Flak happens to be the oner handling the ticket, I am not sure if they could help me quickly enough. It usually took a day to several day for them to respond anyway so by the time they understood my question and suggest solution, it could take a long time. So I thought I would try my luck here, may be you, or Flak can help me solve this puzze.

I am trying the Beta on my HT setup for now as you know I don't have a multi-channel DAC yet. So I got my Mcbook pro connected via HDMI to an input on may AVM70 and configured that input for 2.2, left, right, sub1 and sub2, for now. And obviously I set Anthem Room Correction for that input to off.


image2022-11-7_9-5-37.png

Omit HDMI 4 as this will go through LFE processing, i.e. +10dB boost and potential 120Hz lowpass filter. All speakers need to be set to "large" in the AVR.
 
Omit HDMI 4 as this will go through LFE processing, i.e. +10dB boost and potential 120Hz lowpass filter. All speakers need to be set to "large" in the AVR.
Why HDMI 4, what's special about that one?
 
Why HDMI 4, what's special about that one?
Wasn't that already answered in the message you quoted? "will go through LFE processing, i.e. +10dB boost and potential 120Hz lowpass filter"

I use HDMI4 channel only because otherwise there are not enough channels for my 6.2 setup (with Dirac ART). I have set lowpass to max. (200Hz) and adjusted subwoofer's buildin amp's level to -10dB vs. my other sub which is using HDMI3 (center channel).
 
Wasn't that already answered in the message you quoted? "will go through LFE processing, i.e. +10dB boost and potential 120Hz lowpass filter"

I use HDMI4 channel only because otherwise there are not enough channels for my 6.2 setup (with Dirac ART). I have set lowpass to max. (200Hz) and adjusted subwoofer's buildin amp's level to -10dB vs. my other sub which is using HDMI3 (center channel).

Okay, I was confused by the term HDMI4 channel, thought you were talking about HDMI inputs, now I think you mean using HDMI input and the "4" refers to the channel number?

Anway, so far I have tried everything suggested, assuming I understood what was suggested. Nothing worked as intended, I just couldn't get proper mapping from Dirac to the AVP. I am going to give up on 2.2 and may try 3.1 one more time to see if that could be a possible work around. The thing that stands out is that Dirac's instruction says use "custom", not stereo, but my windows 10 laptop don't have any custom options, only stereo, 3.1, 5.1, Quad, and 7.1.

The instruction that flak linked me to is this one:


I am beginning to wonder may be the PC standalone version's DLBC is not designed to work with AV processors, and is for use with multi channel DAC, or HTPC based systems that has more flexible multichannel configurations? I tried using macOS too, same issues/results.
 
I think this is the right thread for PC standalone version users, so has anyone been using the DLBC beta for stereo with 2 subs or even 1 sub?
 
Okay, I was confused by the term HDMI4 channel, thought you were talking about HDMI inputs, now I think you mean using HDMI input and the "4" refers to the channel number?

Anway, so far I have tried everything suggested, assuming I understood what was suggested. Nothing worked as intended, I just couldn't get proper mapping from Dirac to the AVP. I am going to give up on 2.2 and may try 3.1 one more time to see if that could be a possible work around. The thing that stands out is that Dirac's instruction says use "custom", not stereo, but my windows 10 laptop don't have any custom options, only stereo, 3.1, 5.1, Quad, and 7.1.

The instruction that flak linked me to is this one:


I am beginning to wonder may be the PC standalone version's DLBC is not designed to work with AV processors, and is for use with multi channel DAC, or HTPC based systems that has more flexible multichannel configurations? I tried using macOS too, same issues/results.
Yes, "4" refers to one of the HDMI channels. You set Windows to 7.1 sound and enable all Dirac output channels. PC standalone works fine with AVP processors. Dirac just has left part of the instructions untold and their channel mapping logic/setup isn't very logical... You get channel outputs like the list below shows. So like I mentioned before, if you setup your system to hdmi channels 1-4, you must connect second sub to center output. And set all (used) channels to large. Also, you could, for example, leave Dirac output channels 3&4 disabled and use 5 and 6 for subs, then you have to connect subs to surround left/right outputs. However, if you do that, mapping still shows 1-4, not 1,2, 5 and 6...

HDMI channel 1: Front Left
HDMI channel 2: Front Right
HDMI channel 3: Center
HDMI channel 4: Subwoofer
HDMI channel 5: Surround Left
HDMI channel 6: Surround Right
HDMI channel 7: Surround Back Left
HDMI channel 8: Surround Back Right
 
Yes, "4" refers to one of the HDMI channels. You set Windows to 7.1 sound and enable all Dirac output channels. PC standalone works fine with AVP processors. Dirac just has left part of the instructions untold and their channel mapping logic/setup isn't very logical... You get channel outputs like the list below shows. So like I mentioned before, if you setup your system to hdmi channels 1-4, you must connect second sub to center output. And set all (used) channels to large. Also, you could, for example, leave Dirac output channels 3&4 disabled and use 5 and 6 for subs, then you have to connect subs to surround left/right outputs. However, if you do that, mapping still shows 1-4, not 1,2, 5 and 6...

