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Dirac Live Bass Management?

tecnogadget

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I will say that DLBC is incredible for my system. It has worked wonders at removing peaks and valleys in the response. I could always EQ down a peak but never fix a valley on my own...
Could you share with us some REW measurements showing those results? Im still amazed even DLBC has been released a long time ago, there is very few real life info available. Feedback from users, measurements, etc.
 

Flak

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We now have available the new 3.1 update of Dirac Live (for both Windows and Mac) which includes a fix for the Dirac Live Bass Control issue.
Please see the release notes below.
Kindly take into account that it's a release candidate only so it is subject to eventual changes.

Release Notes - Dirac Live - 3.1.0
Fixes
----------
Fix issues related to loading projects
Fix broken snapshot in Dirac Live Bass Control
Fix unmanaged channels in Dirac Live Bass Control

Features
-----------
Add ability to delete device filters from Dirac Live
New Bass Control option: Level 2 (Co-optimize the subwoofers, use a single allpass filter for the redirected bass and individual allpass filters for the full range channels)
Dirac Live Bass Control temporary name changes: Level 1 -> Upmix Only, Level 3 -> Original Bass Control

All fellow forumers who are interested in testing it can contact us from here:
https://confluence.dirac.services/display/DLS/Dirac+Live+Support
Thanks for your time!
Flavio
 

freedomgli

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Still waiting for someone to develop a decent one box stereo component that is a streamer/ preamp/ DAC with DLBC and 4 balanced outputs for stereo speakers and two subwoofers. The NAD C658 I’m currently using is close but it has a marginal DAC, only one pair of balanced outputs, no DLBC and poor headroom to handle inter-sample peaks, which causes harsh distortion on some songs.

Who will be the first to make a product that can replace my C658?
 

Sal1950

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phoenixdogfan

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We now have available the new 3.1 update of Dirac Live (for both Windows and Mac) which includes a fix for the Dirac Live Bass Control issue.
Please see the release notes below.
Kindly take into account that it's a release candidate only so it is subject to eventual changes.

Release Notes - Dirac Live - 3.1.0
Fixes
----------
Fix issues related to loading projects
Fix broken snapshot in Dirac Live Bass Control
Fix unmanaged channels in Dirac Live Bass Control

Features
-----------
Add ability to delete device filters from Dirac Live
New Bass Control option: Level 2 (Co-optimize the subwoofers, use a single allpass filter for the redirected bass and individual allpass filters for the full range channels)
Dirac Live Bass Control temporary name changes: Level 1 -> Upmix Only, Level 3 -> Original Bass Control

All fellow forumers who are interested in testing it can contact us from here:
https://confluence.dirac.services/display/DLS/Dirac+Live+Support
Thanks for your time!
Flavio
Put in my request to be a beta tester and received word from Flavio, it's not yet available for testing b/c they're currently concentrating on perfecting it for the various hardware platforms using or slated to use it. Hopefully, it will be available soon for PC's. Seems like exactly what a number of DL users on this forum would want.
 

dkinric

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Still waiting for someone to develop a decent one box stereo component that is a streamer/ preamp/ DAC with DLBC and 4 balanced outputs for stereo speakers and two subwoofers. The NAD C658 I’m currently using is close but it has a marginal DAC, only one pair of balanced outputs, no DLBC and poor headroom to handle inter-sample peaks, which causes harsh distortion on some songs.

Who will be the first to make a product that can replace my C658?
Lots of us waiting for this at a decent price. MiniDSP SHD comes closest, but not sure if you can get DLBC with it?
 

Dj7675

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Lots of us waiting for this at a decent price. MiniDSP SHD comes closest, but not sure if you can get DLBC with it?
I asked Minidsp a while ago and they said it is possible with the hardware but didn’t give any indication one way or the other if they would do it or not. Right now it doesn’t.
 

dkinric

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Typical MiniDSP. No comment or downright ignore the question unless it's here now. Not a fan of those guys. Still want an SHD.
 

Sal1950

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I asked Minidsp a while ago and they said it is possible with the hardware but didn’t give any indication one way or the other if they would do it or not. Right now it doesn’t.
Hard for a company to state definitively if a piece of software will work with their hardware until they can test the final product. So far it's still at "release candidate" testing stage AFAIK. ;)
 

MickeyBoy

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Still waiting for someone to develop a decent one box stereo component that is a streamer/ preamp/ DAC with DLBC and 4 balanced outputs for stereo speakers and two subwoofers. The NAD C658 I’m currently using is close but it has a marginal DAC, only one pair of balanced outputs, no DLBC and poor headroom to handle inter-sample peaks, which causes harsh distortion on some songs.

Who will be the first to make a product that can replace my C658?
Why stop at stereo speakers? Let's go for 4 or 5 and reap the benefits of multi-channel recordings.
 

freedomgli

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Why stop at stereo speakers? Let's go for 4 or 5 and reap the benefits of multi-channel recordings.
Cost and space and personal preference. While multi-channel music is growing in popularity and there is some great multichannel music on SACD and concert materials on DVD/ BD, the vast majority of the music I enjoy is stereo. I don’t have a SACD player (or DSD collection) and I don’t have a home theater. However, I do enjoy stereo music (and the occasional mono album) on my stereo system in a dedicated listening room.

So buying an AVR or HT preamp processor just for stereo music seems like a waste of money for me. Which is why I’m interested in a better version of a device like my NAD C658 with DLBC, a better DAC, more balanced outputs that can be configured the way I want (like HTP-1). Why not just buy an HTP-1 you might ask? Because I think it’s possible to get better audio-only performance for the same or less money with a dedicated stereo component. I just haven’t found it yet or it’s not made yet or it’s not in my budget. I’d love to play in the realm of Audionet or Lyngdorf but my budget is more in the $2k-$4k range. The C658 is tremendous value at the ~ $1750 (including tax) that I paid for it but I think it will cost more to get better sound. I’m just not ready or able to make the leap to 5 figure devices.
 
