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Dirac Live Bass Management?

phoenixdogfan

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So you like my post? there is a button...:p
Flavio (Flak) works for Dirac. In many forums he provided a lot of info and updates. There are also very good interview (home theatre geeks ep. 269) to Mathias J, Dirac CEO. Go on youtube, you’ll find a lot. For the product release consider Dirac live bass management is the trikle down version of Unison for the low frequency only. It’s difficult as far as I understood to calibrate unison full range. Let’s wait @Flak , is public holiday today in Italy. Best
Lorenzo
Well, in that case, the worst case scenario would be to buy the "trickle down version of Unison for low frequency only" and then be required to pay the full (fool) cost of Unison if and when it finally rolls out to high end buyers who listen to music and AV sound tracks someplace other than the cabin of a Volvo.
 

Another Bob

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Flavio (Flak) works for Dirac. In many forums he provided a lot of info and updates. There is also a very good interview (home theatre geeks ep. 269) to Mathias J, Dirac CEO. Go on youtube, you’ll find a lot.
While participating in "many forums" is nice, I don't consider it an effective customer support strategy. Besides, Flak hasn't posted to this thread since September, despite several queries directed specifically to him. Why is there no official, centralized Dirac user forum? Why aren't they communicating with people who have signed up for the beta? This is one of the reasons I'm seriously considering switching to Audiolense, even though the extra complexity is a giant turn-off.
 

Lorenzo74

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While participating in "many forums" is nice, I don't consider it an effective customer support strategy. Besides, Flak hasn't posted to this thread since September, despite several queries directed specifically to him. Why is there no official, centralized Dirac user forum? Why aren't they communicating with people who have signed up for the beta? This is one of the reasons I'm seriously considering switching to Audiolense, even though the extra complexity is a giant turn-off.
Dirac so far is providing best signal processing regardless the customer care you’re questioning. It’s your choice to abandon dirac for something else. Be happy.
 
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Is there an update on whether the MiniDSP SHD will support Dirac Live Bass Control? I understand from this thread that there is no *technical* reason for this not to happen, but of course there can always be a business reason. That said, I know that MiniDSP has commented that they were working offical Roon support despite it being a future thing. I would think that stating they were working on getting out DLBC for the SHD would also be appreciated. Apologies if I missed this somewhere else.
 

Lorenzo74

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Is there an update on whether the MiniDSP SHD will support Dirac Live Bass Control? I understand from this thread that there is no *technical* reason for this not to happen, but of course there can always be a business reason. That said, I know that MiniDSP has commented that they were working offical Roon support despite it being a future thing. I would think that stating they were working on getting out DLBC for the SHD would also be appreciated. Apologies if I missed this somewhere else.
I suggest you to write in minidsp forum and ask to dev team. there a a "plans for supporting Dirac live bass" many aske the same question... so far no clear answer. @Flak works for Dirac and maybe he is in the position to answer...
 
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dkinric

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No. MiniDSP will not comment, even when asked directly on their own support boards (by me). They don't say we're working on it, they don't say we don't know, the only response I've seen is to ignore the question (they answered other questions). Personally, I am no longer considering them due to this confoundingly poor customer service decision. <Easy to say for now>
 

phoenixdogfan

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No. MiniDSP will not comment, even when asked directly on their own support boards (by me). They don't say we're working on it, they don't say we don't know, the only response I've seen is to ignore the question (they answered other questions). Personally, I am no longer considering them due to this confoundingly poor customer service decision. <Easy to say for now>
MiniDsp is another of those companies I find profoundly disappointing. To me it seems they either fail to offer what you really want, or if they do have a package that comes close, it's priced in the stratosphere.


The miniDSP 2x4 Hd is a prime example. It will accept USB signal (not just USB control inputs for the firmware) but it won't output a digital signal, and the analog output comes from what Amir characterizes as a $30 DAC. Moreover it has the ability to accept analog inputs but those inputs degrade the signal even beyond what the cheap dac does. If they just offered a better A to D conversion, and had usb or spidf outputs for the four channels, while continuing to offer Dirac Live 3, the thing would be very nearly ideal. Why they won't just do this is beyond me. I know I'd pay a $200-300 premium over the current DDRC24.

