DIRAC AND ROOM TREATMENT

[Hipper]

Getting the sound in any room right is a challenge and requires a fair amount of understanding of why the problems exist and therefore how to solve them. In a domestic setting, not a dedicated listening room, compromises will have to be made.

The ideal basics are:

1. Positioning - of speakers and listening position (LP)
2. Room treatment - bass traps etc..
3. Digital Signal Processing (DSP)/Equalisers (EQ).
4. Using subwoofer(s).

Use any or all of these dependent on what you can do.

Use measuring tools (such as Room EQ Wizard (REW)) to test what you are achieving.

The number one problem area is bass and that is the most difficult to deal with but it should be done first. Control of bass will open up the other frequencies and these can then be tinkered with. Bass traps need to be big to be effective so will therefore be intrusive. Careful use of subwoofers may work. DSP/EQ is definitely useful.

Most guidelines assume a symmetric room which yours isn't and that will make things a bit harder for you.

In the end it depends how much effort and money you are prepared to put into this project and what compromises you are willing to make. For instance, to make your sound more symmetrical, you could put the speakers along the window wall. However it will mean the TV should be on a stand and it would be hard to accommodate the sofas and have good window view and access.

For you, trying to control bass, positioning and room treatment look impractical, DSP/EQ and perhaps subwoofers would be useful. Using Dirac is probably as easy as it can be (it won't be easy though!). You may be able to make compromises in speaker positioning using Dirac (e.g. closer to the wall and alter Dirac to accommodate this).

A couple of points from your photo. Firstly that coffee table may reflect the higher frequencies to your ears and muddy the sound. Test this by removing it and listening. Secondly, with your open side on the right you will get reflections from the left but not the right, unbalancing things. The way to correct this might be to have some absorbent panel on the left side by the window. This could be on feet so stored somewhere else when not in use. Panels can also be decorative so less intrusive. Have a look on the GIK site to see what they do with decorative panels.

 

[Snarfie]

Would sugest try mathaudio room eq completely for free with foobar2000 the setup is way more easy than REW. Results are compareble with dirac an other solutions.

 

[Georgeadv]

This was what I was referring to with 'headroom for room correction'. If you place the speakers, say 10cm from the front wall you get boomy bass but you can also use this to your advantage. Once you let REW/Dirac handle the bass peaks above your target curve, you benefit from a few dBs of 'free' headroom and bass extension. When you get Dirac, you can try whether this method or your current placement works best.

Re: the left speaker, I meant the first reflection point. Check this video how to find it. Since you have a strong L side wall reflection and 'missing' R reflection this should help balance the soundstage.

In any case, if I could treat only one spot I would add absorption panels behind the listening position. Since the wall is so close behind (even at 50cm) to me it seems to be the most harmful.

Thanks. I will give it a go and let you know.

i will try the software, post the resutls and then I can go with absorption panels on the back.

would it be better to treat the corners of the back wall or just the flat side?

 

[Georgeadv]

Getting the sound in any room right is a challenge and requires a fair amount of understanding of why the problems exist and therefore how to solve them. In a domestic setting, not a dedicated listening room, compromises will have to be made.

The ideal basics are:

1. Positioning - of speakers and listening position (LP)
2. Room treatment - bass traps etc..
3. Digital Signal Processing (DSP)/Equalisers (EQ).
4. Using subwoofer(s).

Use any or all of these dependent on what you can do.

Use measuring tools (such as Room EQ Wizard (REW)) to test what you are achieving.

The number one problem area is bass and that is the most difficult to deal with but it should be done first. Control of bass will open up the other frequencies and these can then be tinkered with. Bass traps need to be big to be effective so will therefore be intrusive. Careful use of subwoofers may work. DSP/EQ is definitely useful.

Most guidelines assume a symmetric room which yours isn't and that will make things a bit harder for you.

In the end it depends how much effort and money you are prepared to put into this project and what compromises you are willing to make. For instance, to make your sound more symmetrical, you could put the speakers along the window wall. However it will mean the TV should be on a stand and it would be hard to accommodate the sofas and have good window view and access.

