DIRAC AND ROOM TREATMENT

[Georgeadv]

It's hard to tell the ceiling height here. I would pull the sectional out 5-8" away from the wall and place broadband panels (probably at least 3.5' height, 4+" depth, but the deeper the better) absorption behind the seating, I would add more broadband absorption below the monitor, as well taller ones to the sides of the monitor. I might look at inexpensive diffusion elements (like the Vicoustic Multifuser DC2 above the monitor in front and to the sides of the minisplit HVAC on the rear wall), as well as movable reflective 2x4' panels to "close off" the listening space on the side with the house plant for critical listening. If you have access to products like Modex Broadband behind the central listening position, that would be preferable.

My ceiling height is 2.8 meters.

RPG acoustic products look interesting however there is not pricing in their site and if they ship to individuals. Do you have any info?

regardless I agree with GDK. I need to first take some measurement.

 

[Hipper]

many thanks for your elaborate advice!

So what you suggest is:
1) get dirac and do measurements and adjust the response of the speakers
2)get treatment for the left window ( i guess the thick back curtain is not enough?)
3) place acoustic treatment on the back wall
4) get a sub with dsp

wouldnt it be more helpful to treat the corners of the back wall or the front corner instead of the straight walls?

many thanks again

GIK advised me to get 4 corner bass traps and 3 absorbers/diffusers (150mm) all for the back wall

See my post 60 here to see what (a lot of) room treatment and EQ can do:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...in-room-measurements.13540/page-3#post-411614

And here I show what adding one bass trap in each the front corners can do:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-top-of-corner-subwoofers.21357/#post-709137

Whilst I used Soffit Traps, you can compare the measurements of them and Tri-Traps on their site. It's definitely the case of the more the better as far as I'm concerned but the room looks more industrial the more you add.

I bought stuff from GIK some years ago and since then they have developed new products which I've not used. I used Soffit Bass Traps and absorbent panels like 242s and 244s. I did try their quadratic diffusors but found my room wasn't big enough for them to work properly. I could hear them and it seems they need about six feet of distance to work properly. Their new products may work better in small rooms - I'd question them on this point.

GIK are a good company and an honest one. They have a forum here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=183.0

RealTraps are another good company I think although I've not dealt with them:

http://realtraps.com/

There is lots of useful information on both sites. Check out for instance this video on diffusion:

I've no experience of using subs but others have and say they're effective in managing bass.

Going the DSP route to start with seems to me the best plan because you will need DSP in all cases, and you may find your are completely satisfied with what it does without using room treatment and/or subs.

 

[Georgeadv]

See my post 60 here to see what (a lot of) room treatment and EQ can do:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...in-room-measurements.13540/page-3#post-411614

And here I show what adding one bass trap in each the front corners can do:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-top-of-corner-subwoofers.21357/#post-709137

Whilst I used Soffit Traps, you can compare the measurements of them and Tri-Traps on their site. It's definitely the case of the more the better as far as I'm concerned but the room looks more industrial the more you add.

I bought stuff from GIK some years ago and since then they have developed new products which I've not used. I used Soffit Bass Traps and absorbent panels like 242s and 244s. I did try their quadratic diffusors but found my room wasn't big enough for them to work properly. I could hear them and it seems they need about six feet of distance to work properly. Their new products may work better in small rooms - I'd question them on this point.

GIK are a good company and an honest one. They have a forum here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=183.0

RealTraps are another good company I think although I've not dealt with them:

http://realtraps.com/

There is lots of useful information on both sites. Check out for instance this video on diffusion:

I've no experience of using subs but others have and say they're effective in managing bass.

Going the DSP route to start with seems to me the best plan because you will need DSP in all cases, and you may find your are completely satisfied with what it does without using room treatment and/or subs.

Hey Hipper,
Many thanks again.

your graphs and findings are very helpful and interesting.
They indicate that adequate anounts of bass absorption yields great results.
If this is generally true why many people suggest that treating your room first is not a good idea and why many suggest that room treatment may end up being disastrous?

 

[caught gesture]

Hey Hipper,
Many thanks again.

your graphs and findings are very helpful and interesting.
They indicate that adequate anounts of bass absorption yields great results.
If this is generally true why many people suggest that treating your room first is not a good idea and why many suggest that room treatment may end up being disastrous?

Measuring your room first is a good thing to do. It gives you a baseline from which you can judge any changes that you make and whether or not they have a positive impact. Whilst it may be true that over-deadening a room with absorption might make the listening experience worse, I would disagree strongly with the idea that some room treatment would ever be a bad idea. If you have basic diy skills, you can make yourself panels for the reflection points at very little expense. There are plenty of tutorials online.

 

[Georgeadv]

Measuring your room first is a good thing to do. It gives you a baseline from which you can judge any changes that you make and whether or not they have a positive impact. Whilst it may be true that over-deadening a room with absorption might make the listening experience worse, I would disagree strongly with the idea that some room treatment would ever be a bad idea. If you have basic diy skills, you can make yourself panels for the reflection points at very little expense. There are plenty of tutorials online.

I agree with you.
I would prefer not to go the DYI route to be honest.. I would like something precise and not very intrusive.

 

[Georgeadv]

Btw guys, GIK reverted with their shipping fee which is ridiculous...

Firstly although am based in EU they wont ship to me from EU but from the UK and therefore am subject to duties etc...

Airfreight price is prohibitive.. over 1k pounds for 4 tri traps and one alpha absorber..

With shipping they wont deliver to my house or even local post... their service would stop at the port and I would to pay for someone to do the customs work and delivery... regardless the fee would be 1/3 the price of the goods....

really disappointed and their service was very slow and unenthusiastic to say the least...

anyway I have a local store selling vicoustic. Its more expensive than GIK but in the end it would be a bargain considering the shipping pf GIK...

