Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[peng]

Darn, I don't remember Amazon having a price like that a few weeks ago when I bought my 4700 from BB for several hundred more. Should I return mine and pick this up from Amazon? I can return my 4700 until January.

I will say, coming from my AVR-X5200W that lost its left front channel, something about this 4700 just doesn't seem to sound as good to me. I mainly notice it in movies when the musical score is playing, which is mainly in the front L/R channels. The score just doesn't sound as smooth and "musical" sounding. Yes, yes, I know! Subjective.

I have the 4700 set up just like I had the 5200 set up, including speaker distances and levels. No Audyssey.

I'm also wondering if I should bite the bullet and try to find a nice used condition AVR-X6700 or an open box one. I say that because the 6700 has closer to the amplifier design and topology of my 5200.

Sounds to me you are a good candidate for trying out a transparent power amp such as the Hypex or Purifi based ones. Go for 200 W 8 ohms minimum though, then forget about the 6700's amp topology, measurenents don't lie..

 

[MarcT]

Sounds to mean you are a good candidate for trying out a transparent power amp such as the Hypex or Purifi based ones. Go for 200 W 8 ohms minimum though, then forget about the 6700's amp topology, measurenents don't lie..

Thanks, yes that's what I've been telling myself since I got the 4700! I already have and use my separate power amp for the front L/R channels, which is where the musical score is placed in the mix for movies. You and I discussed my setup at some length on another forum. I have the 4700 set up with the front L/R channels selected for "pre out". And it still seems like my 5200 sounded a touch nicer than this 4700(with both set up the same way).

 

[amper42]

Darn, I don't remember Amazon having a price like that a few weeks ago when I bought my 4700 from BB for several hundred more. Should I return mine and pick this up from Amazon? I can return my 4700 until January.

I will say, coming from my AVR-X5200W that lost its left front channel, something about this 4700 just doesn't seem to sound as good to me. I mainly notice it in movies when the musical score is playing, which is mainly in the front L/R channels. The score just doesn't sound as smooth and "musical" sounding. Yes, yes, I know! Subjective.

I have the 4700 set up just like I had the 5200 set up, including speaker distances and levels. No Audyssey.

I'm also wondering if I should bite the bullet and try to find a nice used condition AVR-X6700 or an open box one. I say that because the 6700 has closer to the amplifier design and topology of my 5200.

I would suggest using Audyssey to configure your Denon 4700. Next, use the MultiEQ app to try turning off/on the automatic midrange compensation in Audyssey and see if that makes an audible difference to you. With the MultiEQ app you can make the Denon sound anyway you want it. You just have to know what that is. You can't do that if you don't use Audyssey.

The other thing to consider is the measurements of your external amp. I personally like to use an amp with a 28dB gain and SNR above 90dB. Some users buy an amp that doesn't offer great measurements like the Emotive BasX and think it should sound as good as the Monolith 7x200. It certainly doesn't to me. Measurements matter.

 

[MarcT]

I would suggest using Audyssey to configure your Denon 4700. Next, use the MultiEQ app to try turning off/on the automatic midrange compensation in Audyssey and see if that makes an audible difference to you. With the MultiEQ app you can make the Denon sound anyway you want it. You just have to know what that is. You can't do that if you don't use Audyssey.

The other thing to consider is the measurements of your external amp. I personally like to use an amp with a 28dB gain and SNR above 90dB. Some users buy an amp that doesn't offer great measurements like the Emotive BasX and think it should sound as good as the Monolith 7x200. It certainly doesn't to me. Measurements matter.

But what I'm talking about is the 4700 possibly not sounding as good as the 5200 in the same system and setup. So, all that stuff you mentioned is not part of the equation. Seems like people are branching off into tangents here.

 

[amper42]

But what I'm talking about is the 4700 possibly not sounding as good as the 5200 in the same system and setup. So, all that stuff you mentioned is not part of the equation. Seems like people are branching off into tangents here.