For you, trying to control bass, positioning and room treatment look impractical, DSP/EQ and perhaps subwoofers would be useful. Using Dirac is probably as easy as it can be (it won't be easy though!). You may be able to make compromises in speaker positioning using Dirac (e.g. closer to the wall and alter Dirac to accommodate this).

A couple of points from your photo. Firstly that coffee table may reflect the higher frequencies to your ears and muddy the sound. Test this by removing it and listening. Secondly, with your open side on the right you will get reflections from the left but not the right, unbalancing things. The way to correct this might be to have some absorbent panel on the left side by the window. This could be on feet so stored somewhere else when not in use. Panels can also be decorative so less intrusive. Have a look on the GIK site to see what they do with decorative panels.

many thanks for your elaborate advice!

So what you suggest is:
1) get dirac and do measurements and adjust the response of the speakers
2)get treatment for the left window ( i guess the thick back curtain is not enough?)
3) place acoustic treatment on the back wall
4) get a sub with dsp

wouldnt it be more helpful to treat the corners of the back wall or the front corner instead of the straight walls?

many thanks again

 

[Georgeadv]

Would sugest try mathaudio room eq completely for free with foobar2000 the setup is way more easy than REW. Results are compareble with dirac an other solutions.

Thank you for the suggestion but i dont have access to a windows laptop :S

 

[Eetu]

would it be better to treat the corners of the back wall or just the flat side?

Mainly the first reflection points, where direct sound from the speakers hit the back wall and reflect back towards the back of your head. So in practice ~ the center area of the back wall

 

[Georgeadv]

Getting the sound in any room right is a challenge and requires a fair amount of understanding of why the problems exist and therefore how to solve them. In a domestic setting, not a dedicated listening room, compromises will have to be made.

The ideal basics are:

1. Positioning - of speakers and listening position (LP)
2. Room treatment - bass traps etc..
3. Digital Signal Processing (DSP)/Equalisers (EQ).
4. Using subwoofer(s).

Use any or all of these dependent on what you can do.

Use measuring tools (such as Room EQ Wizard (REW)) to test what you are achieving.

The number one problem area is bass and that is the most difficult to deal with but it should be done first. Control of bass will open up the other frequencies and these can then be tinkered with. Bass traps need to be big to be effective so will therefore be intrusive. Careful use of subwoofers may work. DSP/EQ is definitely useful.

Most guidelines assume a symmetric room which yours isn't and that will make things a bit harder for you.

In the end it depends how much effort and money you are prepared to put into this project and what compromises you are willing to make. For instance, to make your sound more symmetrical, you could put the speakers along the window wall. However it will mean the TV should be on a stand and it would be hard to accommodate the sofas and have good window view and access.

For you, trying to control bass, positioning and room treatment look impractical, DSP/EQ and perhaps subwoofers would be useful. Using Dirac is probably as easy as it can be (it won't be easy though!). You may be able to make compromises in speaker positioning using Dirac (e.g. closer to the wall and alter Dirac to accommodate this).

A couple of points from your photo. Firstly that coffee table may reflect the higher frequencies to your ears and muddy the sound. Test this by removing it and listening. Secondly, with your open side on the right you will get reflections from the left but not the right, unbalancing things. The way to correct this might be to have some absorbent panel on the left side by the window. This could be on feet so stored somewhere else when not in use. Panels can also be decorative so less intrusive. Have a look on the GIK site to see what they do with decorative panels.

GIK advised me to get 4 corner bass traps and 3 absorbers/diffusers (150mm) all for the back wall

 

[Snarfie]

Thank you for the suggestion but i dont have access to a windows laptop :
A Mac will do to https://mathaudio.com/download.htm

 

[Georgeadv]

I will give it a try as well. Thank for advice

 

[caught gesture]

if i keep them closer the soundstage is reduced and i dont prefer that :S it feels small
If a toe in a lot its better in terms of definition but it harsh sounding..

the wall or would it be better to treat the corners of the back wall first?