HDMI channel 1: Front Left
HDMI channel 2: Front Right
HDMI channel 3: Center
HDMI channel 4: Subwoofer
HDMI channel 5: Surround Left
HDMI channel 6: Surround Right
HDMI channel 7: Surround Back Left
HDMI channel 8: Surround Back Right

Thank you very much for your patience. In that case I won't give up yet as there is still hope.
 
Thanks to TimoJ and Kal, I am finally making some progress. Got 3.1 working, but still cannot get the two subs working independently. Closest I got so far was to have one sub working on its own, while the other one got "mono" that is both firing as though they were fed via a Y splitter. Amazingly the results were still quite reasonable, without any manual tweaking and obviously the two subs were not even time aligned because they were mixed, a little better than ARCG with no manual tweaks anyway.

I think TimoJ's suggestion to connect the second sub to the center channel output will work. I'll tried that eventually but it's not my first choice because a) it's not convenient, and b) Dirac will not recognize it as a subwoofer, not that it matters, but just seem weird. May be there is a way to get it map over truly as 2.2 as shown in Dirac's instructions on the website.

1674682338010.jpeg


That's just the right channel with the two subs mixed as one (red). The blue is ARCG right channel with two subs working independently, time aligned and auto phased.
 
I think TimoJ's suggestion to connect the second sub to the center channel output will work. I'll tried that eventually but it's not my first choice because a) it's not convenient, and b) Dirac will not recognize it as a subwoofer, not that it matters, but just seem weird. May be there is a way to get it map over truly as 2.2 as shown in Dirac's instructions on the website.
Dirac does recognize it as a subwoofer when you have setup it as a sub in Dirac processor's custom channel settings.
 
I'm having the same trouble it seems. DLBC wants to send a full range signal to channel 3 and then complains during the measurement phase. I'm on a Mac and used Blackhole 16ch to use as the output device within DLBC, add 2 subs in "custom channel config" and set the output mapping as "custom" just like Dirac's instructions. I've tried alternate channel routing using a 4ch virtual audio device created in Loopback as output and even directing ch 3&4 to go to specific channels in my 8ch DAC. No matter what routing I use I run into the same problem during measurements where DLBC wants to follow a 7.1 audio scheme and send channels 3&4 to center and sub when it comes to the measurement stage. But prior to measurement sweeps sub channels are respected during level matching the two mains and 2 added sub channels and play tones correctly from the assigned channels.
 
Dirac does recognize it as a subwoofer when you have setup it as a sub in Dirac processor's custom channel settings.

I am sure you are right, but I am not going to bother rewiring my sub2 to channel 3, because I don't use the AVP to listen to music. I am using it now only to try DLBC because I don't have a multichannel DAC for my two channel systems.

Played with DLBC some more today, still just using 2.1 for reasons mentioned before so the results are not great because the two subs in the .1 configuration now are no longer time aligned. Still, based on my REW plots, I can tell DLBC works well. Time permitting, I will repeat the same tests but will have one of the subs turn off manually, to avoid cancellation effects.
 
Did another run, tighly focussed 7 positions this time, DLBC couldn't do a better job than Audyssey, but still better than AARCG on the deep bass at least. I think the suck out is so bad because now the two SVS subs are cancelling each other's big time, because there are no time/phase alignment between the two. With XT32, at least the two subs were time aligned.

So next time I am going to turn one subwoofer off manually, will have to find out which sub works better. Too bad between windows, the AVM70, and DLBC, it just seems impossible to map for 2.2. That's okay because this it only for beta testing, if it works well I will buy a multichannel DAC and it should then works fine with 2.1 or 2.2.

With DL on, it sounds better, to me anyway but the bass does sound a little thinner, and that must be because of the much tamed mid bass. I have not tried to limit the EQ range but as it is now I feel the sound more transparent, like comparing two different pairs of speakers.

Just main mic position, for now:

1677679046473.jpeg
1677679076025.jpeg


Below is for the same conditions, but with NBC:

1677679897275.jpeg
 
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Just to make things clear, you tried PC DLBC that only supports a single subwoofer? From your post it's a big difficult to understand exactly what you're testing.
 
Just to make things clear, you tried PC DLBC that only supports a single subwoofer? From your post it's a big difficult to understand exactly what you're testing.

Sorry, I thought I was clear about using a single subwoofer as part of my experiment in using DLBC. Let me try in point form to make things clearer, but with such a lengthy post, you may actually find it more difficult to understand.

