Will I tangibly benefit from adding power?

[Chrispy]

I understood about half, but got the jist of it. Thank you all for explaining it in layman’s terms to me.

I wish they had a 3 channel for all my fronts. I suppose I could use a 4 if I pair them with the M106s later.

Like this one maybe https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/amplifiers/hypex/ncx500/3_channel

 

[MCarden]

Was also wondering if the 90dB was an average or peak reading as well as what weighting. Then again sometimes you just have to buy the amp for yourself BTDT.

I believe it was A with peaks of 94, average mid to upper 80s.

 

[Koeitje]

Yes, that is a common posting. I've not experienced that particularly with many amps and speakers over the years but I'm not expecting the amp to be magic or have capabilities it doesn't. YMMV.

I have experienced it. But that was when one amplifier was starting to clip at very high SPL levels and the other wasn't. When I went to Marantz PM-16 (Class AB 2x110W @ 8 Ohm) to Hypex NC400 (Class D 2x200W @ 8 Ohm) I noticed zero change.

 

[MCarden]

Okay, comforting.

 

[Soandso]

I believe it was A with peaks of 94, average mid to upper 80s.

Maybe use the “Z” weighting instead of dBA which is unweighted. I recall one savvy ASR member specifying that unweighted is more appropriate for testing sound. The dbA and dBC have different readings depending on which frequency is involved. Below is just an example; you can see that complete data for both 1/3rd and also full octave weightings at website nti-audio dot com; titled “Frequency-weightings for sound level measurements”. Citation: below partial chart screen shot for illustration is from nti-audio.

 

[MCarden]

Like this one maybe https://www.buckeyeamp.com/shop/amplifiers/hypex/ncx500/3_channel

It has 380 wpc at 8 ohms while the speakers are listed at 50-350. Is that a conflict?

 

[Chrispy]

It has 380 wpc at 8 ohms while the speakers are listed at 50-350. Is that a conflict?

Not particularly, some rules of thumb say get an amp double your speaker rating, altho that might be a bit much (and a more expensive amp). I certainly wouldn't try to put all the power to the speakers, they likely just won't sound very good at such levels anyways. Such an amp should be fine for a lot of different speakers, tho.

 

[Chrispy]

The volume control is a great way to control how much power....

 

[DanielT]

In addition to what has already been said.

Think about whether you are going to EQ and will therefore need, for example, 3 dB extra headroom for that operation. 3 dB is double the amp power.

Various listening distance and thus more power for the same sound level needs to be taken into account outdoors. Indoors, on the other hand, the listening room functions as a reverb chamber (considering all the reflexes). Thus, the sound level is approximately the same at different listening distances (exceptionally not extremely close to the speaker) in the room. Test it with a dB meter and you'll see. Even a free dB app will do to test it.
Intuitively, one already knows that this is the case. It is enough to walk around the listening room and listen.

 

[MCarden]

I contacted Buckeye, gave them the setup details and this was their reply;
The 3ch NCx500 is a completely different amplifier model/technology than the NC502MP. In nearly all situations, the 4ch NC502MP would be the best choice to make, in my opinion.

I sure appreciate everyone’s expertise and time sharing. Mike

 

[Grandzoltar]

I looked up your pioneer 9040 avr and it's 14 years old. Upgrading to a Denon x4800 with dirac would be the most noticable upgrade. Decoding the lastest codex, hdmi 2.1 and better internal amps. Ability to turn off amp sections for front 3 speakers for a separate amp in the future

 

[MCarden]

I looked up your pioneer 9040 avr and it's 14 years old. Upgrading to a Denon x4800 with dirac would be the most noticable upgrade. Decoding the lastest codex, hdmi 2.1 and better internal amps. Ability to turn off amp sections for front 3 speakers for a separate amp in the future

The Denon capabilities look fantastic. They exceed my familiarity so I’m gonna research and learn something. I have three systems so I can push the Pioneer into the man cave to replace a 40 year old Yamaha. Thank you for going the extra step.

