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Dan Clark Stealth Review (State of the Art Headphone)

phoenixsong

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For rich folk who do not wish to meddle with EQ the Stealth remains an attractive proposition :) The headphones themselves set an unprecedented standard for objective measurements while costing far less than Sennheiser's Orpheus line. I think it is important to recognise these aspects and accept that they are anything but regular (hence I, a regular person who doesn't like messing around with EQ, am waiting for a trickle down model to use for headphones lol). Meanwhile I shall enjoy the plethora of "new" release IEMs which punch way above their price points
 

psiyari

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EQ doesn't degrade sound, you're just changing the frequency response, there aren't negative connotations with using EQ on a fundamental level, of course though you can make it worse but that would generally be because there's the potential of screwing up the frequency response even more as received at your eardrum, but there's nothing fundamentally associated with EQ degrading sound.

How sure are you that the abundance of EQ filters does not change sound?

Apologies for getting a little technical (and I do not want to flex my knowledge), but do you know about the order of digital filters used in Roon or any other software? How are the collection of filters connected? Is it cascade? Is it parallel? All of these design choices determine how far you can go in terms of adding EQ filters.

I am being careful to not upset Amir here but as a general rule of thumb, you need to stick to very few filters.

For folks who want to know more about this, you can take a look at the technical article below:

 

someguyontheinternet

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The question of how relevant the impact of EQ is on sound quality can actually be simplified into "is the impact audible?".
As with audio components like DACs and amps there is no way to get 100% perfect 1-to-1 signal transfer. The more important question however is that of audibility. The signal can go "crazy" with distortion as it likes. As long as the distortion is below the threshold of hearing it will not impact sound quality.

With how much precision we can get on modern 64bit machines compared to the magnitude of audio signals I find it improbable that EQ will audibly degrade sound quality. It would be interesting to make an experiment to verify this though.
 

staticV3

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All of these design choices determine how far you can go in terms of adding EQ filters. [...] As a general rule of thumb, you need to stick to very few filters.
What happens when you go too far in terms of adding EQ filters? How does one determine that threshold?

I'm regularly using variable band GEQ in Equalizer Apo. Sometimes 2000+ bands. Not because I see an advantage with so many bands, but because I'm too lazy to do smoothing and downsampling. Am I overstepping that boundary? If so, in what way and how severely am I degrading the audio?
 

Robbo99999

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How sure are you that the abundance of EQ filters does not change sound?

Apologies for getting a little technical (and I do not want to flex my knowledge), but do you know about the order of digital filters used in Roon or any other software? How are the collection of filters connected? Is it cascade? Is it parallel? All of these design choices determine how far you can go in terms of adding EQ filters.

I am being careful to not upset Amir here but as a general rule of thumb, you need to stick to very few filters.

For folks who want to know more about this, you can take a look at the technical article below:

If you use large and very sharp peak filters I've read that it can cause ringing, but you shouldn't really use such filters in headphone EQ's anyway due to the uncertainty of absolute precise locations of dips when you have them on your own head vs the GRAS device, so it doesn't pay to use such filters anyway regardless of the ringing variable.....so for all intents & purposes EQ'ing headphones doesn't add a degredation of sound if done properly.

About filter order, it doesn't matter which order they're listed in your software, so you can have them in any order you like.

Regarding deciding on number of filters to use, it doesn't matter as long as you're not using stupidly sharp filters (which I talked about earlier in this message). On a practical level, it's true that you might not want to correct absolutely exactly to the Target Curve when using measurements published on the internet, because there's no guarantee that your unit of headphone will have all the minute peaks & dips of the measured unit, yet instead it's more likely to have the larger distinct features - so you might make the argument that it's only logical to correct for the larger features. However, if someone like Oratory has measured many many units of a headphone, see HD600 and HD650 for example, then all the peaks & troughs he includes in his published measurement is valid, as the averaging process will only allow peaks & dips to remain that are generally consistent across most measured units.....so in those cases you could argue that it's more valid to correct exactly to the Target Curve (hence probably using more filters). Furthermore, one other case, if you've had your particular unit of headphone measured on a GRAS (eg by Oratory), ie you sent him your headphone, then I think it's quite valid to be quite aggressive and accurate with the EQ in terms of hitting the target curve, because unit to unit variation variable is removed - indeed for the headphones I've sent Oratory I've found that aggressive EQ works positively on those, although the success of such an approach might vary from person to person depending on how far their anatomy is removed from that which the GRAS device is attempting to mimic, so that's a consideration if being aggressive with EQ....but you'd test with music listening to see if your particular aggressive filters were a positive or negative impact.

Going back to our original point we were discussing, the fact that the Stealth doesn't really need to be EQ'd for a good experience doesn't mean it's automatically sonically superior to another model of headphone that has been EQ'd to a Target Curve, certainly not using the initial argument you made that "EQ degrades sound".....at the worst EQ reduces your volume output overhead due to having to use a negative preamp to cover the boosts which also theoretically lowers you SINAD too because the DAC is operating at a lesser output for most of the frequency range, but the SINAD argument I also don't think is audible and especially not if you've chosen a good DAC & amp.......and likewise a good DAC & amp will give you plenty of volume output overhead for allowing for a negative preamp.
 
