Digital Volume Infinite Encoders slow and need many rotations. Why is that?

[KSTR]

For one, it’s very unnatural feeling. I really don’t like encoders that way. Secondly, with only 12 pulses per revolution, there isn’t much to work with. You’ll need more angular resolution to make this work halfway decent.

I'm 100% confident it can be made to work smoothly with a natural feel. Low pulse count per rev makes it harder, though.
As mentioned, it needs clever programming and a lot of testing. I think a small learning curve the user may have to go through is acceptable.

For example, for any volume control an important feature is that the volume can be lowered very quickly when something happens to be shockingly loud. For this one would choose a more aggressive acceleration for fast counter-clockwise rotation. Also, a slightly ballistic behavior is always required, you don't want to change the gain factor too nervously (again except for emergency moves, maybe). And the acceleration must be continuous, not just switching gain factors at certain thresholds. When the actual gain steps are discrete (like 1dB) that means odd/fractional acceleration values must be created by dithering. Things like that make the difference.

 

[Mnyb]

I’m only familiar with industrial speed encoders and absolute encoders , I use them in our projects not writing any low level code coding more advanced than plc and industrial controllers are not my skill set . Or settings parameters in ready made devices .

These cheap one do they even have two tracks 90 degrees offset ( for direction ) with a clear square wave pattern?

The simple trick is then to count the up and down flanks of the square wave then you have 4 times the resolution rigth there given a two track encoder ?

I sort of get the ballistic idea cool

 

[restorer-john]

Just buy an Alps RK-27 analogue pot and be done with it. Does everything you want, will last for 30 years, doesn't need a micro to run it.

As @staticV3 said, it's the quality of the programming (or lack thereof). Most encoder based volumes are terrible. Some are excellent. Pity they are often on gear you don't want.

 

[Haskil]

So today i measured my Dsp Volume Knob.

I takes 19….. in words Nineteen Rotations to go from absolute silence to maximum output.

Is it technically not possible to have a good Finite encoder where you can regulate volume in 1 rotation like it always was possible until
it became digital ?

I have an old Tact 2.2X digital correction preamp: the speed with which its volume setting goes from minimum to maximum is adjustable...
I have always wondered if the accusations of sluggishness of AV amplifiers did not come from the fact that we did not feel the direct relationship between the action of the hand on the potentiometer with the increase in volume... (a little as with the steering wheel of cars with overly assisted and purely electric steering...)

 

[voodooless]

Just buy an Alps RK-27 analogue pot and be done with it. Does everything you want, will last for 30 years, doesn't need a micro to run it.

Except you’ll be 2 channels short for the Flex.

 

[restorer-john]

Except you’ll be 2 channels short for the Flex.

Alps make 2, 4, 6 and even 8 gang if you want them.

 

[DrSpan]

How much of that volume range do you use on a regular basis anyway? I've had two integrated amps where I don't think I ever actually turned the volume control by more than five degrees, that range being from too quiet to too loud, and spent a lot of time trying to get the volume right.

Around 1/2 oft the rotation of my Spl 2Control covered 99% of my needs.
"and spent a lot of time trying to get the volume right.“ this was never an issue for me tbh. My relationship with the Spl was „immediate though translation“ as in
as soon as i thought what i want it was done „setting the volume“ wise. And i have to adjust the volume anything between a few dozen to more than hundred times a session

 

[DrSpan]

Lack of even grasping the problem?

Seeing the reactions by others i realized that it is a niche or at least a minority of users issue. I see that when i mention it people dont seem to even understand why
i don`t like it. The answer is always „so much better than analog“ or „use the remote“ and things like that as if i am saying that it is not possible to regulate volume as it is.
So after a point there is no…. point to explain.

From the people participating i don`t know how many find it as bad as i do, so i guess one salmon can only do so much

 

[DrSpan]

Time to buy a different volume control ?

Feel free to suggest some that solve the issue

 

[DrSpan]

Alps make 2, 4, 6 and even 8 gang if you want them.

View attachment 351880

I was about to pull the trigger on the Spl Volume 8 .
I then read the review by Amir here on the site and let it be. Too much channel discrepancies and other oddities.

