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Denon AVR-A1H

Frank207be

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At first I did a manual level adjustment but after deciding to keep the amp in the set I ran a room calibration.

I'll try to avoid hyperbole but I just did a comparison together with my beloved wife:
The internal amps of my AVC-A1H do sound very good with plenty power, strong bass, big soundstage and lots of detail but they're a tad sharp and direct/energetic what can be fatiguing with certain music.
The 1200AS/2 amp tonality is warmer/less sibilant with a more pleasant midrange/voices rendering.
Which one is the most accurate? Not sure but we both prefer the external power amp.

I hope this makes sense ;)
 

bo_knows

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At first I did a manual level adjustment but after deciding to keep the amp in the set I ran a room calibration.

I'll try to avoid hyperbole but I just did a comparison together with my beloved wife:
The internal amps of my AVC-A1H do sound very good with plenty power, strong bass, big soundstage and lots of detail but they're a tad sharp and direct/energetic what can be fatiguing with certain music.
The 1200AS/2 amp tonality is warmer/less sibilant with a more pleasant midrange/voices rendering.
Which one is the most accurate? Not sure but we both prefer the external power amp.

I hope this makes sense ;)
It sure does. It sounds like AVC-A1H is a great piece of equipment. Probably my future purchase.
 

bo_knows

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Few subjective reviews on A1H (I used English translation).


Quite a few wild and inaccurate statements.

Like:
Note for users - beginners: It should be noted that 150W in class AB is dynamically better (in most cases - not always) than the same performance in class D.

Bi-Amp for stereo


If your front speakers allow it, the 2x150 W output can be doubled with bi-amping and you get approx. 2 x 300 Watts, which can handle even high-end columns, without the need to activate the subwoofer. o_O
...............................................................................................................................................................................................

 

Frank207be

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Since the last post much has happened. Anyway in Q2 2023 I bought Audyssey MultEQ-X with the calibrated ACM1-X and last week I purchased Dirac Live Full Bandwidth + Bass Control.

After issues with a bridged Crown XLS1002 that went into protection with a single B&C 21SW152/8 due to large DLBC room corrections, I scaled down from 7.4.6 to 7.3.6 with 2x B&C 21SW152/8 on one bridged Crown XLS2502 that has at least double the power.

Obviously this demanded new calibrations for both Audyssey MultEQ-X and Dirac Live Bass Control. I wanted to keep the same gain on the Crown amps for both calibrations to be able to compare both with a press on the remote.

The red line is MultEQ-X without any editing. The severe -18dB drop off in the 20-30Hz region probably is caused by using sealed PA drivers with very high sensitivity in the midbass and Audyssey assuming a 6-7dB boost by using 3 subs? (see 70-80Hz difference) This obviously doesn't sound right but I was not surprised as I've been struggling with it before.

The green line is MultEQ-X with all Crown gain controls increased 5 clicks combined with careful PEQ calibration. This proved to be very time consuming as every MultEQ-X adjustment needed to be transferred to the A1H and measured with REW over and over again.

The blue line is DLBC that just didn't care about the subwoofer character and it calculated a satisfying flat curve in minutes. All curves were set to flat in Dirac software.

REW20231222a.jpg




Listening tests between green and blue were very close. The Dirac surround bubble sounds more integrated but the bass is almost the same. Seat to seat variation also is a bit smoother with DLBC but ART will undoubtly be the real game changer that everyone is waiting for.
 
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peng

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Since the last post much has happened. Anyway in Q2 2023 I bought Audyssey MultEQ-X with the calibrated ACM1-X and last week I purchased Dirac Live Full Bandwidth + Bass Control.

After issues with a bridged Crown XLS1002 that went into protection with a single B&C 21SW152/8 due to large DLBC room corrections, I scaled down from 7.4.6 to 7.3.6 with 2x B&C 21SW152/8 on one bridged Crown XLS2502 that has at least double the power.

Obviously this demanded new calibrations for both Audyssey MultEQ-X and Dirac Live Bass Control. I wanted to keep the same gain on the Crown amps for both calibrations to be able to compare both with a press on the remote.

The red line is MultEQ-X without any editing. The severe -18dB drop off in the 20-30Hz region probably is caused by using sealed PA drivers with very high sensitivity in the midbass and Audyssey assuming a 6-7dB boost by using 3 subs? (see 70-80Hz difference) This obviously doens't sound right but I was not surprised as I've been struggling with it before.

The green line is MultEQ-X with all Crown gain controls increased 5 clicks combined with careful PEQ calibration. This proved to be very time consuming as every MultEQ-X adjustment needed to be transferred to the A1H and measured with REW over and over again.

The blue line is DLBC that just didn't care about the subwoofer character and it calculated a satisfying flat curve in minutes. All curves were set to flat in Dirac software.

