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Crossover Revel M106

cmarion

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Hello, I’m attempting to maximize my sound system. Currently I’m using a pair of M106s with a Rythmik L12 sub. I’m splitting the stereo cables to the mains and sub.

I’ve spoken to Revel about using a digital crossover so I can maximize the fidelity of my mains (and increase their lifespan). Revel told me their speakers are designed to play best when the full audio signal is sent. Using a crossover could impact the sound in a negative way.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Is Revel correct?

Much appreciated,
Cody
 

ahofer

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Hello, I’m attempting to maximize my sound system. Currently I’m using a pair of M106s with a Rythmik L12 sub. I’m splitting the stereo cables to the mains and sub.

I’ve spoken to Revel about using a digital crossover so I can maximize the fidelity of my mains (and increase their lifespan). Revel told me their speakers are designed to play best when the full audio signal is sent. Using a crossover could impact the sound in a negative way.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Is Revel correct?

Much appreciated,
Cody
Did you ask why? Doesn’t make much sense to me. Different music has different frequency content. If it is a vinyl recording rolled off on the bass, does that make the Revels sound worse?

I smell BS, but I’m no expert.
 
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cmarion

cmarion

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I asked, but didn’t receive a real answer. I agree, does not make sense.
 

eddantes

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Whats the plan? X-over at 80 and hipass the revels? Should be fine.
 

phoenixdogfan

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That was another one of those audiophile canards, just like EQ adversely affects the signal, or tubes add lifelike depth and dimensionality. Those beliefs belong to the bygone era when certain slicks were gospel and their editors in chief spoke ex cathedra and were therefore infallible.

Best advice is get something like a miniDSP, or if you want do it with software JRiver or Ekio, and set a 12db per octave high pass at 80 hz, and a 24 db per octave low pass at the same frequency. And, if you can afford it, get Dirac on either the miniDSP or the PC to lower all the room related peaks (standing waves) those subs will create.
 

Thomas_A

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Some speakers are designed to be used with subwoofers, e.g. they have a roll-off at 80 Hz with 12 dB/octave that could be used with the 12/24 THX crossover. The Revel M106 is not. But it probably can be adapted to a crossover at 80 Hz but it would not be a standard one,
 
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cmarion

cmarion

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That was another one of those audiophile canards, just like EQ adversely affects the signal, or tubes add lifelike depth and dimensionality. Those beliefs belong to the bygone era when certain slicks were gospel and their editors in chief spoke ex cathedra and were therefore infallible.

Best advice is get something like a miniDSP, or if you want do it with software JRiver or Ekio, and set a 12db per octave high pass at 80 hz, and a 24 db per octave low pass at the same frequency. And, if you can afford it, get Dirac on either the miniDSP or the PC to lower all the room related peaks (standing waves) those subs will create.
The Revels take one signal with a 12db slope, but the sub takes a 24db slope? Why not both 24?
 

Chrispy

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So I take it your pre-amp has no bass management of its own? That they indicated their speakers don't need or work well with a sub with the usual idiotic basic level of customer service in modern corporations, meh.
 

phoenixdogfan

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The Revels take one signal with a 12db slope, but the sub takes a 24db slope? Why not both 24?
Most miniMonitors have a natural 12 per octave roll off around 100 hz, so adding a 12 db per octave electrical crossover will yield a totat 24 db per octave accoustic high pass.
 

restorer-john

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If you go direct to the drivers, I say do what you want, but consider leaving some protection for the treble units in the form of a capacitor and possibly a series resistor to limit over drive. Maybe a polyswitch etc.
 
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cmarion

cmarion

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So I take it your pre-amp has no bass management of its own? That they indicated their speakers don't need or work well with a sub with the usual idiotic basic level of customer service in modern corporations, meh.
In their (slight) defense, they did say I should use a sub and just do a low pass. What’s interesting is the Revels go so low I actually pass at about 30Hz right, which is not a good thing.
 
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cmarion

cmarion

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Most miniMonitors have a natural 12 per octave roll off around 100 hz, so adding a 12 db per octave electrical crossover will yield a totat 24 db per octave accoustic high pass.
Thank you. Would you recommend the minidsp? I’m worried it could sound inferior to my current setup (topping dac and jds preamp). There’s no return option (and could there possibly be a much superior model in a year or two)?
 

phoenixdogfan

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Thank you. Would you recommend the minidsp? I’m worried it could sound inferior to my current setup (topping dac and jds preamp). There’s no return option (and could there possibly be a much superior model in a year or two)?
The miniDSP Flex would give you everything (crossover, high quality four channel DAC, PEQ, routing, and the option to add Dirac Live. DACS and preamps are a solved problem. Any of the stuff recommended on ASR will be entirely transparrent which is all you can ask of any component. You'll never notice a difference among the Topping the miniDSP unless you talk yourself into it beforehand.
 

JeromeP

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In their (slight) defense, they did say I should use a sub and just do a low pass. What’s interesting is the Revels go so low I actually pass at about 30Hz right, which is not a good thing.
Implementing a crossover will minimize excursion and distortion in the Revel across the frequencies. Distortion is very low but from 200 Hz down it rises before the tuning frequency.
Nonetheless, increasing the crossover frequency beyond the 100Hz range may make the subwoofer's location audible.This is why people tend to advise 80-100 as a starting point.

If you acquire the MiniDSP Flex, consider purchasing the accompanying microphone as well. This will enable you to measure your room's acoustics and help with integration and improve with overall responses by eqing down any peaks.

The revels already have good performance. Adding a sub crossed over will improve the headroom of the system. If you don't need the additional headroom it might be that the sub would be useful in bridging some problems in the rooms response. This would need some measurements to start to understand the room modes.
 

Sokel

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Looking at this in room response it may actually work the way Revel advices with the sub crossed at 50Hz or so.
You won't get the higher SPL benefit up higher but you will get the extended FR down lower.


1700991697755.png
 

ZolaIII

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Well cross them high digitaly (130~140 Hz) each to it's own sub. With those L12 use LFE in and 26 Hz high pass (slope down).
Everything can be improved or broken down. We should see in room graphs (measurements) and placement. In other words measurement microphone and proper placement are still your biggest friend's.
 

Chrispy

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In their (slight) defense, they did say I should use a sub and just do a low pass. What’s interesting is the Revels go so low I actually pass at about 30Hz right, which is not a good thing.
I wouldn't go that low with the lpf, that speaker with an f3 of 59Hz I wouldn't call particularly good down low....but it's a small bookshelf speaker so not particularly unusual otoh.
 
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