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11 Channel ACR Help Please $3k budget

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Aug 6, 2023
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Hey Guys, probably an overworked topic but I can’t seem to find any advice on my specific question. Current setup:

Old Denon AVR1611, SVS Prime Bookshelfs, Center, Satellites in a 5 channel base layer, SVS PB 2000 Pro, 8” Definitive Techlogy sealed sub, using original 5 layer base of Definitive Technology to use for my heights in a front height, front center height, and rear L/R heights configuration. All connected via eArc to my new 85” Sony X90L TV

It’s time to invest in a new AVR and need advice on where to go. Below are the options I’m considering. We do 95% of our use on streaming through native Sony apps like Netflix, Prime Video, Paramount +, YouTube Tv. Needs at least 11 channels amplified. Really don’t want to get a 9 channel and add amps right off the bat unless you think I’m totally off base and should go that way. Important things to me are good room correction to maximize sound for my room that is open to the kitchen to the left and dining room behind main listening position, power, Auro3D upmixing, channel separation, quality audio DACs for some occasional stereo listening to high quality audio through something like Tidal in the future. Open to refurb for staying in budget.

Integra 8.4
Denon x6800
Yamaha a8a
Sony 7000es
Onkyo rz70
Emotiva basx mr1

Thank you in advance!
 
Hey Guys, probably an overworked topic but I can’t seem to find any advice on my specific question. Current setup:

Old Denon AVR1611, SVS Prime Bookshelfs, Center, Satellites in a 5 channel base layer, SVS PB 2000 Pro, 8” Definitive Techlogy sealed sub, using original 5 layer base of Definitive Technology to use for my heights in a front height, front center height, and rear L/R heights configuration. All connected via eArc to my new 85” Sony X90L TV

It’s time to invest in a new AVR and need advice on where to go. Below are the options I’m considering. We do 95% of our use on streaming through native Sony apps like Netflix, Prime Video, Paramount +, YouTube Tv. Needs at least 11 channels amplified. Really don’t want to get a 9 channel and add amps right off the bat unless you think I’m totally off base and should go that way. Important things to me are good room correction to maximize sound for my room that is open to the kitchen to the left and dining room behind main listening position, power, Auro3D upmixing, channel separation, quality audio DACs for some occasional stereo listening to high quality audio through something like Tidal in the future. Open to refurb for staying in budget.

Integra 8.4
Denon x6800
Yamaha a8a
Sony 7000es
Onkyo rz70
Emotiva basx mr1

Thank you in advance!
Seems to me the Denon can do everyhing for you. The Onkyo is likely more powerful but the difference would be too little to make difference.
 
Hey Guys, probably an overworked topic but I can’t seem to find any advice on my specific question. Current setup:

Old Denon AVR1611, SVS Prime Bookshelfs, Center, Satellites in a 5 channel base layer, SVS PB 2000 Pro, 8” Definitive Techlogy sealed sub, using original 5 layer base of Definitive Technology to use for my heights in a front height, front center height, and rear L/R heights configuration. All connected via eArc to my new 85” Sony X90L TV

It’s time to invest in a new AVR and need advice on where to go. Below are the options I’m considering. We do 95% of our use on streaming through native Sony apps like Netflix, Prime Video, Paramount +, YouTube Tv. Needs at least 11 channels amplified. Really don’t want to get a 9 channel and add amps right off the bat unless you think I’m totally off base and should go that way. Important things to me are good room correction to maximize sound for my room that is open to the kitchen to the left and dining room behind main listening position, power, Auro3D upmixing, channel separation, quality audio DACs for some occasional stereo listening to high quality audio through something like Tidal in the future. Open to refurb for staying in budget.

Integra 8.4
Denon x6800
Yamaha a8a
Sony 7000es
Onkyo rz70
Emotiva basx mr1

Thank you in advance!
RZ70 or Integra DRX-8.4 are the best options for you on that list. 11-channels amplified. AURO-3D. Dirac Live included in the price, and upgradable to DLBC. Superior DACs to what's found in the Denon. For streaming, both the Onkyo and Integra support Roon Ready as well as Chomecast built-in. With the Denon, you are stuck with AirPlay 2 (lossy AAC) or HEOS (hot garbage). The Sony has effectively no room correction at all.
 
