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Dirac Live Exclamation Mark issue

JW001

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In my small (10'x12') home office I have a stereo setup with DDRC-24, Yamaha A-S801, DBR62s and a single SVS SB1000. I was pretty happy with the sound quality of the setup. I subscribe to Qobuz but also have a collection of CDs, Bluray-Audios, DVDAs and SACDs, all ripped to files stored on a 2TB Samsung T7 SSD attached to a Raspberry Pi running Samba on my home network. I play the files from foobar2000.
IMG_0184_3.jpg


My DDRC-24's firmware and Dirac Live software were 3 years old, so I decided to upgrade. The latest version of Dirac Live for the miniDSP platform is 3.9.7. Configured Umik-1 with 90deg calibration file and followed the medium-wide listening area with 13 points. The "not precise measurement" warning did pop up half of the times. Once I moved the mic a bit and rerun the measurement one or two times, it always finally succeeded. Maybe it wasn't necessary to move the mic, perhaps the warning has to do with the measurement timing, so just retrying would do. This is why I decided to follow the 13-point arrangement, not the extra wide one with more measurement points.

After an hour of hard work I loaded my DDRC-24 with the new filter. What a difference it made! I have this very well recorded "Living Stereo" hybrid SACD with Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Fritz Reiner playing Johann Strauss waltzes. I was raising the volume until undistorted music filled the whole floor of my house. And the bass, so full and tight! My another test CD, Dire Strait's Communique, with a lot of great bass, sounded beautiful as well.

Hopefully, the Dirac people will fix the warning at some point. I am certainly glad that I decided to upgrade.
 
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ppataki

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Hello, we are aware of this issue that some customers are finding and we are working on it, in the meantime please take into account that usually you can roll back to Dirac Live 3.4.4 without losing functionalities as the latest updates are intended to support Active Room Treatment... that's the reason why the current version is very finicky with measurements.
To rollback to 3.4.4 please manually uninstall the higher version before installing the lower version.
WINDOWS: Windows Settings → Apps → Dirac Live → Uninstall
MAC: Delete the app and its sub-folders by running /Applications/Dirac/maintenancetool
The downloads are here:
WINDOWS: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/win64/diraclive-v3.4.4-setup.exe
MAC: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/macos/diraclive-v3.4.4-setup.zip
Please take into account that it's possible to load a project created with a lower version into a higher one but the opposite isn't feasible.

Hi @Flak
Thank you for confirming that you are aware of this issue and doing the utmost to fix it

Actually version 3.4.4 does not work properly either. It just seems to work fine since it won't throw the Exclamation mark/Imprecise measurement error message
I have informed Dirac Support Team about this several times already

Let me show you what happens:

I measure with version 3.4.4

3.4.4.png


It seems to be working fine

measure.png


At filter creation it shows you a nice simulated frequency response curve

filter creation.png


But when I check it with REW it turns out that Dirac actually did not correct the FR to flat and what's more it destroyed the phase curve too

Without Dirac
1709717659906.png


With Dirac
1709717684063.png


Just to be on the safe side I have tried version 3.4.4 on my other system too and the same happened: huge dips in the frequency response and a much worse phase curve vs the original

When listening to it I can clearly hear that the phantom center is not in the center anymore with Dirac (whereas without it it is definitely in the center) - this shows that the delay values were measured/fixed incorrectly (and probably the same root cause of the poor phase curve too)

This is certainly not the expected behavior and it clearly shows that this version does not work properly either

I hope that after more than 6 months now your team will be able to come up with a proper solution that actually works fine
 

C3KO

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I have the same measurement errors with the current versions and I'm back to 3.4.4

With 3.4.4 I have the same problems with phantom center on NAD M33. Deactivating delay/gain brings some improvement, but the phantom center is still not really there.

I've been hoping for a solution for months, Dirac currently cannot be used for me from Version 3.4.4 to 3.9.7
 

Rottmannash

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A few weeks ago I performed a new calibration attempting to use the latest (at the time) revision but couldn't get past the same issue. Reverted to 3.4.4 (which is what I originally used almost a year ago) which did yield a calibration file but when comparing it to the files from a yr ago it sounds awful. Don't know what happened but glad I saved those old files to reupload. Something seems to be off with even 3.4.4 now.
 

tapcsi6

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I have the same problem, since August 2023, on a Lexicon mc10 processor

I am using an UMIK-1 USB-C microphone and I have tried all these as you
- changing to a mini-USB UMIK-1 mic
- changing the USB cable
- changing the Windows-based PC (to a Windows-based laptop and to a Mac Mini)

Only the built-in microphone on my laptop worked, but as we know it is useless.