The Alps and all Diy solutions are nice but i am not skilled enough to make it into a functioning device and have no means of even measuring what i`ve done if i did build one.

I can`t be spending energy worrying that my equipment might be fooling my ears. Prefer tested solutions and will happily pay for them.

 

[DrSpan]

I have an old Tact 2.2X digital correction preamp: the speed with which its volume setting goes from minimum to maximum is adjustable...
I have always wondered if the accusations of sluggishness of AV amplifiers did not come from the fact that we did not feel the direct relationship between the action of the hand on the potentiometer with the increase in volume... (a little as with the steering wheel of cars with overly assisted and purely electric steering...)

Exactly. It would be great if this was adjustable. Same as on an Electric steering you could then choose „rally“ like steering that takes less rotations to steer in exchange for more dexterity and experience

 

[solderdude]

Feel free to suggest some that solve the issue

I would use what @restorer-john suggested. An ALPS RK27 potmeter.
I have several in use and they are over 30 years old and still work the way they did when new.

Of course, when it needs an encoder for a device to work than it is not an option.

 

[Galliardist]

Seeing the reactions by others i realized that it is a niche or at least a minority of users issue. I see that when i mention it people dont seem to even understand why
i don`t like it. The answer is always „so much better than analog“ or „use the remote“ and things like that as if i am saying that it is not possible to regulate volume as it is.
So after a point there is no…. point to explain.

From the people participating i don`t know how many find it as bad as i do, so i guess one salmon can only do so much

If it's a problem for you, it's a problem. I'm not sure what to advise though.

And i have to adjust the volume anything between a few dozen to more than hundred times a session

That seems extreme to me. I touch the volume control very rarely. Have you always felt that need? I can't imagine the circumstances that require that many changes.

 

[MCH]

Of course, when it needs an encoder for a device to work than it is not an option.

Can't an analog encoder be the input to an ADC? This is how the controls of my sub work, volume included. Single turn and quite a few steps (not as many as OP wants but I guess more is doable)

 

[DrSpan]

I would use what @restorer-john suggested. An ALPS RK27 potmeter.
I have several in use and they are over 30 years old and still work the way they did when new.

Of course, when it needs an encoder for a device to work than it is not an option.

I am not doubting that it works.
I am very much doubting however that in comparison to you (judging by your user name) , i dont have the skills to build my own electronics

 

[DrSpan]

If it's a problem for you, it's a problem. I'm not sure what to advise though.

That seems extreme to me. I touch the volume control very rarely. Have you always felt that need? I can't imagine the circumstances that require that many changes.

" I can't imagine the circumstances that require that many changes.“ …….mixing music. making music . These things.
Not „lay back and enjoy music“ if that makes sense

"Have you always felt that need?“ Sounds a bit like a psychologist in the movies .
Jokes aside, Not until i started mixing and making music

 

[Mnyb]

Re encoder quality , these things breaks i've changed two in my MeridianG98DH processor , and I tend to use the remote ... just saying

 

[DrSpan]

Just buy an Alps RK-27 analogue pot and be done with it. Does everything you want, will last for 30 years, doesn't need a micro to run it.

As @staticV3 said, it's the quality of the programming (or lack thereof). Most encoder based volumes are terrible. Some are excellent. Pity they are often on gear you don't want.

"Pity they are often on gear you don't want.“ I know what you mean but in this case i have seldomly have had devices in my life i liked as much as the Flex. It is amazing imho.
Thats the problem. If it was „i don`t want“ gear it would be gone looooong time

Only its Encoder is ….. well as most digital encoders. A weird place to be if you appreciate haptical feedback which many seem to not care about.
So i totally get it when someone does not understand what i mean (talking in general)

 

[Galliardist]

"Have you always felt that need?“ Sounds a bit like a psychologist in the movies .

It does, rather, doesn't it? I saw you talked about mixing earlier but didn't pick up on it.

 

[solderdude]

Passive RCA preamplifier / Analog volume control ALPS RK27 - Audiophonics

Analog volume controller with rotary potentiometer. Stereo RCA connectors. Very compact aluminum housing.

www.audiophonics.fr

Or is stereo RCA not what you need ?
It is 50k though and would prefer a 10k myself.