Cute new schiit speaker amps

[AaronJ]

I'm having some different thoughts than I originally did about these amps. I was previously thinking that if the time comes for me to have a need for an amp for an office system with passive speakers that they would be top contenders, based on the stellar low-level measurements and Schiit's customer support. But the value proposition on these is just very, very low. These need to do something other than being pure power amps. Who are these amps for other than those who are heavily invested in the Schiit ecosystem and already have a small stack of equipment with the same footprint? Doesn't pretty much everyone already have their desktop amplification sorted? I kinda see these amps petering out after the burst of initial purchases ends in the spring.

 

[Asyrin]

I'm having some different thoughts than I originally did about these amps. I was previously thinking that if the time comes for me to have a need for an amp for an office system with passive speakers that they would be top contenders, based on the stellar low-level measurements and Schiit's customer support. But the value proposition on these is just very, very low. These need to do something other than being pure power amps. Who are these amps for other than those who are heavily invested in the Schiit ecosystem and already have a small stack of equipment with the same footprint? Doesn't pretty much everyone already have their desktop amplification sorted? I kinda see these amps petering out after the burst of initial purchases ends in the spring.

I guess I fall into that Schiit Ecosystem demographic. Mine just shipped today (Gjallahorn) to sit atop my magnius.

I originally was going to do powered speakers for my desktop setup but tried out the ever popular Kef Q150s and enjoyed them. I currently have them plugged into an A07 and they do okay but not super great at low volumes to my ears.

Plus, if I'm being honest, I'm willing to pay for the aesthetic. This is my workspace, I like to keep it extremely neat. It helps me focus.

The Amp power calculators (if they're worth anything) say I only need 2.3W listening 5 feet from my speakers anyway.

 

[Koeitje]

Speakers driven to 95dB SPL (peak) can easily handle 10dB peaks at 85dB SPL average.

I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that if you do 85dB and need 1W for it you will need 10W for the 95dB peaks. So a 5W amplifier won't be enough.

 

[Hatto]

I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that if you do 85dB and need 1W for it you will need 10W for the 95dB peaks. So a 5W amplifier won't be enough.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, and excuse me if I'm coming out that way, that's not my intention. I'm trying to see if there's anything wrong with my understanding: Anyone can already achieve 95dB SPL peak values with 5W with decent drivers, why would one need 10W on top of it, when they're already there?

If I can achieve 95dB SPL peak, I can easily listen up to 85dB SPL average without any concerns about dynamic range.

 

[Presb4]

I recently purchased the Schiit Gjallarhorn and it arrived today. I purchased it to replace my 14 year old Maverick Audio Tube Magic Amp that I use on my desk at work. I unboxed the amp today and wanted to see what it was like before I took it to the office, so I swapped it in place of my Schiit Vidar 2 I use in my home 2 way system. On one end, I was feeding it via my Schiit Freya Tube Pre- Amp and on the other end it was connected it to my Polk R600 floor standers.

Now I know this is somewhat of an unfair set up as this is meant to be a low power desktop / nearfield amp and I never expected the Schiit Gjallarhorn to sound like the Schiit Vidar 2, but if it did it would be nice.....

So, how did it sound? Well IMO....

1) The Schiit Gjallarhorn has plenty of power at 10 watts. It was capable of producing 90 db on my Polk R600's (87db speakers) in a room that is 12'x14' with ease and I was only 3/4 of the way on my volume pot. So for a small room or a desktop system this amp has plenty of power for every day speakers.

2) The Schiit Gjallarhorn does not match the performance of the Schiit Vidar 2 in the mid bass and deep bass frequencies, <100khz.

3) The Schiit Gjallarhorn does not image as well as the Schiit Vidar 2 in my system. If the Vidar imaged perfectly at 100, then the imaging from the Gjallarhorn would be around 70.

4) The Upper Mids sound just as good as my Vidar 2, Clean, Crisp and Concise. Female vocals sound very good.

5) The treble is the same as the upper Mids, Clean, Crisp and Concise.

In summary, I played this amp at around 90 db for over 20 mins on the Polks which are rated at 3.9 ohm load. The amp never got hot to the touch, but lukewarm, yes. When I was not critically listening and just going about my day, my initial impression was that this amp was as musical as my Vidar 2 when played at the 80 to 90 db range. It was not until I sat down in the sweet spot that I was able to notice the lack of imaging.
IMO this amp is exactly what it is, a small desk top Amp that has all the power you will ever need for small book shelf speakers in a very small room or in the nearfield on your desktop. It just does not have the current to create good control low bass (100 khz) and down. And that is ok with me, because I have to share my office with other co-workers and they don't want a bass hound next door. But for everyday listening I think this will be a great little amp.