Audyssey is important for setting up the 4700. In fact, my 4700 wouldn't even run without configuring Audyssey 1st. You can use REW to measure the 5200 and place that same EQ in Audyssey with the Multi-EQ app. But you have to spend a little time understanding how to use the tools.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

‎Audyssey MultEQ Editor app

‎The latest Denon Marantz audio video products use Audyssey MultEQ for simple, accurate set-up calibration of your system to the room in which it’s used. But, now you can go further with the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app, going ‘under the hood’ to view and adjust settings for detailed tuning –...

apps.apple.com

If that's not something you want to do I would suggest buying the Onkyo RZ50 with Dirac and giving it a try.

https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-RZ50-9-2CH-Network-Receiver/dp/B09D8SB7DN

 

[MarcT]

Audyssey is important for setting up the 4700. In fact, my 4700 wouldn't even run without configuring Audyssey 1st. You can use REW to measure the 5200 and place that same EQ in Audyssey with the Multi-EQ app. But you have to spend a little time understanding how to use the tools.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

‎Audyssey MultEQ Editor app

‎The latest Denon Marantz audio video products use Audyssey MultEQ for simple, accurate set-up calibration of your system to the room in which it’s used. But, now you can go further with the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app, going ‘under the hood’ to view and adjust settings for detailed tuning –...

apps.apple.com

If that's not something you want to do I would suggest buying the Onkyo RZ50 with Dirac and giving it a try.

https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-RZ50-9-2CH-Network-Receiver/dp/B09D8SB7DN

Thanks, my 4700 runs fine without setting up Audyssey, as did my 5200. The issue here is any possible difference in sound quality between the two when set up the same way.

 

[MarcT]

Did you compare them side by side level match? I ask because of echoic memory and all that.

Thanks, no, I can't really do that because, as I wrote, the front L channel went out on the 5200, which is why I got a new AVR. Yes, I understand about aural memory limitations. But I used the 5200 for about 6 or 7 years, so I feel like I got a good feel for the sound of it. It's not a big difference I think I hear. And I don't think it's a sound level issue. The 5200 just seemed to sound nicer and smoother with the musical score of movies. Instruments like strings seemed "prettier". It's hard to describe.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

So I have been considering the RZX50, 3800h and this 4700h.
The 3800 I like because of the 4 sub output and been able to use one for tactile transducers in the future is a nice feature.
I did not like the SINAD here BUT in preamp mode it looks like I get around 90dB at 1.6v which to me should be more than enough.
I also currently get it cheaper than a new 4700h through my dealer.

The RZ50 I liked because of Dirac already there although I am yet to experience Dirac so no idea if its actually any better than Audyssey.
Of course it has one sub output essentially, but I do have a MiniDSP I can use one day when I sit down to learn it lol

The 4700h I was liking because of the better SINAD but requiring me to grab a 4 channel amp for atmos (my current amp is 7 channels) to get the best SINAD or accept that 80dB is likely as good to me. Then I am losing on 2 subs and maybe more importantly, Dirac option.

Decisions decisions...

 

[peng]

So I have been considering the RZX50, 3800h and this 4700h.
The 3800 I like because of the 4 sub output and been able to use one for tactile transducers in the future is a nice feature.
I did not like the SINAD here BUT in preamp mode it looks like I get around 90dB at 1.6v which to me should be more than enough.
I also currently get it cheaper than a new 4700h through my dealer.

The RZ50 I liked because of Dirac already there although I am yet to experience Dirac so no idea if its actually any better than Audyssey.
Of course it has one sub output essentially, but I do have a MiniDSP I can use one day when I sit down to learn it lol

The 4700h I was liking because of the better SINAD but requiring me to grab a 4 channel amp for atmos (my current amp is 7 channels) to get the best SINAD or accept that 80dB is likely as good to me. Then I am losing on 2 subs and maybe more importantly, Dirac option.

Decisions decisions...