Last edited:

freedomgli

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Lots of us waiting for this at a decent price. MiniDSP SHD comes closest, but not sure if you can get DLBC with it?
I looked at miniDSP SHD before buying my C658. Both have pros/ cons. Neither one has all the features and performance I’m looking for. No, the SHD does not have DLBC and miniDSP developers have been even more discouraging and disappointing about DLBC than NAD/ Lenbrook have.
 

ad_fletch

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All fellow forumers who are interested in testing it can contact us from here:
https://confluence.dirac.services/display/DLS/Dirac+Live+Support
Thanks for your time!
Flavio

I have DL standalone on Windows which I trialled last year, but with 2 subs I was hesitant to commit to a full licence, because as far as I can tell from the (confusing) online store options, I’d need the multichannel suite licence just to do 2.1??

Is beta testing of DBLC possible if you’ve already done a stereo trial?
 

Dathzo

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I looked at miniDSP SHD before buying my C658. Both have pros/ cons. Neither one has all the features and performance I’m looking for. No, the SHD does not have DLBC and miniDSP developers have been even more discouraging and disappointing about DLBC than NAD/ Lenbrook have.
@freedomgli, have you considered the Dspeaker X4? It's in the upper end of the budget you mentioned, but an extremely capable unit, great DAC, balanced outputs, and configurable the way you want. It is not dirac, (and hence no DLBC), but due to its flexibility, you can probably achieve similar results. You can set up the high- and low-pass crossovers for a subwoofered system by analysis of distortion from the mains and subs at various possible crossover points and slopes, computing the lowest distortion configuration, which is a pretty unique and awesome feature
 

freedomgli

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@freedomgli, have you considered the Dspeaker X4? It's in the upper end of the budget you mentioned, but an extremely capable unit, great DAC, balanced outputs, and configurable the way you want. It is not dirac, (and hence no DLBC), but due to its flexibility, you can probably achieve similar results. You can set up the high- and low-pass crossovers for a subwoofered system by analysis of distortion from the mains and subs at various possible crossover points and slopes, computing the lowest distortion configuration, which is a pretty unique and awesome feature
I’m not familiar with it but will check it out. What do you mean by distortion? My subs (SVS SB-4000) already have a full standalone suite of DSP capabilities (HPF, LPF, PEQ, etc.) but nothing to help with multi-sub integration.

To be honest I’m most interested in DLBC for the ease of multi-sub optimization and the large user base. I know there are other DSP options that do this (like MSO) but none are as easy as DLBC. And that’s really the point.
 

Dathzo

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I’m not familiar with it but will check it out. What do you mean by distortion? My subs (SVS SB-4000) already have a full standalone suite of DSP capabilities (HPF, LPF, PEQ, etc.) but nothing to help with multi-sub integration.

To be honest I’m most interested in DLBC for the ease of multi-sub optimization and the large user base. I know there are other DSP options that do this (like MSO) but none are as easy as DLBC. And that’s really the point.
Check this thread out started by a fine gentleman about his experience with equalization and lately with the X4: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/dspeaker-anti-mode-x4.26851/

I know what you mean; I’m also looking forward to DLBC and I have not given up on the C658 yet (I know… :( ). I believe one can get a similar sound quality with a minidsp 2x4HD doing the bass management from the preamps of the C658, with some work with REW.

All speakers will produce distortion at a certain level, and especially at the lower frequencies. By choosing a proper HPF in your mains, you can achieve virtually no distortion as they don’t need to play those frequencies. The X4 has that unique feature that will try different crossovers until it finds the one with the lowest distortion in your system. That’s pretty cool to say the least. Yes, you can manually use your SB-4000 to do the signal processing and the crossovers and then measure with REW to check the best crossover…

With DLBC, you will set crossovers in a way to get the best frequency transition with mains and less variability within places, which is great
 

txbdan

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I have DL standalone on Windows which I trialled last year, but with 2 subs I was hesitant to commit to a full licence, because as far as I can tell from the (confusing) online store options, I’d need the multichannel suite licence just to do 2.1??

Is beta testing of DBLC possible if you’ve already done a stereo trial?

No, you only need the 2chan stereo license, but you don't treat the sub as a separate channel. You just measure it along with each speaker and it figures it all out. That's what I do and its working very well.
 

ad_fletch

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No, you only need the 2chan stereo license, but you don't treat the sub as a separate channel. You just measure it along with each speaker and it figures it all out. That's what I do and its working very well.

Thanks, but isn’t that ignoring the benefits of Bass Control for integration?
 

Sal1950

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No, you only need the 2chan stereo license, but you don't treat the sub as a separate channel. You just measure it along with each speaker and it figures it all out. That's what I do and its working very well.
Humm, that doesn't sound right without a DLBC license, but then again I can't swear to it.
I just went thru the DL website, trying to figure out it's class, features, and pricing structures, at times it seems to be designed to confuse. A very interesting piece of software but it's marketing is starting to border on snake-oil. Why can't a 50 year audiophile figure out a simple "what $ buys what" from their site?
Maybe I'm just too old and confused. :facepalm:
I do know that Audyssey XT32 comes free with many Denon/Marantz products and will do 2 channels of subwoofers out of the box. The Editor upgrade will cost you a staggering $20 and allow you to dial in any curve you might want to listen to plus many other switchable or adjustable options.
YMMV on which software you'd rather own.

Amir's review on Audyssey is here,
 
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