I know they have a similar box that outputs spidf, but it had no Dirac, no A to D converter, and won't accept USB signal input. Again, another example of withholding what people really want.

I know I could get all that in the SHD, but I don't want the bigger box, and I don't want the higher price.

MiniDSP also pulled their Nanosharc processing board right around the time Octo was starting to incorporate it into the Octo DAC 8 DSP, probably to cut off the competition, I would think. So I don't think I'll be sending miniDSP any of my business anytime soon.
 

Lorenzo74

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MiniDsp is another of those companies I find profoundly disappointing. To me it seems they either fail to offer what you really want, or if they do have a package that comes close, it's priced in the stratosphere.


The miniDSP 2x4 Hd is a prime example. It will accept USB signal (not just USB control inputs for the firmware) but it won't output a digital signal, and the analog output comes from what Amir characterizes as a $30 DAC. Moreover it has the ability to accept analog inputs but those inputs degrade the signal even beyond what the cheap dac does. If they just offered a better A to D conversion, and had usb or spidf outputs for the four channels, while continuing to offer Dirac Live 3, the thing would be very nearly ideal. Why they won't just do this is beyond me. I know I'd pay a $200-300 premium over the current DDRC24.

I know they have a similar box that outputs spidf, but it had no Dirac, no A to D converter, and won't accept USB signal input. Again, another example of withholding what people really want.

I know I could get all that in the SHD, but I don't want the bigger box, and I don't want the higher price.

MiniDSP also pulled their Nanosharc processing board right around the time Octo was starting to incorporate it into the Octo DAC 8 DSP, probably to cut off the competition, I would think. So I don't think I'll be sending miniDSP any of my business anytime soon.
i think minidsp is the company we should really hope other will look at and be inspired by. they were among the first to sell DSP when people bought class A and Class AB amps. they were among the first to features Dirac live. the first to provide full digital, Analog multichannel processors at low cost with decent quality.
i have the minidsp ddrc24 and i agree with you that if it would have had another spdif out (just one) for a better external DAC (any ESS9039pro) it would have been a giant killer, the mass market product "all in one, one size fits all".
but they do the SHD and in the crazy audiopholery market 1,2k€/$ is nothing. and if you love convenience and peace of mind go for SHD power. just add a good Floor standers or Bookshelf and sub and you'll be incredibly rewarded.

I suggest you to listen by yourself to DDRC24. 30$dac is beyond my ears capability (24/96 with more than 90db of dynamic range (CD-ROM) and a THD much below audibility), real rooms early reflections screw up the direct signal much more 20db sinad over 90db.
do you really need SINAD above 90? I struggle to hear sinewave at 14kHz and I'm just 46 years old. my young daughter could detect 17kHz, what kind of HD sound we are looking for if it won't excite our ears or reach out our brain...?
Amir concluded that "it" worth the price for all it delivered (room tuning.. ) and he didn't took Dirac live in the equation.
try it, with few absorbers on early reflection points, a rugged carpet (some bass trap if you can) and yes, maybe you are very close to happiness, more than you might believe.
my best

ps look at this, if you have some skill in DIY, with 50€ you have the gold set
 

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RichB

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I second the vote to look at the SHD. I have the full model and the USB input is wonderful. You can import between REW filters or use Dirac.
In a 2.2 system, you can use PEQ to optimize the subwoofers with separate outputs for each and then treat them as one.
In a 2.x system, you can set crossovers as well.

There is huge flexibility in this device. It sounds great via USB (RPI3 and Roon Bridge) but Roon Ready support is promised and not yet delivered.

- Rich
 
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mdsimon2

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MiniDsp is another of those companies I find profoundly disappointing. To me it seems they either fail to offer what you really want, or if they do have a package that comes close, it's priced in the stratosphere.