RZ70 or Integra DRX-8.4 are the best options for you on that list. 11-channels amplified. AURO-3D. Dirac Live included in the price, and upgradable to DLBC. Superior DACs to what's found in the Denon. For streaming, both the Onkyo and Integra support Roon Ready as well as Chomecast built-in. With the Denon, you are stuck with AirPlay 2 (lossy AAC) or HEOS (hot garbage). The Sony has effectively no room correction at all.
In fact, I'll add that, given your $3K budget, the RZ70 is the best option. $2800 shipped on Amazon. Dirac Live included in the base price. The Integra has some small extras, like XLR input/outputs, but since you aren't using external amps, those aren't really necessary anyway. Also, the RZ70 will run substantially cooler than any D+M AVR.
 
RZ70 or Integra DRX-8.4 are the best options for you on that list. 11-channels amplified. AURO-3D. Dirac Live included in the price, and upgradable to DLBC. Superior DACs to what's found in the Denon. For streaming, both the Onkyo and Integra support Roon Ready as well as Chomecast built-in. With the Denon, you are stuck with AirPlay 2 (lossy AAC) or HEOS (hot garbage). The Sony has effectively no room correction at all.
Any other you recommend not on that list?
 
Seems to me the Denon can do everyhing for you. The Onkyo is likely more powerful but the difference would be too little to make difference.
Any difference in sound quality? Will I notice a huge difference in sound quality from my 10+ year old Denon 1611?
 
Any other you recommend not on that list?
Hmm....within the constraints you listed, not really. If you are open to running external amps, it's possible to save some money by going down to 9 amplified channels with something like an RZ50 or x3800H, but you'll still need to spend a couple hundred on something like a Fosi V3 to get back up to 11-channels.
 
Any difference in sound quality? Will I notice a huge difference in sound quality from my 10+ year old Denon 1611?
So the big differences coming from such an old AVR are four-fold:

1. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X object-based surround formats
2. HDMI 2.1 video with support for 4K120 and 8K60 resolutions
3. Sophisticated Room Correction like Dirac Live and Bass Control
4. Modern streaming feature-sets including support for lossless audio, multi-room audio with Roon, etc.

The thing that stands to affect sound quality, depending upon your room, is the room correction. The DACs, amps, etc. are largely inaudible. The other significant advantage is stepping up to object-based formats, especially with an 11-channel layout featuring 4/6 height channels. That will be a significant impact in movies and I can recommend several that have particularly impressive Atmos mixes, including Edge of Tomorrow and The Guns of Navarone.
 
So the big differences coming from such an old AVR are four-fold:

1. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X object-based surround formats
2. HDMI 2.1 video with support for 4K120 and 8K60 resolutions
3. Sophisticated Room Correction like Dirac Live and Bass Control
4. Modern streaming feature-sets including support for lossless audio, multi-room audio with Roon, etc.

The thing that stands to affect sound quality, depending upon your room, is the room correction. The DACs, amps, etc. are largely inaudible. The other significant advantage is stepping up to object-based formats, especially with an 11-channel layout featuring 4/6 height channels. That will be a significant impact in movies and I can recommend several that have particularly impressive Atmos mixes, including Edge of Tomorrow and The Guns of Navarone.
Thanks so much! Appreciate your input, another huge issue I’m having with the old AVR is the signal strength to th PB-2000 isn’t strong enough per Denon/SVS so I had to add an inline RCA booster to get output
 
Thanks so much! Appreciate your input, another huge issue I’m having with the old AVR is the signal strength to th PB-2000 isn’t strong enough per Denon/SVS so I had to add an inline RCA booster to get output
Since I’m not using ANY of the video capabilities of the AVR, is there a non-video amp that would give me 11.2 power, Arc/eArc, and object based format support? Or should I buy a Denon 3800/4800 or RZ50 and add an xpa amp? I hear using separate amps gives superior channel separation for surround
 
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Any difference in sound quality? Will I notice a huge difference in sound quality from my 10+ year old Denon 1611?
In direct mode without the use of DSP functions, there may be some difference when your "power" requirements approach the limit of the 1611, but the fact is, assuming the limit of the 1611 is about 1/2 that of the 3800, then the difference is only 3 dB so the answer to your question is, it depends. I agree with ban25's.
 