REW20231222a.jpg




Listening tests between green and blue were very close. The Dirac surround bubble sounds more integrated but the bass is almost the same. Seat to seat variation also is a bit smoother with DLBC but ART will undoubtly be the real game changer that everyone is waiting for.

Your findings seem consistent with mine, that is, if one spends time on using the app, even the $20 Editor app, it is possible to get excellent results equal to or better than that obtainable by using Dirac bass control, often better than Dirac Live without bass control (except on impulse responses).

If one just want to run calibration once and move on to enjoyment, then Dirac Live wins, in my own experience, I would say probably 80% of the time. Both are way more effective than ARC Genesis, that imo is grossly overrated by forum fans, though it is hard to prove for the obvious reasons.
 

tjcinnamon

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Your findings seem consistent with mine, that is, if one spends time on using the app, even the $20 Editor app, it is possible to get excellent results equal to or better than that obtainable by using Dirac bass control, often better than Dirac Live without bass control (except on impulse responses).

If one just want to run calibration once and move on to enjoyment, then Dirac Live wins, in my own experience, I would say probably 80% of the time. Both are way more effective than ARC Genesis, that imo is grossly overrated by forum fans, though it is hard to prove for the obvious reasons.
Audyssey has Dynamic EQ which can be nice for people who listen at lower volumes but want to get an exaggerated sub/surround experience. I generally listen at -20dB

I had better experience with Dirac than XT32 but the best Experience with Audyssey MQX. I’m very excited for ART. I’m a fan of DEQ (blasphemy, I know), so I’m hoping I don’t miss that too much.
 

peng

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Audyssey has Dynamic EQ which can be nice for people who listen at lower volumes but want to get an exaggerated sub/surround experience. I generally listen at -20dB

I had better experience with Dirac than XT32 but the best Experience with Audyssey MQX. I’m very excited for ART. I’m a fan of DEQ (blasphemy, I know), so I’m hoping I don’t miss that too much.

Me too, really missed DEQ, everyday, as I don't listen anywhere near reference level.
 

Steve Dallas

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Me too, really missed DEQ, everyday, as I don't listen anywhere near reference level.

I like the concept of DEQ, but I have found it to be too aggressive.
 

peng

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I like the concept of DEQ, but I have found it to be too aggressive.
Again, me too, but you can mitigate it and I am sure you know how to do it.:) For surround levels being aggressive, I found that it actually got better after the initial complains on forums. It may be possible that they fixed it in their FW, without telling us, or I simply got used to it. At one point I reduced the level trims but put them back to default later when I felt that somehow Denon must have done something, via FW updates.

Interestingly, my Anthem does not have DEQ, but it also seems to get aggressive with the surround channel levels too, mostly the surrounds and back surround channels. So, now I have another thought, it is possible that the newer movie mixes have increased the levels on those channels for more dramatic effects that they assume the publics prefer?

Or would it be a combination of all those things I am speculating, including the "it's just me getting used to it". Still I do miss it, and wish they all offer such a feature.
 

tjcinnamon

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Me too, really missed DEQ, everyday, as I don't listen anywhere near reference level.
It really gives me pause as my my direction as it's an expensive experiment for ART (if it's released). I'd be looking at either a Cinema40 or the AV10. I don't mind the Cinema40 in terms of cost but the $1000 in software is a tough pill to swallow if I end up liking DEQ more. I very pleased with my MQX results.

If I get an AV10 then I'm really going all in on something that may not improve (audible) sound quality over my X4700... all for testing ART.

I suppose, I could be a jerk and buy an X4800 from Best Buy and then try the software and return both if I don't like it. I really don't feel great about doing that to Best Buy though.
 

peng

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It really gives me pause as my my direction as it's an expensive experiment for ART (if it's released). I'd be looking at either a Cinema40 or the AV10. I don't mind the Cinema40 in terms of cost but the $1000 in software is a tough pill to swallow if I end up liking DEQ more. I very pleased with my MQX results.

If I get an AV10 then I'm really going all in on something that may not improve (audible) sound quality over my X4700... all for testing ART.

I suppose, I could be a jerk and buy an X4800 from Best Buy and then try the software and return both if I don't like it. I really don't feel great about doing that to Best Buy though.

It always depend on one's application. In my opinion, if someone wants to use most of the surround/height channels, or just use it as an AVR, then the A1H is the best choice on the market right now based on projected measurements that should be within a couple dB to the AV10's probably on par with the AVM 90.

If one wants to use it as a prepro then I would say just wait for the replacement of the AV7706 if you want it to be more affordable. I would not compare the A1H with the Cinema 40 because then you would have to wonder if the huge difference in the measurements, numerically speaking aside, might be audible under some conditions.
 
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AlmondNut

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Beyond the obvious difference in channels, what else is different between the A1H and new 6800? Does the 6800 have the same pre-amp stage (DAC, etc.) as the A1H? I assume the power supply is different because the 6800 is only 140wpc vs. 150? Curious what the similarities and differences are beyond the obvious specs on the Denon website.
 