I just want to caution that if you have the 4XHD that I played with for weeks and then put it back into box, you might find it not really making any audible difference yet would add a bunch of interconnecting wires to the wire clutter inherent with so many channels (7.1.4 with 5 subs for me) used already.

It also has a 2 V max output spec, so if you are keen on the SINAD number you would have to wonder how much degradation it might add, though if you only use it to help control the subs then it won't matter much if at all. I found using XT32 SubEQ HT, for two subs, or even more (people claim it's a must for 4 subs, I am not so sure..), the minidsp/REW equalizers could not do any better, if not worse. To me, keep it stupid and simple may be better.

 

[Rockman2]

If I had this choice I would go with the Denon 4700 especially if I could find one with the AKM DAC. The Denon 4800 does not have a front HDMI port like the 4700. That port is nice for REW testing. I also find the Audyssey Multi-EQ app for iPad is all I need for EQ. I would not be willing to pay extra for Dirac on top of the already high $2500 for a 4800. I don't need four sub ports. I have two sub cabinets, a 15" HSU and a dual 15" VMPS sub. Those two subs can absolutely shake the room.

Used 4700 AVRs with AKM sell in the $1200 range or new units can be found for $1499. I don't see a reason to pay $1000 more for a Denon 4800 and even more for Dirac.
https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X4700H-Ultra-Channel-Receiver/dp/B089Y5KMFQ/

If I absolutely had to have Dirac, I would buy the Onkyo RZ50. It has Dirac now. No waiting. Implementation tested and complete.
https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-RZ50-9-2CH-Network-Receiver/dp/B09D8SB7DN/

Sorry, still asking if I have ARC room correction on my subs from marantz than would i need the independent sub out puts from the 4800? I can just adjust my sub output using their app. Yes? I can get a 4700 for about 1200. I can also get a pretty good deal on a 6700

 

[dlaloum]

Sorry, still asking if I have ARC room correction on my subs from marantz than would i need the independent sub out puts from the 4800? I can just adjust my sub output using their app. Yes? I can get a 4700 for about 1200. I can also get a pretty good deal on a 6700

Hard to tell.

The 4700 and 6700 both have Audyssey SubEQ - but that is pretty basic
Arc will probably do a better job

The 4800, has multisub with the ability to localise subs ... that is quite different

So for the 4700/6700, I would go ARC
for the 4800, it you might need to experiment to see what you prefer.

In theory the ARC setup will give better results, but it won't give you localised bass - directional

So the only one able to really answer the question will be you!

 

[amper42]

Hard to tell.

The 4700 and 6700 both have Audyssey SubEQ - but that is pretty basic
Arc will probably do a better job

The 4800, has multisub with the ability to localise subs ... that is quite different

So for the 4700/6700, I would go ARC
for the 4800, it you might need to experiment to see what you prefer.

In theory the ARC setup will give better results, but it won't give you localised bass - directional

So the only one able to really answer the question will be you!

The Denon 4700 does a fine job with subwoofers. Audyssey measures sub 1 and then measures sub 2 - each independently and once correction is complete it tests both sub signals combined. It works great in my room. I certainly would not consider the Denon 4700 sub EQ a reason not to select a Denon 4700.

 

[Rockman2]

Thank you, I was going to ask you or another 3800 owner to confirm whether pre out only is selectable for the front L/R channels like the X3700H. Based on your screen shot, you can select center channel to pre out only so that's good news. In this case my original assumption stated in my original post on this feature way back was right, then after reading the manual, I thought (like Music707..) I was wrong and edited my post now it looks like I was actually correct again..

D+M needs to find someone who knows how to write manuals, so that potential customers don't have to depend on forum members who are helpful enough to post screen shots for simple questions on features.

I use pre-out only inside the Speaker Connection menu of my X3800H for LCR channels. My other speakers are using the amps on the receiver.