- I am using the PC standalone DLBC beta version.
- Since I don't have any multichannel DAC and am using the PC standalone version, my only option is to use my existing AVP, the 15.1 AVM70.
- Output is via HDMI from my MacBookPro laptop, to the AVM70's HDMI input.
- AVM70 has 2 independent subwoofer outputs, both subwoofers are connected for normal use.
- Windows (will try using my Macbook Pro too but I doubt it would make a difference), cannot be configure to 2.2, or I just don't know how.
- Thanks to @TimoJ , who helped me configuring for 2.2 (see his post#207), by connecting the second subwoofer to the correct Anthem outputs. Since my AVM70 is not intended to use DLBC, I don't want to change the feed for one of the two subwoofers differently than the way it is normally used. Again, I am only doing this for testing, if it works well, I will have to buy more hardware, in order to use DLBC in one of my two channel stereo systems.

In the end, the only practical way for my setup to work, again for experimental purpose for 2 channel use only, is to

- Configure windows for "stereo" (that is, 2 channels).
- Configure DLBC, using the Dirac Processor's Custom Channel Configuration menu for "Stereo", and then add one subwoofer, tried two but that wouldn't work.

Once the above are done, when I run the calibration, DLBC works fine except I noticed the following:

1) DLBC, as expected (because it was configured with one sub), send the calibration chirps to both subwoofers so Sub1 and Sub2 are treated as a single sub (like using a Y).
2) If I configure it to have two subwoofers, one of the subwoofer would not be mapped correctly to the Sub2 channels of the AVM70 so that's no good to me.
3) If I had configured everything to 2.1, then DLBC would recognize it also as just one subwoofer channel so again, both Sub1 and Sub2 would get the same calibration chirps.

That means, unless there is another way that I am not aware of, my only option is to beta test DLBC using the configuration described above. That is, use the custom configuration as shown below:

That will allow me to test DLBC in basically 2.1 because Sub1 and Sub2 are actually working a one, the two independent subwoofer outputs are getting the same signal.
The results look not bad, and with bass control on, it is doing a better job than with bass control off, except the suck out in the range 40-70 Hz seems a little too much.

In my thinking, I think some bass cancelling between Sub1 and Sub2 may be the main reason for the excessive suck out in that range because DLBC, in this case can only time/phase align the left, right and the Sub1/Sub2 as one but it is not possible to time/phase align Sub1 and Sub2, obviously because there is just nothing for it to time and phase align them when they are getting the same signal.

That's why I said in my post (the one that is clear to you) then my next step was to try using either Sub1 or Sub2 (by turn one off at a time) but not both, thinking that with just one sub I may get smoothing response because then there would be no cancellation between the two subwoofers.

I tried it yesterday with Sub1, and the result did seem to look smoothing overall but very little difference. Using sub2 may be better, but I am not going to bother because a)I highly doubt it would make much difference based on trying it with Sub1 only, and b) After consulting @Flak , I may be able to do better by experimenting with the crossover for the left/right speakers.


1677761951154.png
 
I'm having the same problem on Mac with DLBC - cannot properly map 2nd sub to channel 4. Channel 4 gets treated as center channel no matter what configuration I try in Audio Midi Setup or in the calibration stage of DLBC and I have a 8ch DAC for proper routing, even tried it with separate DACs. I've submitted a trouble ticket, we'll see if/when it gets resolved.
 
I'm having the same problem on Mac with DLBC - cannot properly map 2nd sub to channel 4. Channel 4 gets treated as center channel no matter what configuration I try in Audio Midi Setup or in the calibration stage of DLBC and I have a 8ch DAC for proper routing, even tried it with separate DACs. I've submitted a trouble ticket, we'll see if/when it gets resolved.

Have you tried following the screenshots on their website, that is, configure for stereo in the Mac IOS, or windows, then use the DLBC's custom config for steres bit add two subs? I would think that if you are using a multichannel dac, this procedure should work.
 
Have you tried following the screenshots on their website
Indeed I have, to the letter, and many other variations. If I select "quadraphonic" or any other configuration in Audio Midi Setup it keeps reverting to using ch 4 as center as in a 7.1 setup once in the measurement stage. Others have gotten it to work somehow though.

That's why DLBC is still in beta testing, problems like this.
 
I think this is the right thread for PC standalone version users, so has anyone been using the DLBC beta for stereo with 2 subs or even 1 sub?
I use with two subs and the standalone. My DAC is the Octo Dac 8 Pro. Go to audio set up first. Set it up so the output is the DiyINHK Asio driveer, set driver to Asio, the check of channels 1-4 and uncheck channels 5-8. Then go to the Custom set up screen, set it to stereo and click and add two subwoofers. Then go to the main screen, set the set up to "custom' make sure program material is playing through to the processor by setting dirac as the default in Windows and setting the soundcard to 5.1, and setting advances settings to exclusive, exclusive control 48/24 studio quality. Then go back to standalone and hit calibrate. The meauring tool will show a stereo system with two subs. On the OCTO, I use channel 3 for the left sub and channel 4 for the right. I have succesfully completed measurements and have successful correction curves in DLBC using this method. Works just fine for the Octo on a Windows 11 system.
 
BTW, there's another thread that discusses DLBC here.
 
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