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Dirac Live Bass Management?

ephemere

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I'm building a 2.1 system and would like to have DSP room correction. I was looking at these DAC/preamp/streamers with Dirac Live:
  • NAD C658
  • MiniDSP SHD
The nice thing about NAD is BluOS, which seems more mature than Volumio (although I've never used either). However, the NAD seems pretty crippled for the subwoofer and any post-Dirac EQ. The crossover configuration is fixed (I think), and there is just simple bass/treble controls. Whereas the SHD has a flexible crossover and parametric EQ. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of mic comes with the NAD. So the SHD is winning....

But then I saw the announcement of Dirac Live Bass Management, which said the NAD C658 will be getting it as an add-on option. It's hard to tell what DLBM actually is, but I imagine it will bypass NAD's fixed crossover (or maybe not). So now what to do?

Is anything known about DLBM? The little info I can glean is pretty sketchy.

Will the SHD be getting an option to add DLBM? Maybe I'll ask MiniDSP.

P.S.: I wish the SHD's screen could be turned off b/c this system is in a bedroom. That might actually be a deal-breaker right there. :(
 
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ephemere

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I see MiniDSP has forums and there is a little discussion about this over there.
 

laidick

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You could just add a MiniDSP 2x4HD in the chain to manage and equalize your subwoofer(s).
If you use MSO(multi sub optimizer) it will be even better, but that needs a bit learning curve.
 

Flak

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@amirm
that's correct (pun intended :)), in addition to correct the respective interactions among multiple subs the advanced Dirac Bass Management also corrects the interaction between the sub/s and the main speakers at the crossover region (this is possible only if dedicated channel/s is/are available)
Worth noting that when a single subwoofer is used its positioning is less critical and it can be placed in a more practical/aesthetically pleasant position.

@audimus
sorry but that beta testing is not currently active, the link is not present anymore in our site but we should remove that page as well in order to avoid possible confusion

Flavio
 
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ephemere

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@laidick
The SHD seems to have the same backend DSP capabilities (crossover, PEQ) as the MiniDSP 2x4HD (and DDRC-24). So if I go with the SHD then I don't need it. I guess your point is that if I go with the NAD C658 instead of the SHD then I could add the 2x4HD downstream, but then I'd be bypassing the NAD's DAC for the (inferior? and unbalanced) DAC of the 2x4HD. However, I could replace it with Dirac Live Bass Management if/when it becomes available to the NAD.

@Flak
Thanks for that info. The promise of integrating sub with main speakers is making me think I should wait until DLBM becomes available. I've had a tough time integrating my sub and mains so far, despite using a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0.

Now that I look at the MiniDSP product line more carefully, the DDRC-24 could be a good option. Dirac Live and backend crossover/PEQ for a reasonably low cost. At least then I could get some experience with this kind of DSP architecture while I'm waiting for Dirac Bass Management to be released. Too bad it doesn't have digital out.
 

BDWoody

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@laidick

Now that I look at the MiniDSP product line more carefully, the DDRC-24 could be a good option. Dirac Live and backend crossover/PEQ for a reasonably low cost. At least then I could get some experience with this kind of DSP architecture while I'm waiting for Dirac Bass Management to be released. Too bad it doesn't have digital out.

You can go with the ddrc 88d...digital in and out. Choice of coax or aes. I have a udio8, which is usb to 8 channel digital, to the 88d, then to either powered speakers with aes in, or to a separate DAC.
 

digicidal

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Well I'm selfishly hoping you go with the C658 simply because I was very close to pulling the trigger on that myself (still might, but the DAC performance of other, higher offerings from them dampened my spirits a bit). So I'd love to see another person's impressions on one "in the wild".

Honestly the SHD is probably about the best in terms of what you want to do - but I agree with the panel issues. In my case it would be front and center below my TV in the family room... and I want a bright screen there even less than in the bedroom. :confused:
 

audimus

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@audimus
sorry but that beta testing is not currently active, the link is not present anymore in our site but we should remove that page as well in order to avoid possible confusion

Flavio

Thanks for the update. Are you allowed to give any further info on the 3 tiers of the DLBM mentioned in one of the blog posts? Which tier will be available through which means? Not sure what the free tier implies.
 
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ephemere

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After doing some more research, I'll probably go with the NAD C658. I didn't realize the subwoofer crossover point is in fact adjustable. I was going by the user manual, but NAD added that feature later in a firmware update. This was my main concern with the C658.

Here's my breakdown between the two, in case it helps anyone else.