I will post again after I have it set up in my office and have some time listening to it where it was designed to be.

 

[Presb4]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, and excuse me if I'm coming out that way, that's not my intention. I'm trying to see if there's anything wrong with my understanding: Anyone can already achieve 95dB SPL peak values with 5W with decent drivers, why would one need 10W on top of it, when they're already there?

If I can achieve 95dB SPL peak, I can easily listen up to 85dB SPL average without any concerns about dynamic range.

Hatto, this is how I would explain it.
Speakers are rated by the sound pressure they can make with 1 watt at 1 meter of distance. As you increase your distance from the speaker, you have to increase the watts (power) provided to that speaker to maintain that same sound pressure (db) at that new distance. The increase in power needed is inverse to the distance you move away from the speaker, I believe its 4 to1.
For example if a speaker is rated at 87db with 1 watt at 1 meter and you step back to 2 meters (an increase of 1 meter) then you need 4 watts to maintain that same sound pressure that you had at 1 meter of distance. Because of this, there is no point in discussing how loud or efficient a speaker is without also talking about how large the room is or how far you normally sit from the speaker.

But don't confuse dynamics with db. When is talking about speaker dynamics, they are normally talking about the speakers ability to create sound pressure at all frequencies. Small tweeters are way more efficient at making sound pressure than woofers are. It all has to do with how much air that speaker cone is in contact with. A 3/4" dome tweeter needs to move very little air to function. Because of this it does not need much current from the amp to output a given db. But a woofer on the other hand needs to move an exponential amount of air to make that same amount of db in the lower wave lengths.

This is why most subs are connected to dedicated high power amps. A 12" sub woofer may require 300 or 400 watts to output the same sound pressure as a tweeter can with only 30 watts.

So for a single amp to have the power to make the full range of sound a large 3 way speaker can, it will need enough power (volts x amps) to move the woofer, the mid range and the tweeter over the full range of the sound track. Conversely, a smaller book shelf speaker of the same db efficiency will not require the same amount of current because of its use of smaller speaker cones and its inability to play full range. As the volts are controlled by the volume pot, the variable here is the Amps ability to provide the total amount of current each speaker cone needs to re-create a musical note. This is why two Amps of the same wattage can sound different when paired with different speakers.

I hope that helps.

 

[Hapo]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, and excuse me if I'm coming out that way, that's not my intention. I'm trying to see if there's anything wrong with my understanding: Anyone can already achieve 95dB SPL peak values with 5W with decent drivers, why would one need 10W on top of it, when they're already there?

If I can achieve 95dB SPL peak, I can easily listen up to 85dB SPL average without any concerns about dynamic range.

...no you can't...

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Not sure what the fuss is all about.
Small cheap amplifiers that are made in USA. I don't see any problem why people are bashing it. It seems like an ASR thing to make fun of e everything. Sad.

 

[Hapo]

...not everyone is Schitting on it...some of this Schitt sounds like ad copy...LoL...

...I don't see where anyone has been untrue even when they are sounding all negative n' Schitt...

...I enjoy unbiased data and biased opinions...

...I would consider a Jellyhorn @ $150...the Chinese have destabilized our market...

 

[Koeitje]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, and excuse me if I'm coming out that way, that's not my intention. I'm trying to see if there's anything wrong with my understanding: Anyone can already achieve 95dB SPL peak values with 5W with decent drivers, why would one need 10W on top of it, when they're already there?

If I can achieve 95dB SPL peak, I can easily listen up to 85dB SPL average without any concerns about dynamic range.

85dB is about 1W for 2 loudspeakers with 86dB sensitivity 2 meters from your listening position placed near a wall. So you will easily reach 10W when using bookshelves in common scenarios. Conclusion: 5W will not be enough for a large group of listeners. Near-field? That would work, but why are you buying passives in near-field applications?

But all this discussion is pointless because Watts are cheap.

 

[Hatto]

Hatto, this is how I would explain it.
Speakers are rated by the sound pressure they can make with 1 watt at 1 meter of distance. As you increase your distance from the speaker, you have to increase the watts (power) provided to that speaker to maintain that same sound pressure (db) at that new distance. The increase in power needed is inverse to the distance you move away from the speaker, I believe its 4 to1.
For example if a speaker is rated at 87db with 1 watt at 1 meter and you step back to 2 meters (an increase of 1 meter) then you need 4 watts to maintain that same sound pressure that you had at 1 meter of distance. Because of this, there is no point in discussing how loud or efficient a speaker is without also talking about how large the room is or how far you normally sit from the speaker.