I also have a friend who has the same problem on a Rotel RAP-1580 mkii

It is disappointing that such a good program is almost useless for more than half a year
 

tonyreign

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Having the exact same problem here, running version 3.9.7 of Dirac Live Room Correction Suite (trial). I have tried pretty much everything I could think of, to no avail. Still getting the same imprecise measurement error on every measurement I try to take. Here's a few things I have tried:

1. Different sound drivers for output in Audio Settings of Dirac Live Processor (Windows Audio, Windows Audio (Low Latency), Windows Audio (Exclusive Mode), and a bunch of ASIO drivers), trying different Audio Buffer Size for each.
2. Updating the UMIK-2 mic driver for Windows (version 5.57.0 released on February 28th, 2023: https://www.minidsp.com/userdownloads/usb-microphone-series/umik-2)
3. Connecting the UMIK-2 mic to a USB port directly on the computer (not through a USB 3.0 hub)
4. Opted-in to use the microphones in Exclusive Mode in Windows, by following the steps provided directly by Dirac on their website: https://www.dirac.com/live/faq/helpdesk/software-changelog/ (see below the Features section of Dirac Live 3.9.7: "Click here for instructions how to activate exclusive mode."

Users experiencing recurring imprecise measurements on Windows PCs now have the possibility to opt-in for using the microphones in Exclusive Mode by adding a Windows Environment Variable:
  • Right-click on This PC in Windows Explorer and select “Properties”
  • Click the “Advanced system settings” link
  • Open the “Advanced” tab
  • Click the “Environment Variables…” button
  • Click the “New…” button under “User variables for <username>”
  • Enter the following:
  • Variable name: DAUDIO_WASAPI_NON_EXCLUSIVE
  • Variable value: OFF
  • Click “OK”
  • Restart the Dirac Live application
  • Verify that it is possible to complete a calibration.
Disable Exclusive Mode by either deleting the environment variable or by setting its value to “ON”

I am now out of solutions, and simply can't use the product. Was looking at purchasing the whole bundle (surround, bass add-on), but can't use it at all.

Kind of sad, waiting on an update from the company!
 

bungle

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I am cross-posting an answer that I found on MiniDSP forum (TL;DR; downgrade to 3.4.4, wait for update or try things below):
I contacted Dirac support and this is a response I received after four days:

Glenn Liljestrand commented:

Hello!

Sorry about the late reply, and to hear about the problems. We are aware of this, and the dev team is working hard to come up with a solution for everyone. I can really understand the frustration, let’s hope there will be a solution presented soon!Have you tried to run through the measurement process with Dirac Live version 3.4.4? For most people who are experiencing trouble with the newer versions, a fallback to 3.4.4 seems to help. Measurements should be validated more easily in this version. You can download it here: artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accor...ive-v3.4.4-setup.zip

I assume you have tried version 3.9.7 as well but it’s not working well for you?

Here is a list of general tips which has helped customers with this (or similar) problem.
  1. Make sure the microphone has been granted permission to be used by Dirac Live (this is the first and most important thing to check for Mac users).
  2. If applicable, use another USB port for the mic (some USB ports handle audio better than others).
  3. Try to go through the calibration/measurement process without loading the calibration file of the microphone.
  4. Make sure the computer is not running any other heavy tasks while using Dirac Live.
  5. Insert the laptop charger cable before doing the measurement process.
  6. Turn off "enhanced sound" (any kind of spatial experience enhancing etc) in Win/Mac sound/audio settings.
  7. Try to connect the microphone through a powered USB extension cable (not a USB hub).
  8. Retry a measurement point a few times.
  9. Change USB cables (if your UMIK is a model where the USB cable can be replaced, getting a 3.0 USB-C to USB-A cable has helped in some cases).
  10. Change mic and/or audio cables.
  11. Try another computer.
Hope anything of this will help! Let me know how it goes please.