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Embrysonic

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My EQ settings for the DCA Stealth that may be useful to some. Out of the box, I knew the Stealth were top class clinical cans. But that didn't necessarily translate into a good listening experience; well, for me anyway. Took a while to get what I wanted sound wise. I tried a few of the previous settings people suggested but felt they largely obfuscated much of what the Stealth excels at - Separation of instruments, spatial resolution and forward clarity.

I use convolution (courtesy of AutoEQ repo) in conjunction with parametric EQ. My aim was to improve the bass & mid-bass impact without loss of separation, while also taming the brightness at the high end that presents itself occasionally. On that last note you could even go a bit further with the taming, but for reasons mentioned above this was a good balance for me. Caveat to all this is that the Harmann curve has never been my perfect cup of tea, so this may not be your cup of tea either.

Use with headroom management -7dB. Files attached.


1646017013859.png
1646017041931.png
 

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Robbo99999

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My EQ settings for the DCA Stealth that may be useful to some. Out of the box, I knew the Stealth were top class clinical cans. But that didn't necessarily translate into a good listening experience; well, for me anyway. Took a while to get what I wanted sound wise. I tried a few of the previous settings people suggested but felt they largely obfuscated much of what the Stealth excels at - Separation of instruments, spatial resolution and forward clarity.

I use convolution (courtesy of AutoEQ repo) in conjunction with parametric EQ. My aim was to improve the bass & mid-bass impact without loss of separation, while also taming the brightness at the high end that presents itself occasionally. On that last note you could even go a bit further with the taming, but for reasons mentioned above this was a good balance for me. Caveat to all this is that the Harmann curve has never been my perfect cup of tea, so this may not be your cup of tea either.

Use with headroom management -7dB. Files attached.


View attachment 189692 View attachment 189693
That's not far off the Harman Curve as you're adjusting bass to your own preference which is considered a normal part of tuning a headphone...... with the exception of what you're doing at 5.5kHz it's a pretty normal way to tune a headphone using the Harman Curve.
 

Embrysonic

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That's not far off the Harman Curve as you're adjusting bass to your own preference which is considered a normal part of tuning a headphone...... with the exception of what you're doing at 5.5kHz it's a pretty normal way to tune a headphone using the Harman Curve.
Yep, agreed.
 

Embrysonic

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Can anyone inform me on the impact that facebook- meta-materials have on EQ tractability in comparison to headphones without it? Maybe even @Dan Clark ? From my understanding, meta-materials are fine-tuned for the intended input and output response. But how does that translate when EQing is applied? By fixing the spatial scales inherent in the material topology, does this not mean when preferencing frequencies with temporal scales different to the native spectrum, that changes to the output curve will be non-linear and less tractable since the set of possible constructive or destructive superpositions are predetermined? Or is the behaviour as such that the influence of the topology scales proportionally with amplitude and is essentially independent of dominant frequencies?
 

Dan Clark

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Can anyone inform me on the impact that facebook- meta-materials have on EQ tractability in comparison to headphones without it? Maybe even @Dan Clark ? From my understanding, meta-materials are fine-tuned for the intended input and output response. But how does that translate when EQing is applied? By fixing the spatial scales inherent in the material topology, does this not mean when preferencing frequencies with temporal scales different to the native spectrum, that changes to the output curve will be non-linear and less tractable since the set of possible constructive or destructive superpositions are predetermined? Or is the behaviour as such that the influence of the topology scales proportionally with amplitude and is essentially independent of dominant frequencies?
AMTS actually makes EQ easier. AMTS works by reducing standing waves so EQ actually works better. EQ can't reliably address things like standing-wave driven peaks or dips very easily but when you reduce the standing wave effects EQ is more predictable and effective.
 

Embrysonic

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AMTS actually makes EQ easier. AMTS works by reducing standing waves so EQ actually works better. EQ can't reliably address things like standing-wave driven peaks or dips very easily but when you reduce the standing wave effects EQ is more predictable and effective.
Thanks Dan. Just out of interest, was the AMTS done in-house or developed in partnership with another organisation? Also, is there any published research you used that you could point me to? It's a fascinating area.

Cheers
 

Dan Clark

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Thanks Dan. Just out of interest, was the AMTS done in-house or developed in partnership with another organisation? Also, is there any published research you used that you could point me to? It's a fascinating area.

Cheers
Hi! It was 100% in house... Published research is all over the map on all sorts of topics from microwave to freeway noise reduction.
 

Embrysonic

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Wow, yeah that's actually really impressive! The metamaterial + V-planar + design is on point for the stealth. The ear cup shape just makes so much sense and you have made, I will say, the most comfortable headphones I have worn. Then the ingenuity to also be super practical with the hinge and pivot designs so that they are compact and portable. Makes you wonder what the 'big' manufacturers are doing with their resources.