 

[abdo123]

Btw guys, GIK reverted with their shipping fee which is ridiculous...

Firstly although am based in EU they wont ship to me from EU but from the UK and therefore am subject to duties etc...

Airfreight price is prohibitive.. over 1k pounds for 4 tri traps and one alpha absorber..

With shipping they wont deliver to my house or even local post... their service would stop at the port and I would to pay for someone to do the customs work and delivery... regardless the fee would be 1/3 the price of the goods....

really disappointed and their service was very slow and unenthusiastic to say the least...

anyway I have a local store selling vicoustic. Its more expensive than GIK but in the end it would be a bargain considering the shipping pf GIK...

I really recommend that you hire an acoustician before you spend money on anything.

Not a sales person but actual acousticians that actually set up Venues, live performances and stuff.

Room treatments can be a very quick and costly way to fuck up the sound in your room.

 

[Georgeadv]

I really recommend that you hire an acoustician before you spend money on anything.

Not a sales person but actual acousticians that actually set up Venues, live performances and stuff.

Room treatments can be a very quick and costly way to fuck up the sound in your room.

That would cost me a lot... and not sure if anyone here would bother measuring a small room...

In any case the treatment am planning to install would be very minor.. probably the corners and back wall

 

[Hipper]

Btw guys, GIK reverted with their shipping fee which is ridiculous...

Firstly although am based in EU they wont ship to me from EU but from the UK and therefore am subject to duties etc...

Airfreight price is prohibitive.. over 1k pounds for 4 tri traps and one alpha absorber..

With shipping they wont deliver to my house or even local post... their service would stop at the port and I would to pay for someone to do the customs work and delivery... regardless the fee would be 1/3 the price of the goods....

really disappointed and their service was very slow and unenthusiastic to say the least...

anyway I have a local store selling vicoustic. Its more expensive than GIK but in the end it would be a bargain considering the shipping pf GIK...

Of course this is due to Brexit (Britain leaving the EU). I would think such problems will be solved to some extent in time. If GIK have a big enough market in the EU they may consider putting a warehouse there. You could ask them if they have plans like that.

Are there not EU based room treatment suppliers, say in Germany or France?

 

[Georgeadv]

They do have (and promote it) put for some reason they do not ship from EU to my country which is also in EU...

 

[Georgeadv]

Microphone arrived!
Do i have to connect my integrated amp to the pc or can this be done wirelessly?

 

[Eetu]

Microphone arrived!
Do i have to connect my integrated amp to the pc or can this be done wirelessly?

Nice! I've always connected via USB. It's also possible to save test tones from REW and then playback them as files via streamer etc. but not that practical for sweeps.

Feel free to share some measurements if you need some advice interpreting them

 

[Georgeadv]

Nice! I've always connected via USB. It's also possible to save test tones from REW and then playback them as files via streamer etc. but not that practical for sweeps.

Feel free to share some measurements if you need some advice interpreting them

Sure! Can it be done wirelessly though? I dont have usb cable t connect the amp

 

[Eetu]

Sure! Can it be done wirelessly though? I dont have usb cable t connect the amp

I don't think so. If there's a way someone can correct me. The only way I know works without wired connection is saving the sweep or pink noise test file as .wav and then playing it back as a 'local file' through a streamer while REW is recording.

 

[Georgeadv]

I don't think so. If there's a way someone can correct me. The only way I know works without wired connection is saving the sweep or pink noise test file as .wav and then playing it back as a 'local file' through a streamer while REW is recording.

Was referring to dirac sorry

 

[Eetu]

Was referring to dirac sorry

Sry can't help you there. Maybe somebody using Dirac can chime in.

 

[jerome]

Hi,
follow the link in my post #3.
Register and download the trial DiracDLP for stereo.

Then download Dirac Live (you will do the measurements in Dirac Live) for Mac here: https://live.dirac.com/download/

Connect the mic using USB to Mac, connect Mac using USB to Hegel.

I am a Win10 standalone DLP user, so not quite sure how to proceed from here onward.

Probably you will need to run Audirvana and install the Dirac plugin.

Then start Dirac Live and follow the measurement wizard steps.

If you encounter some issues, the best way to get some support is to open a ticket here: https://confluence.dirac.services/display/DLS/Dirac+Live+Support

Best,

 

[jim33]

Stand in your listening space and clap your hand. Very lo-spec way to hear reflections. If the sound pings all over the place imagine what that is doing to your music. In a space that has a hard front and back wall some absorbing panels will help the sound become more focused. The speakers may not provide a rock hard centre image in any space. I don't know those speakers but some are designed to provide a wider sound field. Measurements are fun and will help you pin point low freq issues easily.

 

[Georgeadv]

Hi,
follow the link in my post #3.
Register and download the trial DiracDLP for stereo.

Then download Dirac Live (you will do the measurements in Dirac Live) for Mac here: https://live.dirac.com/download/

Connect the mic using USB to Mac, connect Mac using USB to Hegel.

I am a Win10 standalone DLP user, so not quite sure how to proceed from here onward.

Probably you will need to run Audirvana and install the Dirac plugin.

Then start Dirac Live and follow the measurement wizard steps.

If you encounter some issues, the best way to get some support is to open a ticket here: https://confluence.dirac.services/display/DLS/Dirac+Live+Support

Best,

No way to go wireless to hegel?

 

[jerome]

No way to go wireless to hegel?

Hi,
I am just guessing, but if you are able to stream the output of Audirvana to Hegel over the network/wirelessly, you should be able to do the Dirac Live measurement the same way (Audirvana with enabled Dirac plugin should be running while you launch Dirac Live, so you should be able to select it as a device in Dirac Live).