Dirac in the 2021 Onkyo AVRs

[Rottmannash]

I wouldn't trust anything this guy says. He seem to like every product he "reviews", even those that scored a SINAD of 80dB by Amir... The RZ-50 has a single channel subwoofer output split into two identical... I would wait for the RZ-70.

I've watched many of his reviews and while I don't always agree w/ his assessment of a product he does seem to mean well and tries to explain what he see/hears and for that I find him tolerable. However, we need measurements of this AVR. Is anyone sending one to Amir for testing? If not I may, if he can get it measured within the return window so if it's a dud I can return it.

 

[Colonel7]

There's a reason certain influencers get first dibs on given products.

 

[Rottmannash]

There's a reason certain influencers get first dibs on given products.

100% agree.

 

[Magnus0322]

I've watched many of his reviews and while I don't always agree w/ his assessment of a product he does seem to mean well and tries to explain what he see/hears and for that I find him tolerable. However, we need measurements of this AVR. Is anyone sending one to Amir for testing? If not I may, if he can get it measured within the return window so if it's a dud I can return it.

Once I get confirmation that my pre order is ready for shipment I plan on messaging Amir to see if anyone else is sending him one. I don't really care about the return window since I plan on keeping it because it's the cheapest way to get Dirac plus my current Onkyo from 2011 still sounds great to me. I'm only upgrading for Dirac and Atmos and HDMI 2.1... that said if the RZ70 has DLBC and Auro3D I'm in. My hope is when RZ70 and 90 get Auro3D that the RZ50 will too

 

[Flak]

There's a reason certain influencers get first dibs on given products.

Not all of his reviews are positive

 

[markus]

Not all of his reviews are positive

Maybe that's why

 

[markus]

There's a reason certain influencers get first dibs on given products.

...and if you don't then trash the product on YouTube. You can make money either way. Subjective "reviews" are just ridiculous, an intellectual affront really, and ultimately a disservice to any enthusiast.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

I just ordered a Denon 3700, hopefully the Onkyo TX-RZ50 is available and can be measured before my return period is up. I have more confidence in Dirac than Audyssey for room correction. I'm told by an online source that the amps are bypassed when pre-outs are used. Can anyone confirm this is the case? Does this model simply not need options to turn off/disconnect amps like Denon/Marantz?

Note: assuming no significant audible difference in the room correction methods, there may still be a usability advantage in Dirac Live vs. the Audyssey iOS app. It seems much easier to customize curves in the DL desktop app. The iOS app for Denon/Marantz curve editing has been a pain to use in my experience.

Audussey is working to give more powerfull tools for users, meaning laptop program / new version completely? Anyway the laptop/pc part was confirmed. However when and for which models this will be implemented is unknown. This information was released on the youtube video at Audioholics with Sound United (D&M) who is behind the Audussey Editor App. There was rumours Denon talking with Dirac for future partnership, but this latest news sounds more like Audussey wanting to close the gap to the likes of Dirac/ARC Genesis and D&M sticking with them.

 

[beren777]

Audussey is working to give more powerfull tools for users, meaning laptop program / new version completely? Anyway the laptop/pc part was confirmed. However when and for which models this will be implemented is unknown. This information was released on the youtube video at Audioholics with Sound United (D&M) who is behind the Audussey Editor App. There was rumours Denon talking with Dirac for future partnership, but this latest news sounds more like Audussey wanting to close the gap to the likes of Dirac/ARC Genesis and D&M sticking with them.

I would be thrilled if D&M would even let you type in your target curve points as an additional option to the touch-drag-pray option they provide currently on iOS/Android. They could easily expose this via a web UI on the AVR itself. Though if they provided a web UI on the AVR for it, click/dragging with a mouse might be pretty simple.

Dirac would be great but as you said, that raises questions of backporting. It seems unlikely they could or would backport Dirac support to earlier AVR versions. It'd be a substantial investment on their part in equipment already released.

 

[Rottmannash]

"touch-drag-pray"...great descriptor.

 

[Ata]

Is the DIRAC room correction on these units limited to 500 Hz as it is on NADs and other existing receivers, or full range?

 

[Newman]

This information was released on the youtube video at Audioholics with Sound United (D&M) who is behind the Audussey Editor App.

