Thank you very much for doing the trial, I hope the wiring are easily accessible. The 4700 measured much better in SINAD not only at high output level but also in the important "First watt" range. It also measured better in frequency response. The Outlaw was only better in cross talk. So if you listen well below reference level, the 4700's internal amps should do better, on paper anyway, though there may be no audible difference.
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Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)
- Thread starter amirm
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Thank you very much for doing the trial, I hope the wiring are easily accessible. The 4700 measured much better in SINAD not only at high output level but also in the important "First watt" range. It also measured better in frequency response. The Outlaw was only better in cross talk. So if you listen well below reference level, the 4700's internal amps should do better, on paper anyway, though there may be no audible difference.
It might have been a standardization thing, if the HDAMs are on a different board, and the board where the NJM8080 buffer for the FL/FR are may be used on both. Just a guess.. As you alluded to, the measurements of the X8500H and the X6700H with the fixed cap are really going to be interesting.
Just noticed that the SR6014 has the NJM8080 too for the front left and right channels. And, incidentally, its SINAD measured a little better at 2 V, than the AV7705 that is a preamp/processor (compared to 2.4V and 4 V as Amir used the balanced outputs). At 1.2 V (2.4 V/XLR for the AV7705) the measured SINADs were about the same for both. I wonder if the improvement at 2 V for the SR6014 was due to the added opa stage. Doesn't make much sense though, assuming those HDAMs were well designed/build, adding another opa buffer can only add noise and even distortions, I would think..
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Atlantis089
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Hello, is there any news of a fix for the down mix?
Does anyone know if the X4500H can also turn off the internal amplifier of the front L/R for use with Pre-out with the same 11 channel setting? I think the X3700H suits my needs but I found a preowned X4500H for $300 less than a new X3700H will cost me.
Yes it can. The X4400H, 6400H, 6500H can do it too.
PCs and especially notebooks have much more sophisticated thermal and power management than AVRs, though. A laptop can (and does) cut clock rate in order to reduce heat dissipation. Amplifiers can't really do this. They either continue to run or shut down. So it's not quite a perfect comparison.
That problem isn't unique to this model of AVR. It seems to be universal. I don't know why that is. My hypothesis is that they manufacturers are worried that the test tones might frighten small children or something.
It seems that there is 2 ways through the « amp assign « menu:
1) select the full pre amp mode. Then you will to use external power amps for all channels of interest
2) select the 11.1 configuration and assign the R and L channels to external power amps. The rest of the channels will be powered by the internal amps
i am sure that 4700h owners will confirm this
Atlantis089
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Hello, little question. Could turning off the power supply damage the device or is it better to put it on standby? I hear everything and its opposite for the amp.
To add to post#1151, Amir's "Amps off" did not mean power off to the power amps, it just meant the power amps (front left and front right in this case) were disconnected from the front left and right pre-outs. With no signal to the power amps, the amps will not be amplifying anything so while there would still be some small bias current flowing, there won't be any output voltage. Power consumption will therefore minimal and won't cause any degradation in the pre-out's signal quality.
if you set 11.1 channels you have to put 4 or 5 upper channels to be able to exclude the front channels otherwise I have not found any way to exclude them.
I use a stereo integrated for the front channels that is part of a stereo chain and I would like to be able to exclude the power amps to make the denon less warm
I use a stereo integrated for the front channels that is part of a stereo chain and I would like to be able to exclude the power amps to make the denon less warm
Not only that, you have to go into the amp assign manual to assign the front left and front right to "pre out", in order to disconnect those two internal power amps.
ok I was able to configure it so basically you tell him that you have 4 higher channels and then in the automatic configuration you tell him to skip the measurement of the channels you don't have.
The volume starting at 0 is a bug which a future firmware update will fix. I use mine on 'last' which works fine.
The click is the ECO mode switching off when you have it in 'Auto'. Below that volume, ECO is on, above it ECO is off. Changing the volume down again won't get the click immediately, there's a small delay.
Edit: For info, on the relative volume scale, the ECO switch point is at -30dBFS
Bonjour
Désolé pour la traduction mais j'utilise google.
J'achèterai certainement le 4700 pour mon ensemble Klipsch (RF63, RC62 et RS52).
Je n'ai pas pu écouter les enceintes Klipsch avec un denon, mais cela semble fonctionner correctement.
J'ai un gros doute sur les pré-outs.
Avec mon ancien amplificateur home cinéma (pioneer lx52), j'utilise un amplificateur stéréo comme pré-sortie pour mes frontales et un deuxième amplificateur comme pré-sortie pour ma centrale.
Avec le Denon, j'ai l'impression que je ne vais pas pouvoir établir ces connexions.