 

[Tucker26]

Hi, Welcome to ASR!

You can use a calculator like this one to figure out how much power you need: http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html

Long story short, every doubling of distance requires double the power, every +3dB requires double the power too. Sounds like your room is reasonably big, if you're far from the speakers and you want to fully avoid clipping you might need a lot of juice.

200w should get you around 102-105dB in the middle of the room if the speakers are close to the back wall. That's what I (and my neighbors) would personally call "too damn loud" but if you're listening to classic rock primarily, sometimes there are good dynamic peaks, so it might not be too much.

110w gets you around 99dB at 12 feet from the F208s, which if you listen at 85dB average (loud-ish, at the limit of what OSHA considers safe for long-term listening, a normal reference level) might not be enough for peaks.

If you are sitting further away or you like your music really loud, you might want more than 200w.

One way to settle the matter is to take some measurements with a UMIK-1 (this thing gets recommended like 40 times a day on here) or an SPL meter, and see what your actual preferred SPL is.

From there you can back out how many watts you need to sustain that and get an appropriate amount of headroom. Anywhere from 10-15dB+ peaks are considered normal, above the steady listening volume you prefer.

You can get >200w of good clean power for less than $1000 perhaps from VTV or Buckeye via Hypex or Purifi modules.

But like @Chrispy said, if you don't hear a problem, why go looking for a solution?

A quibble - doubling the distance requires 6 dB, not 3 dB, so 4 times the power not 2 times, other things being equal.

 

[kemmler3D]

A quibble - doubling the distance requires 6 dB, not 3 dB, so 4 times the power not 2 times, other things being equal.

Oops, good point.

 

[DanielT]

A quibble - doubling the distance requires 6 dB, not 3 dB, so 4 times the power not 2 times, other things being equal.

You can test to see if it is correct. Here I measured with a free dB app, with the same song, at 1.5 meters and 3 meters listening distance respectively.
Same average value: 46 dB.



See #29

 

[Hayabusa]

You can test to see if it is correct. Here I measured with a free dB app, with the same song, at 1.5 meters and 3 meters listening distance respectively.
Same average value: 46 dB.

View attachment 388066View attachment 388067

See #29

looks like your measurement is not very accurate?
Only with a line source you could have 3db/double distance.
A 'point' source should really do around 6dB.
Maybe your noise floor is way of?
Try with white noise and at a higher level?

 

[TLEDDY]

I cannot say enough good things about Buckeye! They not only produce a cost-effective amplification solution, they also stand behind their products - see all of the threads about them here on ASR!

I look forward to your reporting back on your grand experiment!

Tillman

 

[DanielT]

looks like your measurement is not very accurate?
Only with a line source you could have 3db/double distance.
A 'point' source should really do around 6dB.
Maybe your noise floor is way of?
Try with white noise and at a higher level?

It was just a quick measurement, done with a free dB app in my bedroom.
A little noise when I moved but otherwise quiet. I can measure the noise floor, later today.

Anyone can test it, even with better microphones than I had with my tablet.

The sound bounces around everywhere in my bedroom, floor, walls and ceiling. IF I had a room with lots of furniture, lots of damping acoustic panels together with speakers with very narrow dispersion, the result might look a little different.Perhaps, I don't know.

 

[Mort]

I second getting a new AVR. Denon X3800h refurbished is $1k and a perfect pairing with external amps.

 

[Multicore]

Mainly I’ve read so many reviews where the poster added amplification and reported deeper, richer music. That’s what I’m looking for

How come you asked your question here on ASR and not in the places you read those reviews? I'm curious how come people get here.

Btw, I'm inclined to agree with the others that room equalization (REQ) is perhaps a good next step. The effect for me wasn't so much of an obvious change in tonality but of improved comfort that manifests as the absence of fatigue over time.

Now, if you want to do REQ, some more power might be useful by allowing you to fill nulls a little bit but you need to be careful with this. Anyway, learning how to apply REQ is another topic.