Crossover Revel M106

[Davide]

Hello, I’m attempting to maximize my sound system. Currently I’m using a pair of M106s with a Rythmik L12 sub. I’m splitting the stereo cables to the mains and sub.

I’ve spoken to Revel about using a digital crossover so I can maximize the fidelity of my mains (and increase their lifespan). Revel told me their speakers are designed to play best when the full audio signal is sent. Using a crossover could impact the sound in a negative way.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Is Revel correct?

Much appreciated,
Cody

It seems like a standard response, and it may even come from customer service.
A more technical person would probably have told you that you would certainly have benefits as long as you did it correctly, i.e. alignment of time, phase, frequency response, levels between drivers. Otherwise there may be no benefits.

 

[cmarion]

It seems like a standard response, and it may even come from customer service.
A more technical person would probably have told you that you would certainly have benefits as long as you did it correctly, i.e. alignment of time, phase, frequency response, levels between drivers. Otherwise there may be no benefits.

How much better would you estimate the M106s would sound? The best option for me at the moment is the minidsp flex. Not considering the room eq, just the value of the crossover on its own.

 

[Davide]

How much better would you estimate the M106s would sound? The best option for me at the moment is the minidsp flex. Not considering the room eq, just the value of the crossover on its own.

It depends on how skilled you are at configuring the system.
If you choose an automatic system like Dirac Bass Control or Audiolense, the result is always much better than using a Y splitter for sub(s).

 

[Willem]

Or the DSpeaker X2 if your input requirements are not too complex.
Originally I used my subwoofers with just a low pass filter around 35 Hz (?) and the Quad 2805 main speakers full range. These speakers do not have that much headroom and the room is large, so they felt a bit strained. I have since added a cheap custom made passive High Pass filter at 80 Hz before the power amplifier and the increased headroom does indeed make for a cleaner sound. The now three subwoofers are equalized with Multi Sub Optimizer filters applied to a miniDSP 2x4HD.

 

[Absolute]

How much better would you estimate the M106s would sound? The best option for me at the moment is the minidsp flex. Not considering the room eq, just the value of the crossover on i-ts own.

I would leave the passive crossover well alone and just try to phase correct the speaker as a whole in the crossover-region based on near-field measurement. Then I would high-pass the Revel at 80-120 hz or so depending on room acoustics, sub and trial and error.
Unless you're skilled enough to do proper measurements, you're more likely to degrade the speaker than you are to upgrade it with a digital crossover. In my opinion based on experience.

 

[Acerun]

Some speakers are designed to be used with subwoofers, e.g. they have a roll-off at 80 Hz with 12 dB/octave that could be used with the 12/24 THX crossover. The Revel M106 is not. But it probably can be adapted to a crossover at 80 Hz but it would not be a standard one,

What would be the advantages or disadvantages of crossing a good speaker like the M106 or the the M126Be at 60 instead of 80? Seems like you would get more of the high quality speaker bandwidth.

 

[Putter]

What would be the advantages or disadvantages of crossing a good speaker like the M106 or the the M126Be at 60 instead of 80? Seems like you would get more of the high quality speaker bandwidth.

What you get is actually the lowest quality part of the bandwidth which is to say the area with the highest distortion vs. an 80 hz crossover.
If anything based on the graph, it would be better to cross at at 100 hz or even higher depending on whether bass becomes too directional. Distortion reaches a max at 80hz.

 

[ZolaIII]

What would be the advantages or disadvantages of crossing a good speaker like the M106 or the the M126Be at 60 instead of 80? Seems like you would get more of the high quality speaker bandwidth.

Not much if anything for Revels. From 60 Hz it's all one long wave but hardly you would hear any difference or have directional pin point issue. Stereophile measurements differ a lot from Amir's, especially phase/impedance (crossing is higher on Stereophile).

https://www.stereophile.com/images/914Revelfig3.jpg

Woffer Fs is about 54 Hz and to release and stress it out you need to cut lot higher 130~140 Hz and plug the port's of course then you need to do it with two sub's one per each chenel.

 

[Thomas_A]

What would be the advantages or disadvantages of crossing a good speaker like the M106 or the the M126Be at 60 instead of 80? Seems like you would get more of the high quality speaker bandwidth.

The speaker is ported so you would use it at full bandwith and only extend the low bass (it slopes at 24 dB/octave already so use sub with the same slope). An alternative is to plug the port and try the standard 12/24 dB AVR x-over at 80-120 Hz. Not perfect but could work. Trial and error, use measurements.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hello, I’m attempting to maximize my sound system. Currently I’m using a pair of M106s with a Rythmik L12 sub. I’m splitting the stereo cables to the mains and sub.

I’ve spoken to Revel about using a digital crossover so I can maximize the fidelity of my mains (and increase their lifespan). Revel told me their speakers are designed to play best when the full audio signal is sent. Using a crossover could impact the sound in a negative way.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Is Revel correct?

Much appreciated,
Cody

Hi, just sense-checking:
You want to "maximise" your system, sounds good. What are you actually looking for, what problem are you trying to solve?
Seems that modifying your crossover (or is this more like subwoofer integration) is to take some load off your Amp and thereby achieve higher clean SPL?
Or are there problems with the bass response that you want to fix?
Interesting electronics project?

It may be that adding an active crossover (miniDSP style) works for you but you may also need to add a second Sub to even out room effects?

What problem are you trying to solve?

 

[thomsbrain]

Friendly voice of dissent here. Here's my nearfield, untreated, office-desk curve with M106s with and without a sub, with full range going to the M106s on both curves. Sub is a 20+ year old Sony 12", and its lowpass is set to 40 hz (unknown slope, probably 12db). Peak at 125 and null at 65 are SBIR. You can see that otherwise the M106 plays pretty flat to 45 Hz in-room. And combined system output below that isn't actually "extended" below that - the original curve is just boosted by the extra power from the sub - the frequency curve of the M106 and the old sub are actually pretty much the same once you account for the lowpass slope!

High-passing the M106 above 45 Hz would be a waste of their potential. I also own the F36 floorstand versions mated with a big-boy SVS SB16 and I still don't high-pass the F36, either. Unless you are running out of amp power or overloading the drivers, I find bass to be more natural, more omnidirectional, and more powerful when you let the speakers do their job and augment with a sub to your taste (I like a lot of sub-bass when I can get it). The idea that we would all champion the idea of multiple subs but then leave untapped our main-channel amplifier power and bass-generation sources just boggles me. We all know having more sources for bass is better for in-room response - so stop artificially killing the bass sources you already have. I know the argument that high-passing magically makes the rest of the speaker sound better - I just don't find that to be true unless we are talking about really crap speakers (like my old Bose Acoustimass system) or really weak amps. Even more so in speakers like the F36 that have separate mid drivers that aren't really impacted by whatever the bass drivers are doing.

YMMV. Happy listening!