But don't confuse dynamics with db. When is talking about speaker dynamics, they are normally talking about the speakers ability to create sound pressure at all frequencies. Small tweeters are way more efficient at making sound pressure than woofers are. It all has to do with how much air that speaker cone is in contact with. A 3/4" dome tweeter needs to move very little air to function. Because of this it does not need much current from the amp to output a given db. But a woofer on the other hand needs to move an exponential amount of air to make that same amount of db in the lower wave lengths.

This is why most subs are connected to dedicated high power amps. A 12" sub woofer may require 300 or 400 watts to output the same sound pressure as a tweeter can with only 30 watts.

So for a single amp to have the power to make the full range of sound a large 3 way speaker can, it will need enough power (volts x amps) to move the woofer, the mid range and the tweeter over the full range of the sound track. Conversely, a smaller book shelf speaker of the same db efficiency will not require the same amount of current because of its use of smaller speaker cones and its inability to play full range. As the volts are controlled by the volume pot, the variable here is the Amps ability to provide the total amount of current each speaker cone needs to re-create a musical note. This is why two Amps of the same wattage can sound different when paired with different speakers.

I hope that helps.

Thank you for clarifying your perspective.

The increase in power needed is inverse to the distance you move away from the speaker, I believe its 4 to1.

Yes, it's inversely proportional to the square of distance (i.e to maintain peak SPL at n*distance you should have n^2*power)

Because of this, there is no point in discussing how loud or efficient a speaker is without also talking about how large the room is or how far you normally sit from the speaker.

Exactly, that's why I provided all those parameters throughout all my messages about power calculations. And those calculations clearly demostrate you one can drive average efficiency speakers to reasonable listening levels at average distances with a mere 5W power.

So for a single amp to have the power to make the full range of sound a large 3 way speaker can, it will need enough power (volts x amps) to move the woofer,

I never mentioned anything about dedicated bass woofers, they are automatically out of scope without more specialized amps (or integrated amps of their own).

So for a single amp to have the power to make the full range of sound a large 3 way speaker it will need enough power (volts x amps) to move the woofer, the mid range and the tweeter over the full range of the sound track. Conversely, a smaller book shelf speaker of the same db efficiency will not require the same amount of current because of its use of smaller speaker cones and its inability to play full range.

That's where I'm not so sure about. There are 3-way speakers with 90dB/W/m efficiency (e.g. Yamaha NS-6490), that's the overall sensitivity of the integrated product. When you're calculating specs for an integrated product you can't just exclude any component out, which suggests that the largest driver should have even higher sensitivity than 90dB/W/m to end up with that "average". With enough sensitivity, you can drive speakers with really low power. To your point, producing a 3-way speaker with the same efficiency as a 2-way bookshelf should be exponentially more challenging, but the resulting math should apply all the same: Same SPL with same power under identical conditions; otherwise you can't specify it as a 90dB/W/m efficiency speaker.

 

[jooc]

I bought the Aiyama and returned it. To be polite I would say that it was a major disappointment. Which topping and SMSL are you referring to? Remeber the criteria. Size, price and power.

SMSL DA-6 Amp, Uses the Infineon chip, rated at 70wpc but will give to up to about 15W of very clean output (measured at this very site.) Tiny, currently $49 on Amazon.

 

[Presb4]

Ok, So I had some time to listen to the Schiit Gjallarhorn in my office today. Before I get to what I am hearing, this is my set up.
**Schiit Modi E DAC. -> Schitt Vali 2 ++ -> Schiit Gjallarhorn -> Elac BS41 Speakers 6 ohm load** I typically listen to music in the 65-75 db range while in the office.
I have a door I can close the tube is a (NOS WE 396A)

I like to start with the cons, well they might be cons.
Initially when I set up the new amp in my office, I noticed significant hum with no music playing. This hum was not found on my old Maverick Audio desktop system. I moved all the connections around and changed the patch cables and found the hum was coming from the amp but was due to A/C noise in my PC's PSU. The patch cables I have, which are shielded, were picking up the A/C hum from my PC and the Amp was amplifying it. My old amp did not have this issue with the same cables. I can only guess that the Schiit Gjallarhorn is more resolving and passing along the A/C noise where my old amp could not.
To fix the issue I twisted up my patch cables and plugged the amp into an Isobar surge protector with A/C filter I use for other test equipment I have at work. The A/C noise is now gone.

