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Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

peng

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Still, the in Onkyo the PCM 1690 scores 98 dB SINAD on one channel and 9700 on the other where it can only reach 94 according to spec’s. And there is only one of them in the Onkyo’s and Pioneers (7100, 305, 505) so all 8 channels used… They even use the 5101 DAC’s for the 9th and 10th channel for extra zone’s. Anyway if you look to the inner of these machines, you can see no separate DAC board. No one is complaining about it…whereas Denon/Marantz is being hammered. Of course you always want the best components available but I think they did a good job and dealt with the AKM situation in an acceptable way. And again; this forum is ‘famous’ for basing scores on ‘hard‘ figures and less on ‘sound’. And of course, maybe the 3700 and 4700 with PCM DAC’s could ‘over-score’ as well. You still remember the alternative measures and performance of the 1690 and 5100 DAC’s in the Denon 800… From sound and engineering perspective the Denon’s look waaay better than Onkyo’s and Pioneer’s .

I see your point. To compare such "scores", it is better to use the results fron the same lab, preferably done by the same person. If not, then expect to see minor differences, +/- a few dB is quite possible and there is nothing wrong with that too.

Also, parts are subject to tolerances, so if spec says 93 dB, individual part could be 96 dB, but could also be 90 dB (just an example).

Personally I never complained about them using the 5102A as such but I know some did. I just don't like them not telling people soon enough. I was disappointed, but not enough to actually complain about it. In principle, audible or not, we shouldn't go backward when choosing a dac chip. They all know that too obviously, as they all use dacs that have much better specs on their top models, same for Onkyo, Anthem, Yamaha etc., instead of using the likes of the PCM5102A, knowing that most users can't tell the difference anyway.

If the X4800H had Dirac ready now, I would have hard time moving on and going with Anthem's, despite the less desirable dac chip being used.

They could have kept more people happier though, by using something like the ES9010K2M, that Anthem uses for their AVRs that previously had the Ak4458 as well.
 
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Kheflw33

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I just ordered the X4700H, and the KEF R3s, will be paired with two subs.
I want to have the R3s with subs as a 2.1 stereo for most music, I know that's not difficult, but is there a way to have the hdmi output to the tv on also, (no sound)?

In thinking about it, is there a separate zone with HDMI?

Appreciate this group, lots of people way smarter than me.

Looking forward to getting this set up.
 

amper42

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I just ordered the X4700H, and the KEF R3s, will be paired with two subs.
I want to have the R3s with subs as a 2.1 stereo for most music, I know that's not difficult, but is there a way to have the hdmi output to the tv on also, (no sound)?

In thinking about it, is there a separate zone with HDMI?

Appreciate this group, lots of people way smarter than me.

Looking forward to getting this set up.

Congrats on the new setup. It's easy to get started.
1. Connect the R3 to Front banana plugs.
2. Connect the Sub(s) to the Sub pre-out.
3. Connect TV to HDMI eArc
4. If you have a second TV you want to use - connect the monitor HDMI port to feed it.
5. Run Audyssey to complete the setup. Use the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app to refine the settings and save them on your iPad/iPhone. It's easy to save and upload different settings from the app to the 4700 for future use. The $20 app is the best accessory you can buy for your Denon 4700.

Have fun!

4700-back.jpg
 

Kheflw33

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Congrats on the new setup. It's easy to get started.
1. Connect the R3 to Front banana plugs.
2. Connect the Sub(s) to the Sub pre-out.
3. Connect TV to HDMI eArc
4. If you have a second TV you want to use - connect the monitor HDMI port to feed it.
5. Run Audyssey to complete the setup. Use the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app to refine the settings and save them on your iPad/iPhone. It's easy to save and upload different settings from the app to the 4700 for future use. The $20 app is the best accessory you can buy for your Denon 4700.

Have fun

View attachment 258303
Thanks, does Audessey and the App save those as a Group, with the HDMI included? I'm assuming then I would run Audeysee with the full surround system and it would include the two KEF fronts and save that as a group. Is that right?

Thanks for the App tip, will definitely get it.
 

LunaTempesta

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4700 for future use. The $20 app is the best accessory you can buy for your Denon 4700.

