Reconsidering My Setup

[airs]

Hi all, I'm wondering if you can provide some feedback about my existing setup and plans for the future. I use my setup for both watching shows as well as music listening. It is a dedicated room, but not large (3.6m x 5.9m). My equipment is as follows:

MiniDSP SHD
Denon x4800h
Buckeye NCx500 3ch amp
Revel F208 mains
Revel C426Be center
PSB 6.5" bookshelves rears
HSU ULS-15 MK2 x2 subwoofers

I've experimented with different ways to integrate music listening with watching shows. Currently I have it setup such that for watching shows, the x4800h feeds the SHD the left/right signal and directly feeds the Buckeye the center signal (RCA to XLR cables). The SHD in turn feeds the Buckeye the left/right signal. For the rears I am utilizing the x4800h's onboard amplification. The subwoofers are fed signals directly from the x4800h, as well as the SHD (left input on each sub is driven by the SHD, right input driven by the x4800h). Preset 1 on the SHD is used for this function, which applies no processing, and does not output a signal to channels 3 and 4 (subwoofer outputs). Then, when I want to listen to music (Qobuz and locally hosted Flac files), I switch to Preset 2 on the SHD, with Dirac and the subs being fed signals. I have the Buckeye set to turn on automatically when it senses a signal. For music listening room correction, I am utilizing MSO+REW for the subs, and then running Dirac on the SHD. For watching shows, I do not currently use room correction but am considering purchasing Dirac with Bass Control for the x4800h since it is on sale for Black Friday.

Am I overcomplicating things? Do you see a way to simplify my setup without sacrificing too much in the way of sound quality? I wonder how much I am gaining from having the SHD in the mix (versus running everything off of the x4800h), especially if I were to purchase the Dirac + Bass Control license for the x4800h. Or perhaps I should consider using the SHD purely as a source and have it's analog outputs feed the x4800h?

 

[BDWoody]

Nothing of value to add in terms of what's worth what to change, but I bet that's a pretty nice sounding setup. Looks well put together.

 

[BillH]

Sounds like a super nice setup.
Is there something in particular you’re trying to solve?
I’m not sure I understand why you think you might change things

 

[BillH]

Btw
Have you tried switching the placement of the plant and the subwoofer?
That may allow the left speaker to push out a few inches

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Since you’re asking…

I’d replace the SHD with the less expensive miniDSP 2x4 HD. ($300-ish) just for subwoofer linearization and integration. I’d get the least expensive but equally performant Audyssey MultEQx ($200) and leave the Denon X-4800 do it’s stuff . Perhaps add a WiiM streamer to this (near endgame) system.

Likely my next system.

Peace.

 

[Rednaxela]

Would it be an option to try @OCA’s algorithms, and take the SHD out of the equation?

 

[voodooless]

Just skip the SHD and use the x4800 Dirac and bass management options. The SHD is kind of redundant here.

 

[terryforsythe]

I wonder how much I am gaining from having the SHD in the mix (versus running everything off of the x4800h), especially if I were to purchase the Dirac + Bass Control license for the x4800h. Or perhaps I should consider using the SHD purely as a source and have it's analog outputs feed the x4800h?

The question is whether you can acheive everyting you desire using just the x4800h if you add Dirac with Bass Control? If so, sell the SHD and just use the x4800.

If the x4800h will not do everything you desire after adding Dirac with Bass Control, then keep your setup.

Alternatively, you could sell the x4800h and the SHD, and replace them with something that will do everything you want. Take a look at the miniDSP Flex HTx. It does not have streaming, so you also would want to add one that has a TosLink or SPDIF coax output, perhaps something like a WiiM Pro.

 

[pollock0424]

IMHO sell the miniDSP. I have a similar setup and if you really want a preamp/PEQ there are better options. Denon probably has dirac license?

 

[terryforsythe]

Denon probably has dirac license?

The license is available from Dirac. The price depends on which options are chosen.