Since I’m not using ANY of the video capabilities of the AVR, is there a non-video amp that would give me 11.2 power, Arc/eArc, and object based format support?
What do you mean by non-video "amp"? Anything that supports 11.2, eARC, object based format will have video boards.
Or should I buy a Denon 3800/4800 or RZ50 and add an xpa amp? I hear using separate amps gives superior channel separation for surround
I suggested the Denon because it meets practically all of your requirements listed in your original post.
The Onkyo RZ50 has the basic Dirac Live included, but with the often significant discount on the X6800H members seem to be getting, it is imo, better in terms of upgradability. The RZ50 seems to have a more aggressive protective circuitry, if you external power amp then it isn't much of a factor, but if use on its own to power all channels, depending on your speakers, seating distance, and desired sound pressure level, it might act up when you push the volume a little too much.

The X3800H/X4800H will do the job too obviously if you are willing to add a 2 channel power amp, that may cost you $200 or less (if you go with something like the pocket size Fosi V3, again, depending on you "power" requirements.

You did mention "quality dac", the 3800/4800 has the TI dac (TI's lower end model) that has higher distortions+noise but is still transparent, while the 6800 has the better ESS (not their reference level ones, but still has excellent specs) dac that would likely allow it to measure much better on the test bench, though audibly speaking, you will most likely not know the difference. IMO, that is not really a factor, but I wanted to mention it as fyi only.
 
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What do you mean by non-video "amp"? Anything that supports 11.2, eARC, object based format will have video boards.

I suggested the Denon because it meets practically all of your requirements listed in your original post.
The Onkyo RZ50 has the basic Dirac Live included, but with the often significant discount on the X6800H members seem to be getting, it is imo, better in terms of upgradability. The RZ50 seems to have a more aggressive protective circuitry, if you external power amp then it isn't much of a factor, but if use on its own to power all channels, depending on your speakers, seating distance, and desired sound pressure level, it might act up when you push the volume a little too much.

The X3800H/X4800H will do the job too obviously if you are willing to add a 2 channel power amp, that may cost you $200 or less (if you go with something like the pocket size Fosi V3, again, depending on you "power" requirements.

You did mention "quality dac", the 3800/4800 has the TI dac (TI's lower end model) that has higher distortions+noise but is still transparent, while the 6800 has the better ESS (not their reference level ones, but still has excellent specs) dac that would likely allow it to measure much better on the test bench, though audibly speaking, you will most likely not know the difference. IMO, that is not really a factor, but I wanted to mention it as fyi only.
Thanks again! Since I only use the current AVR to power speakers and use the native streaming apps in my Sony X90L, is there need for all the video power/capability of an AVR? I just have an HDMI connected via Arc sending audio signal from TV to AVR. Hope that makes sense

Also, x6800 vs RZ70, the RZ70 includes Dirac and is $700 less. With full bandwith Dirac and active bass management being another $800, $500 for adding multi sub management to RZ70, that’s $1000 difference. You think the x6800 is worth that additional cost?
 
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you also want BELOW SURROUND ! you no idea what you are missing , in fact all of you ! i have matrix below surround in my , THX cinema !
 
you also want BELOW SURROUND ! you no idea what you are missing , in fact all of you ! i have matrix below surround in my , THX cinema !
Whattttttt, where is the signal coming from? What formats support that?
 
Whattttttt, where is the signal coming from? What formats support that?
you have to watch my channel , as for atmos , dts-x auro 3d they are both technically flawed since day one , they are not legit immersive audio they only do half , half of it , 11 years of bs-ing the public and i'm naturally disappointment myself

i may rant in new live video , on how to simply affordable transform the basic atmos into a less boring atmos
 
Thanks again! Since I only use the current AVR to power speakers and use the native streaming apps in my Sony X90L, is there need for all the video power/capability of an AVR? I just have an HDMI connected via Arc sending audio signal from TV to AVR. Hope that makes sense

Also, x6800 vs RZ70, the RZ70 includes Dirac and is $700 less. With full bandwith Dirac and active bass management being another $800, $500 for adding multi sub management to RZ70, that’s $1000 difference. You think the x6800 is worth that additional cost?
Hi and welcome.

Regarding “video capability” being omitted—no manufacturer would try to do that. They mostly just “pass through” the video source signal anyway. So no cost savings available with that unavailable option.

Regarding the 6800, most users can get a very satisfactory room correction just using the included audyssey + $20 app. Later on if you want to try Dirac you can but it would be on your terms when you are farther along in your journey. There are many who prefer audyssey.

