Reconsidering My Setup

[airs]

DGAF. And neither should you. That’s a dumb and completely inaudible reason to add another box and further control headaches.



Worst of all worlds! Just connect the WiiM using toslink or coax. Doesn’t generally matter which. Assuming WiiM is even needed; if you use AirPlay then take it out too.

Interesting opinion. I could use AirPlay (limited to 48khz I think) and the x4800h’s DAC, but it seems like a waste of high SINAD amplification. I guess your contention is that the difference is inaudible?

 

[jhaider]

but it seems like a waste of high SINAD amplification. I guess your contention is that the difference is inaudible?

Yep. Why do you think the difference might be audible, and how so?

(FWIW, I’ve done comparisons on headphones between USB in and AirPlay over optical (I think at the time via WiiM Mini - now use a Pro for other reasons) with an RME ADI-2. Result was zero guilt going for the convenience of AirPlay over the tyranny and ugliness of wires for desk-bound headphone listening.

Further, DLBC runs at 48kHz anyway. So even if higher sampling rates were not bullshit (they are, for consumer playback) you’d be there regardless.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Just skip the SHD and use the x4800 Dirac and bass management options. The SHD is kind of redundant here.

Agreed.

Dirac is currently discounting their software 20 percent off list price through Monday, Dec. 02, 2024.

 

[pollock0424]

As other said, don't worry too much about SINAD. Here are my two proposals.

1. Sell the SHD, use your Denon also for Streaming. Most AVRs have decent streamer. No need to add yet another box (streamer). This way, you'll have your Dirac and DLBC (They both are mediocre at best but that's a different discussion, i have them on my Integra 8.4).

2. If you're too concerned about SINAD for 2ch stereo. Set aside everything DIRAC, use Left and Right digital out (set your AVR to direct mode and use it for streaming). Use SHD for 2ch strictly....

 

[Mr. Widget]

Btw
Have you tried switching the placement of the plant and the subwoofer?
That may allow the left speaker to push out a few inches

Agreed.

If you haven't already, I would experiment with speaker placement and especially sub placement. I was using a single Revel B112 in a corner of my room and it produced prodigious bass but also excited numerous modes in the room. I ultimately replaced it with three smaller subs located with the help of REW and it was a gigantic improvement.

 

[PEQuestrian]

As other said, don't worry too much about SINAD. Here are my two proposals.

1. Sell the SHD, use your Denon also for Streaming. Most AVRs have decent streamer. No need to add yet another box (streamer). This way, you'll have your Dirac and DLBC (They both are mediocre at best but that's a different discussion, i have them on my Integra 8.4).

2. If you're too concerned about SINAD for 2ch stereo. Set aside everything DIRAC, use Left and Right digital out (set your AVR to direct mode and use it for streaming). Use SHD for 2ch strictly....

Qobuz can't stream directly into the Denons / Heos.

OP, before you spend a bunch of money on a DL(BC) license tied to a device that could turn into a paperweight in the near future (hopefully not), I'm pretty sure you can get very good results with just your X4800h + Audyssey and better yet with the use of this and the $20 Audyssey app.

I've been feeding my X3800h music from Qobuz using a now only $71 WiiM Mini via Toslink (24/192). Sounds great. In my system and in descending order of impact, room correction, a great house curve, welled integrated dual subs and lastly Qobuz (vs Spotify) made the most positively audible difference(s).

Here's what I would do

(1) The simple & cheap solution is: if you don't want to spend any money or time really dialing in your Audyssey, just keep the current setup.
(2) If you have the itch, $90 and time over the Holiday season, get the WiiM, the Audyssey app and really learn it. I personally don't believe in running it in "set & forget" at all (esp. speaker volumes, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume etc.) but find it very capable once you know what you're doing.
(3) Compare your dialed-in Audyssey output with your SHD for music and if it's as good or better, sell the SHD

 

[FrantzM]

That better SINAD is irrelevant because you already use the x4800h DAC. Either way, you probably won’t hear the difference. As for the WiiM, I would connect it digitally to the x4800h. Then you only have one DAC in the system.