 

[terryforsythe]

Alternatively, you could sell the x4800h and the SHD, and replace them with something that will do everything you want. Take a look at the miniDSP Flex HTx. It does not have streaming, so you also would want to add one that has a TosLink or SPDIF coax output, perhaps something like a WiiM Pro.

FYI, I don't think miniDSP products work with Dirac Live Bass Control. They only use Dirac Live.

 

[pollock0424]

Do you plan to add more surrounds and ATMOS? If no, sell the Denon and get a cheaper model.

Do you need Dirac? Is Audyssey not sufficient?

You're already capable of using MSO and REW to align subs..

 

[jhaider]

I see no point to having two preamps in a system. I would sell the SHD or repurpose it in another room.

 

[waynel]

Excellent equipment . I would suggest a console wider than your tv for aesthetic reasons . The large center balanced on a small stand looks a little off.

 

[airs]

Thank you everyone for your responses!

Btw
Have you tried switching the placement of the plant and the subwoofer?
That may allow the left speaker to push out a few inches

Thanks for the suggestion - I have tried that, but the bass response is better with this orientation for my room and the imaging from the mains is too /shrug

Hi

Since you’re asking…

I’d replace the SHD with the less expensive miniDSP 2x4 HD. ($300-ish) just for subwoofer linearization and integration. I’d get the least expensive but equally performant Audyssey MultEQx ($200) and leave the Denon X-4800 do it’s stuff . Perhaps add a WiiM streamer to this (near endgame) system.

Likely my next system.

Peace.

Interesting. Does Multeq-x include their version of Dirac Bass Control? My google searches haven't turned up a definitive answer. A WiiM Ultra arrived this morning.

Would it be an option to try @OCA’s algorithms, and take the SHD out of the equation?

This refers to A1-Evo, correct? I made a half-hearted attempt at this a few months ago, and it didn't sound great. Perhaps I should give it another go...

Just skip the SHD and use the x4800 Dirac and bass management options. The SHD is kind of redundant here.

Do you plan to add more surrounds and ATMOS? If no, sell the Denon and get a cheaper model.

Do you need Dirac? Is Audyssey not sufficient?

You're already capable of using MSO and REW to align subs..

I see no point to having two preamps in a system. I would sell the SHD or repurpose it in another room.

I bought the x4800h because of it's ability to be upgraded to Dirac with Bass Control, as well as it's transparent preamp outputs for the NCx500 amp. However, the SHD dac has a better sinad than the x4800h. That said, if I were to use the WiiM as my dac/streamer, feeding the x4800h via RCA, would that give me the best of both worlds? I seem to remember reading about how most receivers ADC and then DAC input signals - would I end up with the sinad of the x4800h dac?

Excellent equipment . I would suggest a console wider than your tv for aesthetic reasons . The large center balanced on a small stand looks a little off.

Absolutely agreed! I am working on a custom console in my shop

 

[FrantzM]

Thanks for the suggestion - I have tried that, but the bass response is better with this orientation for my room and the imaging from the mains is too /shrug


Interesting. Does Multeq-x include their version of Dirac Bass Control? My google searches haven't turned up a definitive answer. A WiiM Ultra arrived this morning.


This refers to A1-Evo, correct? I made a half-hearted attempt at this a few months ago, and it didn't sound great. Perhaps I should give it another go...




I bought the x4800h because of it's ability to be upgraded to Dirac with Bass Control, as well as it's transparent preamp outputs for the NCx500 amp. However, the SHD dac has a better sinad than the x4800h. That said, if I were to use the WiiM as my dac/streamer, feeding the x4800h via RCA, would that give me the best of both worlds? I seem to remember reading about how most receivers ADC and then DAC input signals - would I end up with the sinad of the x4800h dac?


Absolutely agreed! I am working on a custom console in my shop

Thank you everyone for your responses!

Hi

I use the following:
miniDSP 2 x 4 HD
MSO
To linearize my 2 subwoofers. mono Bass crossed at 80 Hz. I plan to add a 3rd subwoofer. Not because of a need but for a want..