Denon has a reputation for making the most stable HDMI boards and a quick review of the AVR owners forum shows few bugs and mainly positive ownership experiences. It will also provide the most robust future proof purchase among your options. If you have not selected a dealer I would like to recommend Crutchfield. They have a 60 day return, terrific customer service and lifetime tech support. The latter is extremely valuable to new users in helping navigate setup options and advanced techniques.
 
Hi and welcome.

Regarding “video capability” being omitted—no manufacturer would try to do that. They mostly just “pass through” the video source signal anyway. So no cost savings available with that unavailable option.

Regarding the 6800, most users can get a very satisfactory room correction just using the included audyssey + $20 app. Later on if you want to try Dirac you can but it would be on your terms when you are farther along in your journey. There are many who prefer audyssey.

Denon has a reputation for making the most stable HDMI boards and a quick review of the AVR owners forum shows few bugs and mainly positive ownership experiences. It will also provide the most robust future proof purchase among your options. If you have not selected a dealer I would like to recommend Crutchfield. They have a 60 day return, terrific customer service and lifetime tech support. The latter is extremely valuable to new users in helping navigate setup options and advanced techniques.
Thanks Golfx, I believe you’ve given me some input in the past!
 
Hi and welcome.

Regarding “video capability” being omitted—no manufacturer would try to do that. They mostly just “pass through” the video source signal anyway. So no cost savings available with that unavailable option.

Regarding the 6800, most users can get a very satisfactory room correction just using the included audyssey + $20 app. Later on if you want to try Dirac you can but it would be on your terms when you are farther along in your journey. There are many who prefer audyssey.

Denon has a reputation for making the most stable HDMI boards and a quick review of the AVR owners forum shows few bugs and mainly positive ownership experiences. It will also provide the most robust future proof purchase among your options. If you have not selected a dealer I would like to recommend Crutchfield. They have a 60 day return, terrific customer service and lifetime tech support. The latter is extremely valuable to new users in helping navigate setup options and advanced techniques.
Do you think it makes more sense to do x4800 with a 2 channel amp or the x6800?
 
What do you mean by non-video "amp"? Anything that supports 11.2, eARC, object based format will have video boards.

I suggested the Denon because it meets practically all of your requirements listed in your original post.
The Onkyo RZ50 has the basic Dirac Live included, but with the often significant discount on the X6800H members seem to be getting, it is imo, better in terms of upgradability. The RZ50 seems to have a more aggressive protective circuitry, if you external power amp then it isn't much of a factor, but if use on its own to power all channels, depending on your speakers, seating distance, and desired sound pressure level, it might act up when you push the volume a little too much.

The X3800H/X4800H will do the job too obviously if you are willing to add a 2 channel power amp, that may cost you $200 or less (if you go with something like the pocket size Fosi V3, again, depending on you "power" requirements.

You did mention "quality dac", the 3800/4800 has the TI dac (TI's lower end model) that has higher distortions+noise but is still transparent, while the 6800 has the better ESS (not their reference level ones, but still has excellent specs) dac that would likely allow it to measure much better on the test bench, though audibly speaking, you will most likely not know the difference. IMO, that is not really a factor, but I wanted to mention it as fyi only.

What do you mean by non-video "amp"? Anything that supports 11.2, eARC, object based format will have video boards.

I suggested the Denon because it meets practically all of your requirements listed in your original post.
The Onkyo RZ50 has the basic Dirac Live included, but with the often significant discount on the X6800H members seem to be getting, it is imo, better in terms of upgradability. The RZ50 seems to have a more aggressive protective circuitry, if you external power amp then it isn't much of a factor, but if use on its own to power all channels, depending on your speakers, seating distance, and desired sound pressure level, it might act up when you push the volume a little too much.

The X3800H/X4800H will do the job too obviously if you are willing to add a 2 channel power amp, that may cost you $200 or less (if you go with something like the pocket size Fosi V3, again, depending on you "power" requirements.

You did mention "quality dac", the 3800/4800 has the TI dac (TI's lower end model) that has higher distortions+noise but is still transparent, while the 6800 has the better ESS (not their reference level ones, but still has excellent specs) dac that would likely allow it to measure much better on the test bench, though audibly speaking, you will most likely not know the difference. IMO, that is not really a factor, but I wanted to mention it as fyi only.
Which channels would you recommend powering with the 2 channel amp if I go with the x4800?
 
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