Pour le front end, un amplificateur externe est ok mais pour mon central?
Je comprends que je ne peux utiliser un amplificateur externe que pour l'avant ou sinon je dois l'utiliser pour toutes les enceintes. C'est très restrictif !!!
Vais-je pouvoir utiliser un ampli externe et si oui dans quelles conditions. (Je n'ai pas tout à fait compris cette histoire 2v). Quelles sont les caractéristiques que mon amplificateur externe devrait avoir pour l'unité de contrôle (en fait, j'ai deux unités de contrôle identiques et je les branche sur cet amplificateur externe; il peut ne pas être aussi efficace avec le nouveau 4700)
Désolé pour ces questions mais j'ai lu toutes vos réponses correctement et j'ai encore des doutes:
Pour résumer ce montage sera-t-il possible
Avec le 4700:
Environs: directement sur le 4700
Frontal: sur un amplificateur stéroïde via le pré-out
Pour l'unité de contrôle: sur un amplificateur stéroïde via le pré-out
Si possible, quelles devraient être les caractéristiques des amplificateurs stéréo ((je n'ai pas bien compris les 2 volts)
Un grand merci pour vos réponses
Désolé pour la traduction mais j'utilise google.
J'achèterai certainement le 4700 pour mon ensemble Klipsch (RF63, RC62 et RS52).
Je n'ai pas pu écouter les enceintes Klipsch avec un denon, mais cela semble fonctionner correctement.
J'ai un gros doute sur les pré-outs.
Avec mon ancien amplificateur home cinéma (pioneer lx52), j'utilise un amplificateur stéréo comme pré-sortie pour mes frontales et un deuxième amplificateur comme pré-sortie pour ma centrale.
Avec le Denon, j'ai l'impression que je ne vais pas pouvoir établir ces connexions.
Pour le front end, un amplificateur externe est ok mais pour mon central?
Je comprends que je ne peux utiliser un amplificateur externe que pour l'avant ou sinon je dois l'utiliser pour toutes les enceintes. C'est très restrictif !!!
Vais-je pouvoir utiliser un ampli externe et si oui dans quelles conditions. (Je n'ai pas tout à fait compris cette histoire 2v). Quelles sont les caractéristiques que mon amplificateur externe devrait avoir pour l'unité de contrôle (en fait, j'ai deux unités de contrôle identiques et je les branche sur cet amplificateur externe; il peut ne pas être aussi efficace avec le nouveau 4700)
Désolé pour ces questions mais j'ai lu toutes vos réponses correctement et j'ai encore des doutes:
Pour résumer ce montage sera-t-il possible
Avec le 4700:
Environs: directement sur le 4700
Frontal: sur un amplificateur stéroïde via le pré-out
Pour l'unité de contrôle: sur un amplificateur stéroïde via le pré-out
Si possible, quelles devraient être les caractéristiques des amplificateurs stéréo ((je n'ai pas bien compris les 2 volts)
Un grand merci pour vos réponses
AudioQuestShill
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I'm using a Denon X4000 as a stereo receiver for my desktop speakers since I upgraded to something else a long time ago for my home theater system. I've been using a 5.1 config while setting FL and FR speakers to Large and disabled everything else. I'm assuming this bug that was discovered is also prevalent for even slightly older models thus the best configuration should be turn every speakers such as Center, Surround to "Large" and Subwoofer to "1SP"? How do I check how many channels that the output path is showing? For now I've enabled all channels in the 5.1 configuration as Amirm did here.
Hi I am french but I will answer in english to follow the rule of this forum.
with the 4700h there is 2 ways to get benefit of disconnecting the internal Amplifiers from the preamp part to get optimal SINAD.
The first one is select the full preamp mode. All internal power maps are disconnected. that means that you need to have a number of power amps which corresponds to your number of loudspeakers . In your case that means that you will have to buy an additional amp to power the Rs52.
the second option is to select in the amp assign menu the 11.2 channels setup and disconnect the left and the right channel. Then you can power the Left and the right channels in optimal conditions (with internal amps disconnected) and you can still power the central channel with an external amp but with having the internal amp disconnected. The surround will remained powered by the internzl amps. This scenario is less optimal than the first one when you play the movie/ music very loud (voltage output above 1.4V). But this is cost-effective since you will not have to buy an additional power amp for the surround.
Regarding the compliance of your stereo amp with these set-ups, you have to check what is the input sensitivity (sensibilité d’entrée) of your amp. for an optimal match with the 4700h, it has to be in the range of 1.2 - 2 V. I would not worry about it since it is the case for most of the power amps.
I hope that help...
