Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[Designo]

Unlike all other AV receivers on sale here in the UK (even others in the current Denon range), retailers have recently increased the price of the X3700h from £999 to £1099. It just shows the power of ASR influencing the level of demand!

It's also out of stock in many places

 

[CoolHandDuke]

If I was to use this unit for just 2.1 or 2.2 configuration, and an external stereo power amp with a sensitivity of 1.6V, would that make for a solid combination?

 

[ciotime]

With regards to choosing an external amp to power the Denon X3700H I've been told that it's very important to get one with a specific sensitivity that will match the Denon's pre-out voltage gain. Saw this review and I quote " As you see, peak performance with the amplifiers off is around 1.1 volts with SINAD of 101 dB which is excellent for an AVR. With the amps on, you are OK up to 1.4 volt output before it nose dives. So when selecting an external amplifier for channels beyond fronts, make sure it can output its maximum power at or below 1.4 volts (usually specified as "sensitivity"). " I never knew this until I asked someone if getting the Rotel RMB1585 was a good idea to use as an external amp. The INPUT SENSITIVITY is as follows: Line Level Inputs (RCA): 1.9V / Line Level Inputs (XLR): 3.8V. 1.9V is WAY above the recommended 1.4 volt. Am I correct that I should choose a power amp with an Input Sensitivity of 1.4V or lower? IF an input voltage to an amp is less than it's rated sensitivity, the amp will not come close to amplifying the signal to it's rated wattage. SO, if I use the Rotel, it most likely will make less output wattage per channel than just using the Denon alone and there is no point in spending money on an amp that actually makes less power than the AVR that it's connected to. Or will the Rotel RMB1585 paired with the X3700H be fine? I plan to externally power just the 3 front speakers and just let the Denon handle the other surround speakers. Setup is 7.2.4.

 

[amper42]

With regards to choosing an external amp to power the Denon X3700H I've been told that it's very important to get one with a specific sensitivity that will match the Denon's pre-out voltage gain. Saw this review and I quote " As you see, peak performance with the amplifiers off is around 1.1 volts with SINAD of 101 dB which is excellent for an AVR. With the amps on, you are OK up to 1.4 volt output before it nose dives. So when selecting an external amplifier for channels beyond fronts, make sure it can output its maximum power at or below 1.4 volts (usually specified as "sensitivity"). " I never knew this until I asked someone if getting the Rotel RMB1585 was a good idea to use as an external amp. The INPUT SENSITIVITY is as follows: Line Level Inputs (RCA): 1.9V / Line Level Inputs (XLR): 3.8V. 1.9V is WAY above the recommended 1.4 volt. Am I correct that I should choose a power amp with an Input Sensitivity of 1.4V or lower? IF an input voltage to an amp is less than it's rated sensitivity, the amp will not come close to amplifying the signal to it's rated wattage. SO, if I use the Rotel, it most likely will make less output wattage per channel than just using the Denon alone and there is no point in spending money on an amp that actually makes less power than the AVR that it's connected to. Or will the Rotel RMB1585 paired with the X3700H be fine? I plan to externally power just the 3 front speakers and just let the Denon handle the other surround speakers. Setup is 7.2.4.

The Rotel RMB1585 offers a Gain of 26.5 dB. That's the same as the March Audio Purifi P452. When you use an amp with 26.5 gain with the Denon 3700 it will work without problems but you lose 2dB compared to using the Monolith 7X200 (28 dB gain) at the same volume level. It's not a big deal. The Denon 3700 automatically sets levels to account for the 26.5 dB gain once you configure Audyssey.

Personally, I would rather have the Monolith 7x200 vs the Rotel. It's less money, sounds great and is a very good match for the Denon 3700.

 

[ciotime]

The Rotel RMB1585 offers a Gain of 26.5 dB. That's the same as the March Audio Purifi P452. When you use an amp with 26.5 gain with the Denon 3700 it will work without problems but you lose 2dB compared to using the Monolith 7X200 (28 dB gain) at the same volume level. It's not a big deal. The Denon 3700 automatically sets levels to account for the 26.5 dB gain once you configure Audyssey.

Personally, I would rather have the Monolith 7x200 vs the Rotel. It's less money, sounds great and is a very good match for the Denon 3700.

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately the Monolith isn't available in my country.
Anyway what's your opinion that the voltage gain of the Denon ( 1.1V ) won't be able o fully drive the Rotel since the sensitivity is rated at 1.9V? And that I should find a power amp with an input sensitivity of 1.4V or lower.

 

[amper42]

When you connect the Rotel to the Denon 3700 it will work fine. But don't expect the sound to be much different than the internal Denon amps at sound levels of 75dB. You may gain some additional headroom but probably not as much as you are expecting?

Many Denon Receiver owners get the bug for external amps (including me) but the Denon internal amps are very capable for most configurations. I don't know what speakers you are using now but it's not unusual to find a bigger SQ difference with a speaker upgrade rather than a $3,000 amp.

 

[ciotime]

When you connect the Rotel to the Denon 3700 it will work fine. But don't expect the sound to be much different than the internal Denon amps at sound levels of 75dB. You may gain some additional headroom but probably not as much as you are expecting?