Searching YouTube doesn’t show anything recent. Can you link the video please? And who exactly was behind the Aud App?

 

[Ata]

Searching YouTube doesn’t show anything recent. Can you link the video please? And who exactly was behind the Aud App?

You are after this one, I think:

 

[Rottmannash]

Is the DIRAC room correction on these units limited to 500 Hz as it is on NADs and other existing receivers, or full range?

Full range, according to another member on another thread. Here it is.

 

[Ata]

Full range, according to another member on another thread. Here it is.

View attachment 152248

Yes, I asked in a couple of threads to improve chances for an answer by those who may be already in possession of one of these units. I do not recall seeing this in the various spec sources shared to date.

The PC/Mac multichannel Dirac Live at USD499 makes these receivers a great proposition from a pricing point of view!

 

[Magnus0322]

Yes, I asked in a couple of threads to improve chances for an answer by those who may be already in possession of one of these units. I do not recall seeing this in the various spec sources shared to date.

The PC/Mac multichannel Dirac Live at USD499 makes these receivers a great proposition from a pricing point of view!

Yes it's full Dirac and you can use a PC and calibrated mic such as UMIK-1 or Onkyo Controller App + included hockey puck mic to run the Dirac calibration

 

[Ata]

Yes, and as I said this makes the PC/Mac version of Dirac too expensive in comparison. Unless, of course, one or several hold true:

- The AVR implementation has limited IIR/FIR filtering capability compared to the PC/Mac version, leading to somewhat lesser performance;
- The AVR implementation is limited to 44.1/48K sampling rate and the Hires audio is downsampled via a cheap and nasty approach such as sample decimation. I think Audirvana also does not scale with sampling rate, which makes me question how good downsampling pre-RC is on most AVRs;
- Other things I cannot think of...

Of course, the AVR advantage is that all the channels get room corrected, not just the 8 that the PC/Mac version supports, and ATMOS movies and music are processed for all channels including ceiling.

 

[beren777]

Yes, and as I said this makes the PC/Mac version of Dirac too expensive in comparison. Unless, of course, one or several hold true:

- The AVR implementation has limited IIR/FIR filtering capability compared to the PC/Mac version, leading to somewhat lesser performance;
- The AVR implementation is limited to 44.1/48K sampling rate and the Hires audio is downsampled via a cheap and nasty approach such as sample decimation. I think Audirvana also does not scale with sampling rate, which makes me question how good downsampling pre-RC is on most AVRs;
- Other things I cannot think of...

Of course, the AVR advantage is that all the channels get room corrected, not just the 8 that the PC/Mac version supports, and ATMOS movies and music are processed for all channels including ceiling.

Keep in mind that Dirac is likely getting a licensing fee from Onkyo that was negotiated on an expected volume of sales. Plus Dirac gets their product into a more mainstream segment (~$1500 AVRs instead of ~$4000+ AVRs), meaning more exposure/publicity for them and more real-world feedback.

 

[tecnogadget]

Keep in mind that Dirac is likely getting a licensing fee from Onkyo that was negotiated on an expected volume of sales. Plus Dirac gets their product into a more mainstream segment (~$1500 AVRs instead of ~$4000+ AVRs), meaning more exposure/publicity for them and more real-world feedback.

Yes, this is a good thing for everybody. I'm currently going the HTPC and better DSP correction than Dirac route. But maybe in the years to come (could be the second generation of this Onkyo+Dirac partnership) I'll consider getting a low cost AVR that measures well like the X3700H just to be able to play Atmos with correction (Dirac) on all speakers.

 

[wireburn]

I was able to get one of the first Integra 3.4 from AV Science preorder. So far the only complaints I have are that there are no level control sliders on the volume calibration page in the PC software. The Dirac support team claims this is an issue with the way the AVR is reporting the max/min trims and will need to be fixed with a firmware flash at the AVR. The calibration can continue without it, however, and sounds great to my ears.

I tried to calibrate with the app, but it was tricky getting the sub output to a level where the app wouldn't complain about too high level and still make enough sound so it wouldn't complain about level too low! I must have tried 20 times before it would accept the sub trim I set at the amplifier.

Otherwise very happy with my purchase!