You will have to compromise somewhere due to the constraints of your room. You cannot escape physics! Your sofa absorbs but other than that you have nothing to either absorb or diffuse. Treating your room; bass traps in corners, first reflection points, back wall reflections, ceiling and floor reflections, would all need to be dealt with. You might not appreciate the aesthetics of your lounge space once all the panels and bass traps have been put in place. I’d say your best course of action would be to acoustically measure your room and implement some software eq. I’d do this with the speakers in different positions. It will take some time but worth the effort. You can also put your room dimensions into the software that various companies offer who sell acoustic treatments and see what they recommend.

Edit: I am just repeating what others have recommended. You have been given some solid advice. Good luck!

 

[Descartes]

GIK advised me to get 4 corner bass traps and 3 absorbers/diffusers (150mm) all for the back wall

Yes they push their products like crazy! Way too many in my humble opinion!

Your room could use so absorbers but there are much cheaper solutions than GIK!

 

[Balle Clorin]

Place the speaker where the curtains are and listen without the head close to a wall .

 

[Georgeadv]

You will have to compromise somewhere due to the constraints of your room. You cannot escape physics! Your sofa absorbs but other than that you have nothing to either absorb or diffuse. Treating your room; bass traps in corners, first reflection points, back wall reflections, ceiling and floor reflections, would all need to be dealt with. You might not appreciate the aesthetics of your lounge space once all the panels and bass traps have been put in place. I’d say your best course of action would be to acoustically measure your room and implement some software eq. I’d do this with the speakers in different positions. It will take some time but worth the effort. You can also put your room dimensions into the software that various companies offer who sell acoustic treatments and see what they recommend.

Edit: I am just repeating what others have recommended. You have been given some solid advice. Good luck!

Thank you for your advice and indeed all here have been really helpful and eye opening.

some suggested that treating all those areas would have a negative impact in the end.

 

[Georgeadv]

Yes they push their products like crazy! Way too many in my humble opinion!

Your room could use so absorbers but there are much cheaper solutions than GIK!

Like what brands?

 

[Georgeadv]

Place the speaker where the curtains are and listen without the head close to a wall .

I can do that however, I would need to relocate the speakers each time when i watch tv

 

[Daverz]

Like what brands?

Atasacoustics Atsacoustics makes very affordable acoustic panels.

https://www.atsacoustics.com/

 

[youngho]

View attachment 121776

It's hard to tell the ceiling height here. I would pull the sectional out 5-8" away from the wall and place broadband panels (probably at least 3.5' height, 4+" depth, but the deeper the better) absorption behind the seating, I would add more broadband absorption below the monitor, as well taller ones to the sides of the monitor. I might look at inexpensive diffusion elements (like the Vicoustic Multifuser DC2 above the monitor in front and to the sides of the minisplit HVAC on the rear wall), as well as movable reflective 2x4' panels to "close off" the listening space on the side with the house plant for critical listening. If you have access to products like Modex Broadband behind the central listening position, that would be preferable.

 

[GDK]

All this talk about room treatments is, in my opinion, premature at this stage. If you have already ordered a measurement microphone, wait for it to arrive and see what you can do with REW first. That might be able to deal with your bass issues without the need for intrusive bass absorbers and diffusion panels. Even if it doesn’t, I would look to Dirac before I started adding things to my room, but perhaps that’s just me.

 

[Descartes]

All this talk about room treatments is, in my opinion, premature at this stage. If you have already ordered a measurement microphone, wait for it to arrive and see what you can do with REW first. That might be able to deal with your bass issues without the need for intrusive bass absorbers and diffusion panels. Even if it doesn’t, I would look to Dirac before I started adding things to my room, but perhaps that’s just me.

Equalization alone might not solve all his problems, and I agree it is better to measure first and then see if EQ can take care of the problems

 

[GDK]

Equalization alone might not solve all his problems, and I agree it is better to measure first and then see if EQ can take care of the problems

Yes, it may not, but without measurements you are shooting in the dark with everything else that you do.