Although one of my favourite parts is weirdly the box it came in Cheers @Dan Clark
 

tifune

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I finally had a chance to listen to the Stealth in a store. I had 1 hour, my own music and took my Aeon 2 Noire with EQ (Qudelix 5K) for comparison.

I'm guessing you have enough experience that you took this into account, but I couldn't tell from your post: did you use Stealth with your Qudelix? They require a bit more power than the Noire - the lowest I've had success with is the E1DA 9038S which is around 450mW @ 23ohm (rated 550@16 and 340@32).

IIRC DCA recommends an amp capable of 500@32, but I'm not sure if that's assuming power will increase as you move towards 16ohm. Unlike desktop amps, most portable amps lose power below 32ohm (if anyone knows why, I'd love to hear it?). I mention it because a common complaint about Stealth is lack of "slam". I've found this is true under 2 conditions: lack of power and fit.

My main complaint about Stealth is this auto-fit headband kind of fixes what's not broken. It also compounds the placement/fit issue: again, IIRC, the recommended placement is around 10 o'clock, but even as a XXL human being with a head to match I find the headband clamping force is insufficient to prohibit sliding to and fro unless I'm sitting mostly still doing desk work. Sounds like you ran into similar issues
 

DJBonoBobo

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I'm guessing you have enough experience that you took this into account, but I couldn't tell from your post: did you use Stealth with your Qudelix? They require a bit more power than the Noire - the lowest I've had success with is the E1DA 9038S which is around 450mW @ 23ohm (rated 550@16 and 340@32).

IIRC DCA recommends an amp capable of 500@32, but I'm not sure if that's assuming power will increase as you move towards 16ohm. Unlike desktop amps, most portable amps lose power below 32ohm (if anyone knows why, I'd love to hear it?). I mention it because a common complaint about Stealth is lack of "slam". I've found this is true under 2 conditions: lack of power and fit.
I used my own combo of Qudelix + smartphone only for my Noire. The Stealth was connected to a combo of these esoteric looking objects:

1646572193289.png

and:
1646572059601.png


I hope that these devices do not perform worse than my phone and Qudelix... :) The amp had lots of power.
I liked the bass of the Stealth. No problems with this "slam" thing.

My main complaint about Stealth is this auto-fit headband kind of fixes what's not broken. It also compounds the placement/fit issue: again, IIRC, the recommended placement is around 10 o'clock, but even as a XXL human being with a head to match I find the headband clamping force is insufficient to prohibit sliding to and fro unless I'm sitting mostly still doing desk work. Sounds like you ran into similar issues
Yes, sounds like it. Not too much of an issue, but less comfortable for me than the Noire.

BTW i bought a HD800S last week - for my personal use case the better fit (with EQ) than the Stealth at the moment. I would like to emphasize again that I do not want to say that the Stealth is worse than the HD800S (with EQ). Objectively, the Stealth is probably better. But I think I'll have more fun with the HD800S (with EQ). (Edit: I also find the Stealth without EQ subjectively much better than the HD800S without EQ)
 
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tusing

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Any recommendations for a good Bluetooth DAC for the Stealth? The Qudelix 5K works but I'm pushing it close to the limit and battery life is only a few hours.

iFi xCAN and xDSD Gryphon were both too quiet (esp compared to the Qudelix in balanced and +6dB mode.)
 

tifune

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Any recommendations for a good Bluetooth DAC for the Stealth? The Qudelix 5K works but I'm pushing it close to the limit and battery life is only a few hours.

iFi xCAN and xDSD Gryphon were both too quiet (esp compared to the Qudelix in balanced and +6dB mode.)

Because you already own Qudelix, xCan could work but not a great value compared to Topping NX7. I think Gryphon's very overpriced but I'm also down on iFi in general. They, like Chord, cater to the religiosity of audiophilia to earn a living.

I use CENtrance Ampersand, it's a big price jump but also a lot of power. I believe DCA recommends 500mW @32ohm, but I'm not sure if they're assuming power increases at 16 ohm which is uncommon among DC devices. Believe me, I've checked. The end of the line for "portable" devices is Cayin C9. I use " because C9 size being what it is, you could literally get a L30 and AC battery pack for 75% less $ and end up in same spot.
 

Χ Ξ Σ

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Gotta love the price war. I remember just six months ago the first used listing of the DCA Stealth I saw was $3599, and they have been popping up more frequently than any other TOTL headphones with each listing lower than before. It's like they were playing hot potato. The buyer's remorse is strong with this one.

Screen Shot 2022-03-12 at 8.21.30 AM.png
 

edahl

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Gotta love the price war. I remember just six months ago the first used listing of the DCA Stealth I saw was $3599, and they have been popping up more frequently than any other TOTL headphones with each listing lower than before. It's like they were playing hot potato. The buyer's remorse is strong with this one.

View attachment 191844
Considering this is effectively a $3400 headphone with DCA Club membership, this seems like a reasonable price for a used pair.
 
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