Many Denon Receiver owners get the bug for external amps (including me) but the Denon internal amps are very capable for most configurations. I don't know what speakers you are using now but it's not unusual to find a bigger SQ difference with a speaker upgrade rather than a $3,000 amp.

I'm using the Dali Oberon 7 in a 7.2.4 dedicated HT setup. The specs are listed below. the reason I'm asking is coz someone gave me a good deal on the Rotel RMB1585 at less than $2000. Now I assume that with the Rotel's it'll sound better compared to just using the Denon's internal amp but will it sound $2000 better?

Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz]36 - 26,000
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB]88.5
Nominal Impedance [ohms]6
Maximum SPL [dB]110
Recommended Amplifier Power [W]30 - 180
Crossover Frequency [Hz]2,300

 

[Bear123]

.......Rotel RMB1585 at less than $2000. Now I assume that with the Rotel's it'll sound better.....

What would make it sound better?(Not claiming that it won't, just curious what your thoughts are on why it would "sound" better)

 

[ciotime]

What would make it sound better?

I was actually just assuming...maybe I'm wrong

 

[Bear123]

I was actually just assuming...maybe I'm wrong

Hmm well I think if the Denon doesn't have enough power to driver your speakers to the levels you like to listen, and the Rotel does have enough power, it should make a difference. Part of what this depends on would be:
-Sensitivity of speakers
-Distance from speakers
-Full range or crossed to subs
-How much eq is applied
-How loud you listen in terms of reference level, movies or music.

Should be able to approximate power requirements based on the above, and see if you are close to exceeding Denon's capability.

 

[Dj7675]

Hello, new around here but hope i can get some help regarding AVRs. I've bought the NAD 758 v3i about a week ago but somehow missed this forum's reviews before the purchase.

A bit of a background, before the AVR purchase i bought a Cambridge AX61 which somewhat disappointed me in the bass section (thundering bass or not at all depending on how loud i set the amp). AX 3700h and 758 v3i were recommended being around the same price. Since the Denon was not in stock i got the 758, i enjoy it more than the Cambridge but not sure if i should keep it based on this forum's experience.

Should i wait for the Denon's and send back the NAD? I got the 758 v3i for about 1000$. Thank you for any help and have a great new year.

Equipment: SVS PB2000 PRO + 2 MA Bronze 500

I had the NAD T758v3 for around a year or so. A few thought FWIW
-At the time I had sensitive fairly speakers and I could hear noise/hiss at about 3 feet from the speakers.
-At the seating position, in use I thought it sounded fine at modest volumes (say around -15 to -20). At higher volumes I found it sounded harsh. I found I wanted to keep the volume down. From Amir’s measurements, the DAC should be fine up to around -6 on the volume control. So I don’t know why that was the case. Maybe the poor internal amps, not sure
-Dac measurements not good, amps are very poor relative to Denon.
-For me, the amps/dac is just something Dirac can’t overcome IMO.
-But the reason I would consider not keeping would actually be related to the various bugs in software, and useability Issues. No OSD to see the volume, no display to see active speakers, no loudness control (such as DEQ for low volume). I would get the Denon x3700 all day long, and use the Audyssey app.

 

[ciotime]

Hmm well I think if the Denon doesn't have enough power to driver your speakers to the levels you like to listen, and the Rotel does have enough power, it should make a difference. Part of what this depends on would be:
-Sensitivity of speakers
-Distance from speakers
-Full range or crossed to subs
-How much eq is applied
-How loud you listen in terms of reference level, movies or music.

Should be able to approximate power requirements based on the above, and see if you are close to exceeding Denon's capability.

-Sensitivity of speakers=88.5
-Distance from speakers=11' from the MLP
-Full range or crossed to subs=crossed to subs with dual SVS PB1000
-How much eq is applied=none yet
-How loud you listen in terms of reference level, movies or music.=movie watching about -10dB on the AVR

 

[amper42]

I'm using the Dali Oberon 7 in a 7.2.4 dedicated HT setup. The specs are listed below. the reason I'm asking is coz someone gave me a good deal on the Rotel RMB1585 at less than $2000. Now I assume that with the Rotel's it'll sound better compared to just using the Denon's internal amp but will it sound $2000 better?

Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz]36 - 26,000
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB]88.5
Nominal Impedance [ohms]6
Maximum SPL [dB]110
Recommended Amplifier Power [W]30 - 180
Crossover Frequency [Hz]2,300

I would ask the seller what the return policy might be? The Rotel RMB1585 may offer some benefit but it may not be worth $2,000 to your ears? The Dali Oberon 7 has a dip in the 3K range. Personally, I would prefer a speaker with a flat response like the BMR. Or the new BMR Towers? That's where my $2,000 upgrade dollars might go instead.

 

[ciotime]

I would ask the seller what the return policy might be? The Rotel RMB1585 may offer some benefit but it may not be worth $2,000 to your ears? The Dali Oberon 7 has a dip in the 3K range. Personally, I would prefer a speaker with a flat response like the BMR. Or the new BMR Towers? That's where my $2,000 upgrade dollars might go instead.