Does this really help the sound in a big way?
I recently ran through the whole Auddysey set up again after swapping some Isoacoustics and cables for my Focal Aria's.
And Auddysey still randomly gives different out of phase speakers.
The swap came with increased clarity and better low management imo, but at the same time I kinda feel like it removed some of the perceivable punch.
I run the receiver in direct mode most of the time for music, but occasionally swapped back to stereo mode for certain tracks just to ''feel''.

If that above makes any sense. Is it possible with the app to get some more ''oomph'' back?
The reviews on the app store were so dreadful I didn't bother with it so far.
 

peng

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Does this really help the sound in a big way?
I recently ran through the whole Auddysey set up again after swapping some Isoacoustics and cables for my Focal Aria's.
And Auddysey still randomly gives different out of phase speakers.
The swap came with increased clarity and better low management imo, but at the same time I kinda feel like it removed some of the perceivable punch.
I run the receiver in direct mode most of the time for music, but occasionally swapped back to stereo mode for certain tracks just to ''feel''.

If that above makes any sense. Is it possible with the app to get some more ''oomph'' back?
The reviews on the app store were so dreadful I didn't bother with it so far.

If the oomph is related to bass performance then I am sure you can use the app to get more of it by doing the following:

- play with the area where you may have more room gain in direct mode.

- put a tilt in the 10 to 200 Hz range such as the what has been called the "Harman curves".

- set crossovers to close to the highest possible values without causing other negative effects. 80 Hz is usually good for bass capable speakers, 60 Hz not so good but it depend.

- Enable DEQ, and try different offsets.

Just a side note: disabe MRC and see if you like it better.
 

Kheflw33

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Streaming question:
From the integrated HEOS on the 4700, when streaming Amazon music, the bitrate is displayed on TV as 24 bit with a kbps #, and Amazon logo shows as HD or Ultra HD . Sounds great, no complaints.
I've got my system setup so I can ask Alexa to play the same music, Alexa sends it over HEOS to the 4700, same song, but the Bitrate tag is not there, nor is the Amazon HD.

I've done lots of searching, to see how the mechanics of streaming from one device to another if it degrades. Hard to find.

Before getting the 4700 with HEOS I was streaming Alexa to Firestick on reciever, I know that is limited to 16Bit.
Is Alexa sending 24bit to HEOS?
 

LunaTempesta

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If the oomph is related to bass performance then I am sure you can use the app to get more of it by doing the following:

- play with the area where you may have more room gain in direct mode.

- put a tilt in the 10 to 200 Hz range such as the what has been called the "Harman curves".

- set crossovers to close to the highest possible values without causing other negative effects. 80 Hz is usually good for bass capable speakers, 60 Hz not so good but it depend.

- Enable DEQ, and try different offsets.

Just a side note: disabe MRC and see if you like it better.

Thanks for the info points! Had some time to play around and use your guidelines. Took the time to do a proper 8 point cal as well, I believe previous times I did no more than 4. Initial curve below. Speakers set to full range. Looks flat enough, wonder what the dip in midrange is though? Anybody with more knowledge than me able to answer that.
Does it have to do with my room characteristics?
Haven't gone through the full scoop of things yet, but gave a ~5db boost to the 200hz and lower range and definitely added back what I was missing initially.
Gotta see if I want to set a frequency filter range for Audyssey now. But I think I'll play around with the sliders a bit more and see where I leave it.

NRtHBZt.jpg
 

peng

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Thanks for the info points! Had some time to play around and use your guidelines. Took the time to do a proper 8 point cal as well, I believe previous times I did no more than 4. Initial curve below. Speakers set to full range. Looks flat enough, wonder what the dip in midrange is though? Anybody with more knowledge than me able to answer that.
Does it have to do with my room characteristics?
Haven't gone through the full scoop of things yet, but gave a ~5db boost to the 200hz and lower range and definitely added back what I was missing initially.
Gotta see if I want to set a frequency filter range for Audyssey now. But I think I'll play around with the sliders a bit more and see where I leave it.

NRtHBZt.jpg

If you don't want that dip, use the app to disable MRC.
 