The Vali 2++ and Gjallarhorn make for a real resolving system on a desktop. In the near field this Amp shines and the imaging issue I described in my first post was not an issue now in the near field. I would rate the imaging now as very good. I can only attribute this change to the lower current demand of my desktop system vs my home when I was driving my floor standers.

Treble and Mid-range notes all have a very good timbre.
The bass is still on the thin side though IMO. But desktop speakers are rarely capable of good bass anyway, so this might not be an issue for most.

Music, I used to evaluate this new system was:
Coal Mining Blues - Matt Andersen -> Acoustic guitar and deep male voice, sounded great.
Tin Pan Alley - Stevie Ray Vaughan -> Electric guitar and male voice, lots of fast treble detail, sounded great.
Angel - Massive Attack -> The beginning of this track has some very deep bass. Sounded muddy and lacking in punch. Elac BS41's tried their best but they just don't play low.
Nocturne, in C sharp minor - Olafur Arnalds -> Violin with loads of upper mids and treble with micro details. Was able to hear the subtle string touch details but could not hear the violinist breath, which I can hear on my home system.

 

[jooc]

85dB is about 1W for 2 loudspeakers with 86dB sensitivity 2 meters from your listening position placed near a wall. So you will easily reach 10W when using bookshelves in common scenarios. Conclusion: 5W will not be enough for a large group of listeners. Near-field? That would work, but why are you buying passives in near-field applications?

But all this discussion is pointless because Watts are cheap.

This is an excellent demonstration of just how loud 1W of output can be with 87.5db speakers for reference:

 

[Hatto]

...no you can't...

No, this is not an argument, it's just contradiction. An argument is a collective series of statements to establish a proposition.

 

[Hapo]

 

[solderdude]

 

[JustJones]

Market hole that needs exploiting, Active speakers with 2 watt amplifiers.

 

[Vini darko]

Ok, So I had some time to listen to the Schiit Gjallarhorn in my office today. Before I get to what I am hearing, this is my set up.
**Schiit Modi E DAC. -> Schitt Vali 2 ++ -> Schiit Gjallarhorn -> Elac BS41 Speakers 6 ohm load** I typically listen to music in the 65-75 db range while in the office.
I have a door I can close the tube is a (NOS WE 396A)

I like to start with the cons, well they might be cons.
Initially when I set up the new amp in my office, I noticed significant hum with no music playing. This hum was not found on my old Maverick Audio desktop system. I moved all the connections around and changed the patch cables and found the hum was coming from the amp but was due to A/C noise in my PC's PSU. The patch cables I have, which are shielded, were picking up the A/C hum from my PC and the Amp was amplifying it. My old amp did not have this issue with the same cables. I can only guess that the Schiit Gjallarhorn is more resolving and passing along the A/C noise where my old amp could not.
To fix the issue I twisted up my patch cables and plugged the amp into an Isobar surge protector with A/C filter I use for other test equipment I have at work. The A/C noise is now gone.

The Vali 2++ and Gjallarhorn make for a real resolving system on a desktop. In the near field this Amp shines and the imaging issue I described in my first post was not an issue now in the near field. I would rate the imaging now as very good. I can only attribute this change to the lower current demand of my desktop system vs my home when I was driving my floor standers.

Treble and Mid-range notes all have a very good timbre.
The bass is still on the thin side though IMO. But desktop speakers are rarely capable of good bass anyway, so this might not be an issue for most.

Music, I used to evaluate this new system was:
Coal Mining Blues - Matt Andersen -> Acoustic guitar and deep male voice, sounded great.
Tin Pan Alley - Stevie Ray Vaughan -> Electric guitar and male voice, lots of fast treble detail, sounded great.
Angel - Massive Attack -> The beginning of this track has some very deep bass. Sounded muddy and lacking in punch. Elac BS41's tried their best but they just don't play low.
Nocturne, in C sharp minor - Olafur Arnalds -> Violin with loads of upper mids and treble with micro details. Was able to hear the subtle string touch details but could not hear the violinist breath, which I can hear on my home system.

View attachment 268558

Welcome to asr. Amp looks nice on the desk.

 

[mhardy6647]

Market hole that needs exploiting, Active speakers with 2 watt amplifiers.

I had those on a "multimedia PC", what, two decades ago? Maybe two point five decades ago. Maybe more...