Best regards,
Glenn
 
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ppataki

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I am cross-posting an answer that I found on MiniDSP forum (TL;DR; downgrade to 3.4.4, wait for update or try things below):
The problem is that 3.4.4 does not work either (it just seems to work fine)
See post #42 above
 
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ppataki

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Nothing is happening, or at least we are not informed about it.....
This was the latest update (in post #50), nothing else ever since
Allegedly a new beta shall be released 'soon' where the issue will be fixed
The same was promised for the current beta and for the one before that too so I am really curious....

Hi @Flak do you guys have any news?
It would be appreciated, thank you
 

mstanley117

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I thought I'd chime in to this discussion as I was also having this issue.

My setup which uses a MiniDSP SHD for Dirac Live is as follows:
I use optical (toslink) from my TV to the SHD for my primary audio playback.
For USB connection, the SHD is connected to a mini desktop with a Ryzen 5 5500U that I use HDMI into said TV.
The TV is a Samsung Q95 QLED 65" 2021 model.

The micro desktop runs Windows 10 LTSC 21H2.

From the micro desktop Ryzen 5 5500U I was using a USB extension cable along with the Umik-1's default USB cable. The extension cable is a cheap amazon purchase, specifically this cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FJ8Z4TJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Long story short, using Dirac Live from the mini desktop with 3.9.7 I was getting the imprecise measurement error no matter what settings I used, what power settings I used, mic placement, forcing exclusive mode, etc. Nothing was working.

Good news is that I found a fix that worked, at least for me, by using a separate device. I used my wife's laptop which also runs W10 LTSC 21H2 which I connected directly to the miniDSP SHD and did not use the extension cable with the microphone. I did, however, use the USB extension cable with the USB connection from the SHD to the laptop.

The laptop is a Lenovo Legion 5 Slim with a Ryzen with a Ryzen 5 7640HS and RTX 4060. When using this laptop, I had no more imprecise measurement issues. What was the issue? I'm thinking it's either the micro desktop or the extension cable. I did not try isolating either, as I had found a working solution.

If you have access to additional devices that you can use, give that a try. Even if you have a friend who will let you borrow their laptop or something just to test it out might help narrow things down.

I hope this helps as this is also an issue that I was running into for about a month now, and reading here (and other forums) unfortunately resulted in limited to no "real" solutions.
 
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ppataki

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I have tried different devices (also my friend did the same, even PC vs Mac)
No luck whatsoever....
There is still no solution to this and there has been radio silence from Dirac for months now.... which I find really odd to say the least
 

Willikom

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Is it possible that the problem only occurs when you plug your microphone into your PC or Mac? I plug my microphone directly into the receiver (MarantzCinema50) and I don't have this problem.My Windows PC is then connected to the Marantz via the home network.
 

JW001

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I was able to finish Dirac Live calibration on a 10-years old HP laptop running Windows 10 Home Edition (i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz, 8GB). Had to repeat some measurements a couple of times after getting the "imprecise measurements" notice. I think the message is generated when the signal to noise ratio is low. When the measurement is run, Dirac Live displays a graphical cue in the form of a modulated strip of varying width. The wider the strip the lower the S/N ratio. In those cases I just increased the sweep volume a little and ran the measurent again. Always worked for me. Also, I made sure to turn off the biggest offenders, AC and the fridge.

For me the best thing about DL is the ability to quickly design room curves and store them in presets. I run my Flex in a small office with a lot of reflections and a couple of nasty modes. I can't say the modes are fixed completely, but I can now listen to rock music with basslines that sounded very objectionable before. And the curves made my DBR2s sound warm and unfatiguing.

My setup: laptop/TV/Bluray Player -> Flex DL -> Yamaha A-S801 -> DBR2
-> SVS SB1000

Here is my most often used calibration:
preset3.PNG
 
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C3KO

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I have tried different devices (also my friend did the same, even PC vs Mac)
No luck whatsoever....
There is still no solution to this and there has been radio silence from Dirac for months now.... which I find really odd to say the least
I think Dirac has overreached itself with ART & Bass Control and can no longer produce a stable version.

My tip, a pure Dirac Version for only stereo 2.0 ;)
 
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ppataki

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Is it possible that the problem only occurs when you plug your microphone into your PC or Mac? I plug my microphone directly into the receiver (MarantzCinema50) and I don't have this problem.My Windows PC is then connected to the Marantz via the home network.
I cannot test that since I don't have an AVR
 
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