Unfortunately " Return Policy " doesn't exist in my country unlike there. Once you pay for the item it's a no return coz I change my mind thing. Only if the item is defective. Also the BMR isn't being sold here either. The more available one's are B&W/Klipsch/Wharfedale/Mission/Polk Audio/Dynaudio.

 

[amper42]

Unfortunately " Return Policy " doesn't exist in my country unlike there. Once you pay for the item it's a no return coz I change my mind thing. Only if the item is defective. Also the BMR isn't being sold here either. The more available one's are B&W/Klipsch/Wharfedale/Mission/Polk Audio/Dynaudio.

Another great option is the Revel F208 or 206. You could also email [email protected] to see if they might ship to your country?
http://philharmonicaudio.com

 

[ciotime]

Another great option is the Revel F208 or 206. You could also email [email protected] to see if they might ship to your country?
http://philharmonicaudio.com

The Revel F208/206 is available but I already got the Dali just recently.

 

[Dj7675]

-Sensitivity of speakers=88.5
-Distance from speakers=11' from the MLP
-Full range or crossed to subs=crossed to subs with dual SVS PB1000
-How much eq is applied=none yet
-How loud you listen in terms of reference level, movies or music.=movie watching about -10dB on the AVR

-Purchase the Audyssey app (hopefully you own a supported device). I would start by limiting EQ to somewhere between 300hz-1K, add 3-5db of bass boost in your curves, adding the same 3-5db to you sub levels, and experimenting with DEQ/Reference Level offset.

 

[ciotime]

-Purchase the Audyssey app (hopefully you own a supported device). I would start by limiting EQ to somewhere between 300hz-1K, add 3-5db of bass boost in your curves, adding the same 3-5db to you sub levels, and experimenting with DEQ/Reference Level offset.

Will do...thanks.

 

[Bear123]

-Sensitivity of speakers=88.5
-Distance from speakers=11' from the MLP
-Full range or crossed to subs=crossed to subs with dual SVS PB1000
-How much eq is applied=none yet
-How loud you listen in terms of reference level, movies or music.=movie watching about -10dB on the AVR

Ok, some quick napkin math with some hopefully ball park assumptions.

At 11' indoors, lets assume you lose about 8 dB due to distance from your speakers, and that the sensitivity rating of your speakers is accurate.
6 ohm speaker = around 1.3 watts for 88.5 dB at 1m.
Subtract 8 dB for distance, we have about 80 dB at 1m with 1.33 watts with your speakers in your room at your seat.
-10MV = 95 dB peaks. So we need to add 15 dB with power(to get from 80 to 95). Doubling power adds 3 dB. So we have to double power 5x to make up the 15 dB needed to get from 80 to 95.
This comes out to about 43 watts needed given the above assumptions.
Now if you are using an AVR with room correction, I think it is nearly impossible to not have at least 3 dB of eq below 300 Hz, which doubles power to 86. 6 dB of eq doubles that to 164....the Audssey menu/app will show you how much eq is applied to each of your speakers.
Based on the 4 ohm test results, it would seem that the X3700 should be able to burst 160 watts at 6 ohms as it hit 240 at 4 ohms.
Next, we have to assume your speakers can handle 86-164 watts without crapping the bed/distorting/compressing.

So with zero eq, it seems like the 3700 is nowhere close to its limits on power. Depending on how much eq, we may get close to its capabilities, but then we are probably hitting the limits your speakers can handle as well. Then, how much does it affect power that we are driving 5/7/9 channels?

 

[ciotime]

Ok, some quick napkin math with some hopefully ball park assumptions.

At 11' indoors, lets assume you lose about 8 dB due to distance from your speakers, and that the sensitivity rating of your speakers is accurate.
6 ohm speaker = around 1.3 watts for 88.5 dB at 1m.
Subtract 8 dB for distance, we have about 80 dB at 1m with 1.33 watts with your speakers in your room at your seat.
-10MV = 95 dB peaks. So we need to add 15 dB with power(to get from 80 to 95). Doubling power adds 3 dB. So we have to double power 5x to make up the 15 dB needed to get from 80 to 95.
This comes out to about 43 watts needed given the above assumptions.
Now if you are using an AVR with room correction, I think it is nearly impossible to not have at least 3 dB of eq below 300 Hz, which doubles power to 86. 6 dB of eq doubles that to 164....the Audssey menu/app will show you how much eq is applied to each of your speakers.
Based on the 4 ohm test results, it would seem that the X3700 should be able to burst 160 watts at 6 ohms as it hit 240 at 4 ohms.
Next, we have to assume your speakers can handle 86-164 watts without crapping the bed/distorting/compressing.

So with zero eq, it seems like the 3700 is nowhere close to its limits on power. Depending on how much eq, we may get close to its capabilities, but then we are probably hitting the limits your speakers can handle as well. Then, how much does it affect power that we are driving 5/7/9 channels?

Recommended Amplifier Power [W]30 - 180 For the Dali Oberon 7. My setup will be 7.2.4.