NAD C658 advantages over the MiniDSP SHD:
  • BluOS (SHD: Volumio): this is admittedly a judgment call
  • Integrated dual-band wifi (SHD: 2.5GHz adapter)
  • Bluetooth input/output (SHD: input only)
  • phono input
  • 2 toslink inputs (SHD: 1)
  • 2 coax inputs (SHD: 1)
  • headphone amp
  • MQA decoding (presumably only through streaming, but I'm not sure)
  • compatible with upcoming Dirac Live Bass Management
  • 12V trigger input/output
  • expandable via 2 MDC slots
  • can turn off the front display
MiniDSP SHD advantages over the NAD C658
  • lower base cost
  • includes Dirac full range (C658: $100 extra)
  • one balanced and one unbalanced analog input (C658: both are unbalanced)
  • AES/EBU input
  • USB input
  • balanced output for 3/4 channels (C658: unbalanced subwoofer outputs)
  • S/PDIF outputs
  • USB outputs
  • more sophisticated crossover function (I think?)
  • backend PEQ
  • better microphone (this is speculative)
  • more compact
 

cookiefactory

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I received a C658 this past week (have not had a chance to listen yet). The included mic is indeed a dinky little thing. I’ve ordered a UMIK-1 to play around with.
 

audimus

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One advantage of Dirac full over other commercial offerings is that like REW you can use a mic of your choice with its calibration files. Other offerings like ARC or Audyssey should allow this.
 

Flak

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@audimus

With reference to the tier 3 version of Dirac Bass Management which will be free....

Dirac Live will manage the crossover replacing the AVR's one.

By using a dedicated channel it will time-align the sub to the main speakers and will compute and display in real-time the combined results of sub + mains at the crossover region of frequencies.

As a result, the user will be able to choose the crossover frequency that offers the best results.

For Tier 3 there is no guidance for which the best choices are, you will have to use your own knowledge for that.

Tier 2 instead will compute the best crossover frequency automatically and correct the combined response while tier 3 doesn't

Tier 2 works with the phase _and_ the magnitude to achieve a better summation, something that cannot be done manually in Tier 3.

Finally, Tier 1 will correct the respective interactions among multiple subs as well as their interactions with the speakers at the crossover frequency

Flavio
 
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DaleMurray

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I have:
- NAD C658
- Dirac Live full frequency license
- Two single 12" subs in sealed cabinets power by an amp with zero EQ or crossover function

I am over the moon with the results I get from Dirac as it is and chomping at the bit to get Bass Management.

What is Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3?
Will all tiers be available with the C658 (at a cost no doubt)?
 

KarVi71

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I have:
- NAD C658
- Dirac Live full frequency license
- Two single 12" subs in sealed cabinets power by an amp with zero EQ or crossover function

I am over the moon with the results I get from Dirac as it is and chomping at the bit to get Bass Management.

What is Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3?
Will all tiers be available with the C658 (at a cost no doubt)?

The different Tiers are different levels of automatism and functionality.
Flak explained it well in the post just before yours.
According to a thread on avsforum (and the article here: https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dirac-live-bass-management), the proposed prices are:
Tier 3 should be free.
Tier 2, which supports 1 sub should be 249$
Tier 1, which supports 2 sbus should be 399$

I'm also looking forward to seeing what bass management can bring to my system :)
 
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Flak

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The different Tiers are different levels of automatism and functionality.
Flak explained it well in the post just before yours.
According to a thread on avsforum, the proposed prices are:
Tier 1 should be free.
Tier 2, which supports 1 sub should be 249$
Tier 3, which supports 2 sbus should be 399$

I'm also looking forward to seeing what bass management can bring to my system :)

Hi KarVi71,

I had inverted the Tier numbering (in my mind the higher tier the better...) so I've modified my post as necessary, Tiers go from 3 to 1.

Also, we have found more interest than originally planned and eventually development costs could be spread on a larger number of units, as a result it's possible that the cost will be reduced to $199... I cannot say for sure though, it's just a possibility.
Let's wait and see...
 

KarVi71

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Hi KarVi71,

I had inverted the Tier numbering (in my mind the higher tier the better...) so I've modified my post as necessary, Tiers go from 3 to 1.

Also, we have found more interest than originally planned and eventually development costs could be spread on a larger number of units, as a result it's possible that the cost will be reduced to $199... I cannot say for sure though, it's just a possibility.
Let's wait and see...

OK. I will change the tiers in my post accordingly.

Edit:
And I like the idea of lower prices :)
 
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Chazzbo

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Uhhh not sure why nobody has yet mentioned the fact that SHD is now Roon endpoint.That would be a killer for me and NAD would be only choice.Why fret over Volumio if your going to use it daily with Roon?Am I wrong here?Also wondering if in fact SHD would be better in it's xover functions and Dirac or is that not the case i.e. NAD full Dirac license will allow for same level of funtion all be it without 2/4 out (essential for me if I think at some point I might want to use it as full crossover).But to me Roon puts SHD in lead at the finish line.Thoughts corrections?
 

5wavesup

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I am also considering these and other devices to add DSP. I know I can add a MiniDSP product in the chain, but I would prefer to replace existing pieces with one component and be done with it...Please keep us updated guys! Thanks
 
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