Hipster Doofus

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i would give it the headless panther just based on the weakass clipping at 1.4V. what normal people using this would think their cdplayer outputs more than a preamp? even some experienced audiophiles dont understand gain and just toss any amp on the outputs.
Yes I don’t get all that …how do you know when these voltage‘s matter or don’t…I need a cheat sheet. for instance input impedance for digital it’s one thing and for rca it’s another etc…and at least most times I am not even aware of where to look to match the input needed with the output available. Cheeez , that’s why I am an advocate for self driving stereos.
 
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Hi everyone, is there any reason why I cant use this device and my Hypex amps for the front two channels? Thanks!
 

peng

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Yes I don’t get all that …how do you know when these voltage‘s matter or don’t…I need a cheat sheet. for instance input impedance for digital it’s one thing and for rca it’s another etc…and at least most times I am not even aware of where to look to match the input needed with the output available. Cheeez , that’s why I am an advocate for self driving stereos.

You can have a cheat sheet if you state your goal of SINAD, and the rated output of your power amplifier(s). Otherwise it is impossible because, for example, at 1.4 V, SINAD might be close to 100 dB, but you accept 76 dB, it may be 2.0 V. And the pre out voltage needed to drive a power amp depends on the gain and the rated output of the power amp. So whether those voltages matter or not depends on your need.

Actually, specifically about the 1.4 V thing quote a many times on ASR, I might have posted some sort of what you might have meant by "cheat sheet" before, under stated assumptions. You can do a quick search if you are interested.
 

Helical

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What would you be missing out on by purchasing the 4700 today over newer models in terms of future proofing? (As far as future proofing goes for AVRs, ha).

For my use case I would never connect more than two subs, and there is no room in my budget to spend the insane amount of 850$ on Dirac whenever that launches on the newer models.
 

ban25

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What would you be missing out on by purchasing the 4700 today over newer models in terms of future proofing? (As far as future proofing goes for AVRs, ha).

For my use case I would never connect more than two subs, and there is no room in my budget to spend the insane amount of 850$ on Dirac whenever that launches on the newer models.
Where did you see $850 for Dirac Live? The limited version of Dirac Live will be $249 and the full bandwidth version will cost $349 (you can upgrade from limited to full for $99).

What are you missing?

* Dirac Live
* HDMI 2.1 (8K60 / 4K120)
* 4 independent subwoofer outputs
* 1080p OSD (vs 480p)

Note that the X3800H has Auro3D as well as pre-amp disconnect mode, so you could easily choose that over an X4700H/X4800H unless you must have the extra 20wpc (just get an external amp in that case?).
 

ArturoKiwi

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Where did you see $850 for Dirac Live? The limited version of Dirac Live will be $249 and the full bandwidth version will cost $349 (you can upgrade from limited to full for $99).

What are you missing?

* Dirac Live
* HDMI 2.1 (8K60 / 4K120)
* 4 independent subwoofer outputs
* 1080p OSD (vs 480p)

Note that the X3800H has Auro3D as well as pre-amp disconnect mode, so you could easily choose that over an X4700H/X4800H unless you must have the extra 20wpc (just get an external amp in that case?).
Maybe he add the cost of the DLBC to the 349$ if the full bandwidth
 

Helical

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Yes I did include cost of DLBC as well. So I’m a probably a bit off with 850$, but not by that much?
 

Helical

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What are you missing?

* Dirac Live
* HDMI 2.1 (8K60 / 4K120)
* 4 independent subwoofer outputs
* 1080p OSD (vs 480p)
Are you sure about the HDMI?

From denon: «The AVR-X4700H features an advanced HDMI section (8 in/3 out) with a dedicated 8K input that will support 8K/60Hz and 4K/120Hz video pass-through and upscaling.»

Are the HDMI-inputs/outputs on 4700 inferior in another way?
 

connta

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Hello, first time poster, awful long time reader!

I have always trusted this site in my gear selection and it has not let me down yet. My old AVR broke and i need a replacement, got a good deal on x4700 but i read that there is a hw revision out there (70001 and above SN) that is untested and many say inferior to the original. :/ Seeing how x3800 got pretty much downgraded for a decent chunk more money i'd rather go fishing in used gear if thats the case with this "late" x4700.

The seller should be able to provide me with SN for the unit he has but i want to have a decision for him either way. If anyone can shed any insight, it would be appreciated.
 
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