Everett T

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Beyond the obvious difference in channels, what else is different between the A1H and new 6800? Does the 6800 have the same pre-amp stage (DAC, etc.) as the A1H? I assume the power supply is different because the 6800 is only 140wpc vs. 150? Curious what the similarities and differences are beyond the obvious specs on the Denon website.
Balanced outputs are a huge plus for those that want to run lower gain amplifiers for the LCR, and the balanced inputs are a nice addition. Also, I don't believe the 6800 has the ESS 9018 per channel pair for all channels and I don't think it has DTS X Pro either. Those are couple that would interest me. The case is a nicer build layout, potentially helping with longevity too.
 

soerenssen

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The A1H has 4x XLR sub-outs that can be configured as pre-outs for LCR. Can I use the RCA sub-outs at the same time? Example: 3 subs connected via RCA and the 4th sub at the back (longest distance cable) via XLR.

I'm nowhere near this setup yet, but it'd be good to know if it has the capability, in case I add more subs in the future.

I like the XLR outs of the AV10 but the A1H would be more economical, even if I have to add an external amp for LCR later on.
 

Frank207be

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I have my front channels connected through RCA although the power amp inputs are XLR only. Sounds amazing ;)

Only XLR1 remains a subwoofer output and XLR 2-3-4 can be assigned to left, right and center. If you select XLR1 for the rear sub, you won't be able to use directional bass. Dunno if this causes other issues for Audyssey or Dirac?
 

peng

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I have my front channels connected through RCA although the power amp inputs are XLR only. Sounds amazing ;)

Only XLR1 remains a subwoofer output and XLR 2-3-4 can be assigned to left, right and center. If you select XLR1 for the rear sub, you won't be able to use directional bass. Dunno if this causes other issues for Audyssey or Dirac?

Not only that, but also since there are only 10 ES9018K2M DAC ICs, it means if you assign 3 of the XLR outputs to LCR, you will have only 1 output left for the subwoofers. For example, if you use XLR subouts 2,3,4, then you can still use RCA Subout 1 for your subwoofers but not RCA Subouts 2,3,4 because the XLRs have already been assigned the DACs.

That's my interpretation, you should email Denon and see what they have to say in case I am wrong, and obviously I can be wrong. The reason I could be wrong is that in theory, Denon could re-assign the XLR subout(s) to the front and/or center channels via an automatic switching scheme, a little more work but can be done quite easily.

That's the part that Denon, or a member who owns the A1H to confirm and share the findings.

For reference, in the Maximo training video, time mark 21:00 minute, product manager Oliver Kriete did seem to say that the XLR reassign function would only affect the XLRs, and that means the RCAs can still be used for 4 subwoofers. Again, if that it true, then Denon has really gone the extra miles to automatically reassign the front L,C,R to the subwoofers 2,3,4 and that would be a great and wonderfully useful feature for some users.

Not that I am doubting what Mr. Kriete said, but I doubt if our interpretation is correct, because I searched through the owner's manual and there is no mentioning of the 4 RCA subouts would still be fully functional, if the XLR subouts are re-assigned to the front L, R and C channels. My doubt is, as mentioned before, there are only 10 pieces of the ES9018K2M DAC ICs so there are a maximum of 20 channels available so for the RCAs and XLRs to work the way Mr. Kriete described, Denon would have to re-assigned not only the XLR subouts, but also the front L, R, and C DAC channels to the RCA subouts simultaneously. use lots of switches/and switching control to accomplish the task. Have they really gone that extra mile? That seems highly likely, based on the linked video, but would be nice if someone can confirm it by testing.

Edit: At least two members (presumably owners of the A1H) have since confirmed that when using XLRs for LCR, all 4 RCA subouts are still available for use with the subs.

At the approx. 21:10 mark:

1705840108458.jpeg
 
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quattro98

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I think I read somewhere that you can use the assignable XLRs for LCR and still use 4 subs using the RCAs (or 1 XLR & 3 RCA).

The A1H has 4x XLR sub-outs that can be configured as pre-outs for LCR. Can I use the RCA sub-outs at the same time? Example: 3 subs connected via RCA and the 4th sub at the back (longest distance cable) via XLR.

I'm nowhere near this setup yet, but it'd be good to know if it has the capability, in case I add more subs in the future.

I like the XLR outs of the AV10 but the A1H would be more economical, even if I have to add an external amp for LCR later on.
 

peng

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I think I read somewhere that you can use the assignable XLRs for LCR and still use 4 subs using the RCAs (or 1 XLR & 3 RCA).
Great point, I remember something said about that too so I re-watch the info available and the Maximo video, and edited my previous post adding the link to the video, time mark approx. 21:00 minute. It is not entirely clear exactly what the presenter meant. If it is the way we interpret it, then we have to give Denon the credit that they did a perfect job on this feature.
 
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