The miniDSP 2x4 Hd is a prime example. It will accept USB signal (not just USB control inputs for the firmware) but it won't output a digital signal, and the analog output comes from what Amir characterizes as a $30 DAC. Moreover it has the ability to accept analog inputs but those inputs degrade the signal even beyond what the cheap dac does. If they just offered a better A to D conversion, and had usb or spidf outputs for the four channels, while continuing to offer Dirac Live 3, the thing would be very nearly ideal. Why they won't just do this is beyond me. I know I'd pay a $200-300 premium over the current DDRC24.

I know they have a similar box that outputs spidf, but it had no Dirac, no A to D converter, and won't accept USB signal input. Again, another example of withholding what people really want.

I know I could get all that in the SHD, but I don't want the bigger box, and I don't want the higher price.

MiniDSP also pulled their Nanosharc processing board right around the time Octo was starting to incorporate it into the Octo DAC 8 DSP, probably to cut off the competition, I would think. So I don't think I'll be sending miniDSP any of my business anytime soon.
Like others I really do not understand this opinion. I do think that miniDSP has changed quite a bit from their early days where they were much more DIY focused and this has resulted in a shift towards products like the SHD away from products like the nanoSHARC. Personally I am not a huge fan of this but they still have many products with huge value (miniSHARC @ $185) that are geared towards DIYers.

2X4HD has a SINAD of ~95 dB (see attached), personally I think this is quite good. If you use the analog input this drops to ~88 dB (see attached) but this is still quite respectable considering the processing power it has. Where else can you get 10 PEQs on every channel (input and output), custom biquads and FIR filtering for $200?

It also has I2S headers so if you are unsatisfied with the DAC you can relatively easily add your own SPDIF outputs or better performing I2S DACs.

If anything the fact that you can upgrade to Dirac (DDRC-24) for $200 is underpriced. Sure you lose the I2S outputs but this is one of the cheapest ways to get in to Dirac.

Michael
 

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Like others I really do not understand this opinion. I do think that miniDSP has changed quite a bit from their early days where they were much more DIY focused and this has resulted in a shift towards products like the SHD away from products like the nanoSHARC. Personally I am not a huge fan of this but they still have many products with huge value (miniSHARC @ $185) that are geared towards DIYers.

2X4HD has a SINAD of ~95 dB (see attached), personally I think this is quite good. If you use the analog input this drops to ~88 dB (see attached) but this is still quite respectable considering the processing power it has. Where else can you get 10 PEQs on every channel (input and output), custom biquads and FIR filtering for $200?

It also has I2S headers so if you are unsatisfied with the DAC you can relatively easily add your own SPDIF outputs or better performing I2S DACs.

If anything the fact that you can upgrade to Dirac (DDRC-24) for $200 is underpriced. Sure you lose the I2S outputs but this is one of the cheapest ways to get in to Dirac.

Michael
Why do you lose I2S outputs with DDRC-24 ?
 

mdsimon2

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Why do you lose I2S outputs with DDRC-24 ?
Originally the I2S header was not enabled on the 2X4HD but that functionality was added with a later firmware update. According to the thread below the I2S header was not enabled on the DDRC-24 due to Dirac licensing issues. I guess that makes sense as I2S is rather fiddly and if folks do not know what they are doing I could easily see a lot of unhappy customers.

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/hardware-support/15866-enable-j7-i2s-output-on-ddrc-24

If you look at the DDRC-24 SPDIF output mod that was posted they soldered directly to the DAC chip pins and did not use the I2S header.

Michael
 

phoenixdogfan

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i think minidsp is the company we should really hope other will look at and be inspired by. they were among the first to sell DSP when people bought class A and Class AB amps. they were among the first to features Dirac live. the first to provide full digital, Analog multichannel processors at low cost with decent quality.
i have the minidsp ddrc24 and i agree with you that if it would have had another spdif out (just one) for a better external DAC (any ESS9039pro) it would have been a giant killer, the mass market product "all in one, one size fits all".
but they do the SHD and in the crazy audiopholery market 1,2k€/$ is nothing. and if you love convenience and peace of mind go for SHD power. just add a good Floor standers or Bookshelf and sub and you'll be incredibly rewarded.