The resulting "subwoofer" (miniDSP + 2 Subwoofers) is presented to Audyssey MultEQ-X and it takes care of the integration between, that "subwoofer" and the rest of the speakers. I like the results, immensely: System is flat to below 20 Hz, 18 Hz actually. measured. Bass is smooth , powerful and extended .. Mind you my subs are the cheap Dayton SUB1500 (about $275). Room is 3.5 x 5 x 2.8 meters (W x L x H). THis has been an education. I understand now that quality bass is (mostly) a matter of integration. Subwoofer are about SPL capabilities within their passband (below 200 Hz) , smoothness. low distortion.. Integration with the mains is the key.. Those notions of "fast" , quickk bass and of smaller, thus faster bass from drivers are false. You don't need to spend a ton of money to have great bass... or great overall sound for that matter ... It is up to you but I would not invest in a Kef sub... I believe the wares from HSU, Rythmik, SVS , to name only these, are better ... for less. This can be , of course, measured...

Audyssey MultEQX is the real deal, I tend to believe it is at least as good as Dirac , perhaps better. The learning curve to obtain great result is steep; but if you got to understand and use MSO, you will have no issue with MultEQ-X. It is also less expensive than Dirac.
I do not have any experience with OCA protocols. I have been wanting to try them but ... keep on putting it off... Satiation, perhaps.

Most humans on this planet will not hear any difference between a system with 100+ dB of SINAD and 80 dB.. Anything above 80 dB of SINAD is for all practical purposes "transparent". I believe the X-4800 is above 80 dB of SINAD. The WiiM Pro plus has 115 dB of SINAD...

The Revel F208 are my next move. I'll add another subwoofer capable of serious output below 20Hz, HSU-VTF-2 Mk5 comes to mind, I'll keep almost everything else...

Yep!


Peace.

 

[voodooless]

However, the SHD dac has a better sinad than the x4800h. That said, if I were to use the WiiM as my dac/streamer, feeding the x4800h via RCA, would that give me the best of both worlds? I seem to remember reading about how most receivers ADC and then DAC input signals - would I end up with the sinad of the x4800h dac?

That better SINAD is irrelevant because you already use the x4800h DAC. Either way, you probably won’t hear the difference. As for the WiiM, I would connect it digitally to the x4800h. Then you only have one DAC in the system.

The resulting "subwoofer" (miniDSP + 2 Subwoofers) is presented to Audyssey MultEQ-X and it takes care of the integration between, that "subwoofer" and the rest of the speakers.

How would that work? You can’t feed back the processed signal back into the AVR. This only works if you use it between streamer and AVR, but then it only works with the streamer, not any other source.

 

[airs]

That better SINAD is irrelevant because you already use the x4800h DAC. Either way, you probably won’t hear the difference. As for the WiiM, I would connect it digitally to the x4800h. Then you only have one DAC in the system.


How would that work? You can’t feed back the processed signal back into the AVR. This only works if you use it between streamer and AVR, but then it only works with the streamer, not any other source.

Currently, for music listening, I do not use the x4800h at all. The SHD handles Dirac, streaming and driving the NCx500.

 

[voodooless]

Currently, for music listening, I do not use the x4800h at all. The SHD handles Dirac, streaming and driving the NCx500.

I get that. But it won’t support DLBC, and we’re talking about @FrantzM ’s proposal vs mine without SHD.

 

[jhaider]

However, the SHD dac has a better sinad than the x4800h.

DGAF. And neither should you. That’s a dumb and completely inaudible reason to add another box and further control headaches.

That said, if I were to use the WiiM as my dac/streamer, feeding the x4800h via RCA, would that give me the best of both worlds?

Worst of all worlds! Just connect the WiiM using toslink or coax. Doesn’t generally matter which. Assuming WiiM is even needed; if you use AirPlay then take it out too.