Amp Assign is set to 7.1 + Zone 2. Any amp assign mode lets me choose if I want to use “Pre-out only” or “Speaker + Pre-out” in the separate Speaker Connection screen

In a slightly related way, I’ll copy-paste a discovery from my initial first review:

I was on the phone with Denon support and they told me this was not possible. Then I emailed the screen shot from lexelot and the speaker setup on the 3800. He put me on hold again and said yes you can disable the LCR internal amps. Then said you can not do this on the 4700. is this accurate? Seems their tech guys are not trained well.

 

[dlaloum]

The Denon 4700 does a fine job with subwoofers. Audyssey measures sub 1 and then measures sub 2 - each independently and once correction is complete it tests both sub signals combined. It works great in my room. I certainly would not consider the Denon 4700 sub EQ a reason not to select a Denon 4700.

SubEQ does simple level matching at the MLP, what it does not do, is try to actively process the signal to level out peaks and troughs in the listening area - which is the sort of thing DLBC does do. (not sure about ARC - but I believe it has similar functionality? anyone want to chime in? ) - also, I don't believe SubEQ tries to do anything with impulse response.

What the new generation D&M provide is the ability to seperate and localise subs in the quadrants of the room - allowing for bass localisation

Hence my comment - I had an AVR with SubEQ - and ended up putting my 2nd Sub in storage, as the negligible gains, did not offset the inconvenience of positioning the 2nd sub in our living space

 

[Everett T]

I was on the phone with Denon support and they told me this was not possible. Then I emailed the screen shot from lexelot and the speaker setup on the 3800. He put me on hold again and said yes you can disable the LCR internal amps. Then said you can not do this on the 4700. is this accurate? Seems their tech guys are not trained well.

This has been discussed ad nauseam, search feature is your friend..

 

[peng]

SubEQ does simple level matching at the MLP, what it does not do, is try to actively process the signal to level out peaks and troughs in the listening area - which is the sort of thing DLBC does do. (not sure about ARC - but I believe it has similar functionality? anyone want to chime in? ) - also, I don't believe SubEQ tries to do anything with impulse response.

What the new generation D&M provide is the ability to seperate and localise subs in the quadrants of the room - allowing for bass localisation

Hence my comment - I had an AVR with SubEQ - and ended up putting my 2nd Sub in storage, as the negligible gains, did not offset the inconvenience of positioning the 2nd sub in our living space

That may all be true but I often wonder if done in DBT or even SBT level matched, whether one can pick the better sounding one (to the individual) consistently. That is, all else being equal, DL with no DLBC vs XT32 Sub EQ HT.

 

[Rockman2]

This has been discussed ad nauseam, search feature is your friend..

I agree, the problem is some say you can only do pre amp all channels only and some say in different ways you can separate out LR or LCR. So yes there is a lot of conflicting posts. Also different ideas of what can be done between the 4700 and 4800. So I thought I could get answers from Denon but that did not work either.

 

[ban25]

That may all be true but I often wonder if done in DBT or even SBT level matched, whether one can pick the better sounding one (to the individual) consistently. That is, all else being equal, DL with no DLBC vs XT32 Sub EQ HT.

I have a theory that most of the praise for DL over XT32 is down to the "corrections" that Audyssey applies by default in the onboard Room EQ. One nice aspect of this year's D+M receivers is that we will be able to run DL and XT32 side-by-side using the different presets to compare.

 

[RGibran]

If I had this choice I would go with the Denon 4700 especially if I could find one with the AKM DAC

Why the preference for the AKM DAC vs current one? Thanks

 

[Everett T]

I agree, the problem is some say you can only do pre amp all channels only and some say in different ways you can separate out LR or LCR. So yes there is a lot of conflicting posts. Also different ideas of what can be done between the 4700 and 4800. So I thought I could get answers from Denon but that did not work either.

Peng has posted the correct information everytime and has tried to clear up the confusion when misinformation has been posted. The 4800 will have several benefits over the 4700, whether those are important to you is hard to determine. The 4800 looks like a major refresh considering the upgrade possibilities w/Dirac, the fully independent sub outs and the latest HDMI architecture, improved gui, and working out the bugs after they had to use two different DAC chips..