I suggest you to listen by yourself to DDRC24. 30$dac is beyond my ears capability (24/96 with more than 90db of dynamic range (CD-ROM) and a THD much below audibility), real rooms early reflections screw up the direct signal much more 20db sinad over 90db.
do you really need SINAD above 90? I struggle to hear sinewave at 14kHz and I'm just 46 years old. my young daughter could detect 17kHz, what kind of HD sound we are looking for if it won't excite our ears or reach out our brain...?
Amir concluded that "it" worth the price for all it delivered (room tuning.. ) and he didn't took Dirac live in the equation.
try it, with few absorbers on early reflection points, a rugged carpet (some bass trap if you can) and yes, maybe you are very close to happiness, more than you might believe.
my best

ps look at this, if you have some skill in DIY, with 50€ you have the gold set
I have one and I sent it out to someone for the Umlautica mod. The spidf doesn't work. I'll probably be sending it back when I get the time. Right now I'm tied up with other projects. And, yeah, I know anything with 90 db sinad is probably completely transparent. Just the principle of the thing, I guess.
 

phoenixdogfan

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Originally the I2S header was not enabled on the 2X4HD but that functionality was added with a later firmware update. According to the thread below the I2S header was not enabled on the DDRC-24 due to Dirac licensing issues. I guess that makes sense as I2S is rather fiddly and if folks do not know what they are doing I could easily see a lot of unhappy customers.

https://www.minidsp.com/forum/hardware-support/15866-enable-j7-i2s-output-on-ddrc-24

If you look at the DDRC-24 SPDIF output mod that was posted they soldered directly to the DAC chip pins and did not use the I2S header.

Michael
You have to do that BTW, b/c their firmware incorporating Dirac will not run off the i2s header. Which is, IMO, another dick move by miniDSP to insure you pay the full (fool) freight for an SHD.
 

Dj7675

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No. MiniDSP will not comment, even when asked directly on their own support boards (by me). They don't say we're working on it, they don't say we don't know, the only response I've seen is to ignore the question (they answered other questions). Personally, I am no longer considering them due to this confoundingly poor customer service decision. <Easy to say for now>
I asked them a slightly different question.. is there anything in the SHD hardware that would preclude them from offering DLBM and was told no, it is just software.
 

phoenixdogfan

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I asked them a slightly different question.. is there anything in the SHD hardware that would preclude them from offering DLBM and was told no, it is just software.
Another reason to avoid. All I want is all my xovers, eq, and room and speaker correction (including bass management) in one small, reasonably priced box with a full suite (usb, spidf, and toslink) of digital I/O's, and miniDSP teases without satisfying.
 

txbdan

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oursmagenta

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Hi Flak,

I'm a current user of the DLP Stereo processor that I use on my Mac with excellent results. I wanted to chime in saying eagerly awaiting info/release on a PC/Mac 2.1 solution. I'd be happy to help beta test if possible.
Any news ?
 

Flak

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Hi @txbdan and @oursmagenta
Bass Control for the Dirac Processor isn't available yet as the standalone version of Dirac Live for Mac got priority and we're still working on it.
There is a possibility of experimenting with Bass Control but it's rather "convoluted" (pun intended :) )
if interested nonetheless please contact us at https://helpdesk.dirac.se

Thanks for your interest in Bass Control!
 

txbdan

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Hi @txbdan and @oursmagenta
Bass Control for the Dirac Processor isn't available yet as the standalone version of Dirac Live for Mac got priority and we're still working on it.
There is a possibility of experimenting with Bass Control but it's rather "convoluted" (pun intended :) )
if interested nonetheless please contact us at https://helpdesk.dirac.se

Thanks for your interest in Bass Control!
Interesting, can you elaborate on what the standalone version for Mac is/does? I currently use the plugin hosted in SoundSource on my Mac. Im happy to help beta test!
 
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