How would that work? You can’t feed back the processed signal back into the AVR. This only works if you use it between streamer and AVR, but then it only works with the streamer, not any other source.

Well it works. No need for feeding back.
The miniDSP has 2 in and 4 out.
You assign each of the 2x4 HD out to one single subwoofer
One sub out of the AVR is connected to one input of the 2x4 HD. The AVR is presented with (thanks to REW and MSO) a linearized, flat subwoofer.
I am not sold on DIRAC personally. I haven't seen anything that proves it is superior to Audyssey MultiEQ-X.
I very much the results in my system

Peace.

 

[voodooless]

One sub out of the AVR is connected to one input of the 2x4 HD. The AVR is presented with (thanks to REW and MSO) a linearized, flat subwoofer.

Ah, now I see what you mean. By "The AVR is presented with" you mean Dirac or Audyssey is presented with.

Yes, if you would not buy DLBC, this would probably the next best/or arguably a better(?) thing to to.

 

[Astoneroad]

Nice rig! I'm with the consensus, sell the SHD and use your Denon with Dirac. I owned the 208's and loved them.

 

[voodooless]

I am not sold on DIRAC personally. I haven't seen anything that proves it is superior to Audyssey MultiEQ-X.

This is a tough question. From what I gathered, Audyssey, by default, is better at subwoofer integration unless you go with DLBC. As for the rest, I would assume they are fairly similar. They are both a mix of linear and minimum-phase filtering and roughly have the same resource allocation (given the fact that they run on similar or the same hardware). So, I would indeed expect them to perform close to each other. Besides that, Audyssey Dynamic EQ offers something that Dirac does not have, and it's very useful when you do not want to listen at reference level all te time.

 

[FrantzM]

MSO is extremely effective. As in anything do not expect tp just drop the subwoofers anywhere in the room and expect it to perform magic.
REW has to be used for the individual subwoofers measurements anyway, one might as well use its predictive algorithms for better subwoofer positioning as to minimize large peaks and nulls. Once that is done, MSO perform its calculations. In most cases it will present you with a very good bass response at multiple seating postions. You can choose to prioritize your Main Listening Position(MLP)..
In my case when presented with that linearized "subwoofer" Audyssey doesn't touch its response.. It corrects the other speakers to mesh/merge/integrate their low end response with that "subwoofer". The results are to me, extremely good, subjectively and objectively. I had a thread where I presented my response in the lows... It was linear within plus or minus 2.5 dB from 300 Hz to 18 Hz,,, Too lazy and busy to look for it.

While I was typing this post I came across the last post by @voodooless . I can't fathom an Audio world wihout loudness compensation. Dynamic EQ works for me. SO far this is a feature of Audyssey. that is NOT as commonplace as it should. I will not use Dirac or any DRC that doesn't have some loudness compensation.

Peace

 

[Mort]

I run a similar system to yours with a MiniDsp DDRC-24 and an external 2 ch amp for music and an x4800h for TV.

My secret is a BobWire RCA1. It let's two preamps share amps and speakers.

It'll automatically sense whether the AVR or the MiniDsp is playing and route it along with subwoofer to the right amps.

My partner LOVES that she never has to search for the pre amp remote. She just turns on the TV and it works.

 

[voodooless]

one might as well use its predictive algorithms for better subwoofer positioning as to minimize large peaks and nulls.

Unless you don't have a rectangular room...

 

[pollock0424]

I am also looking for a solution for amp sharing for my AVR and RME ADI-2 Pro FS. Currently, RME goes through AVR (direct and volume set to 0). Integra DRX-8.4 has a measured THD+N of 105db for the XLR preamp inputs in direct mode.

I use RME remote for volume control. Other option is to buy a FreyaS and use it in passive mode. FreyaS will switch AVR and RME for my Purifi 1ET7040SA Buckeye Amps.

@Mort suggested a cheaper alternative and BobWireXLR1 costs 270$ as opposed to 600$ for FreyaS.