Comparing McIntosh MC462 vs Hypex NC502 objectively

[Koeitje]

The reasons are several. Perhaps the most important is that a McIntosh is a McIntosh inside and outside.
Own technology without modules from third-party companies.

Then just build your own NC400 or Purifi. Also nothing third party.

 

[carlob]

$389 + $185 shipping to the USA seems a little stiff, but I don't know what a good power amp case (with meters no less) costs these days.

Well, these Mcintosh chassis clones are huge, 11kg of aluminum shipped from China. But in case you prefer a Pass clone (17Kg each): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-M...732333?hash=item3b069890ed:g:MVAAAOSwKyRatIH5

 

[carlob]

What about an Accufake?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Class-A-Am...718673?hash=item4b53eefdd1:g:TJEAAOSwKA5b3Gwn

 

[CDMC]

I am really tempted to buy a dozen of those cases, put some hypex or Icepower modules in them, get some resistance heaters for the heatsyncs and sell them as custom "hi bias" Class D. I bet I could get $10,000 a piece since they will sound warm.

I am also tempted to get one custom made, with the brand as "BS Audio" and the model as the "BFA". Throw some hypex or purifi modules in it and post photos on the PS Audio website.

 

[restorer-john]

$389 + $185 shipping to the USA seems a little stiff, but I don't know what a good power amp case (with meters no less) costs these days.

That's for two (pair) and they are 11Kg each according to the blurb. I know I couldn't have them made as one offs for anything like that here in Australia, they'd want as much as a small car in $

 

[Wes]

To me this is a perfectly valid reason. It is amazing the justifications that people will go through in a purchase rather than just be honest that they like the way something looks and will spend extra for the aesthetics. I love power meters on an amp and would spend extra for them.

I've often thought of mounting a Topping DAC inside an Accuphase case...

 

[DonH56]

That's for two (pair) and they are 11Kg each according to the blurb. I know I couldn't have them made as one offs for anything like that here in Australia, they'd want as much as a small car in $

OK, missed it was for a pair. Certainly impressive looking, be neat to build a couple of monoblocks using them.

I built a nice integrated amp into a cheap Sound Design chassis many years ago. It was fun to take it into high-end stores and compare to their stuff. Sound Design was one of those classic all-in-one plastic marvels that did things like paste a sticker with "1000 W peak dynamic music power" on the back. Achieved with a 2N3904/2N3906 output stage, quite impressive.

 

[restorer-john]

I built a nice integrated amp into a cheap Sound Design chassis many years ago. It was fun to take it into high-end stores and compare to their stuff. Sound Design was one of those classic all-in-one plastic marvels that did things like paste a sticker with "1000 W peak dynamic music power" on the back. Achieved with a 2N3904/2N3906 output stage, quite impressive.

So Don, you had the original "sleeper" amplifier?

It'd be fun for the kids now, they could put a massive class D in an old ghetto blaster and take it into a HiFi store...

 

[Koeitje]

So Don, you had the original "sleeper" amplifier?

It'd be fun for the kids now, they could put a massive class D in an old ghetto blaster and take it into a HiFi store...

No no, you going about this the wrong way. You should get a Bose 123 or similar and put Hypex NCore into that. Now that will trigger people. Especially when you pull out the RCA connectors to connect the amplifier to the speakers.

 

[DonH56]

So Don, you had the original "sleeper" amplifier?

It'd be fun for the kids now, they could put a massive class D in an old ghetto blaster and take it into a HiFi store...

Doubt I was the first, but the idea and implementation were mine. Right down to the loose original cheapie plastic volume knob that would fall off now and then. There was a custom stepped attenuator behind it and a couple of salesman said it wasn't "smooth" like a good product would have. My friends and I had a bit of fun, mainly at the "uptight" store in town. Childish in hindsight, but was fun at the time. Heck, I can say that about a lot of my youth. And for a few decades after...

 

[watchnerd]

Ok, this may seem like an odd comparison. For those that know more about amps, I would appreciate some comments. There could not be 2 more different amps probably, but I think it would be interesting.
I currently have a McIntosh MC252 which I like quite a bit. Besides the weight, there isn’t anything I don’t like about it. These can generally be picked up around $3k. The MC462 was bench tested at Stereophile. This is really the only reason I picked this particular amp. I am sure it outperforms the one I own by a pretty wide margin. If anyone knows of any other McIntosh amps that have been bench tested that would also be interesting.
Here is the bench test for the MC452
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-laboratory-mc462-power-amplifier-measurements
Here is the bench test of the NC502 via the @March Audio P502 that @amirm did. The MC452 will have quite a bit more power (which I really wouldn’t need).
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dio-p502-stereo-amplifier-measurements.10909/
I am considering an NC502 based amp, but don’t want to give up sound quality. It doesn’t appear to me that I would be giving up anything replacing the McIntosh MC252 with something like a NC502 based amp. Looking at the two bench tests above, how do they compare (Knowing that my MC252 will not measure nearly as good as the MC462.
My current system is
Minidsp SHD
McIntosh MC252
JBL 250 TI (4 way)
Sub JBL B460, powered by Crown XLS1502
Edit: If I could find a bench test of of an MC252 it would be better or even an MC302, but haven’t been able to find a more comparable model bench tested.

Do you think you can hear the difference between the McIntosh and the NC502 if...

a) Using music
b) They're level matched
c) Working within their rated parameters and not-clipping

 

[watchnerd]

To me this is a perfectly valid reason. It is amazing the justifications that people will go through in a purchase rather than just be honest that they like the way something looks and will spend extra for the aesthetics. I love power meters on an amp and would spend extra for them.

Practically any electronics that are mid-fi or higher are, more or less, solved problems.

Just buy what looks cool to you.

 

[Dj7675]

Do you think you can hear the difference between the McIntosh and the NC502 if...

a) Using music
b) They're level matched
c) Working within their rated parameters and not-clipping

I don't think so. My thought was to get equal or better performance with a Hypex and save some money and reallocate it to another use (multichannel amp for the home theater).

 

[Gyroscopics]

What is the real world continuous power rating of the NC502? I think the 500 Watt rms mentioned on the specs is just for 1Khz sine wave with 4ohm load. Most amp manufacturers (the credible ones) publish continuous power, hence lower figure.

 

[March Audio]

What is the real world continuous power rating of the NC502? I think the 500 Watt rms mentioned on the specs is just for 1Khz sine wave with 4ohm load. Most amp manufacturers (the credible ones) publish continuous power, hence lower figure.

....and what is a 1 kHz tone if its not a continuous signal?

Its as stated, 500 watts.

A more general comment, music simply doesnt behave like a sine wave test tone in terms of "continuous" power requirements. Amplifiers dont run anywhere near their max RMS output when playing music.

As an example here is Dont stop Fleetwood Mac.

So we see the amplitude peaks at 0dB yet the RMS level in the entire song is at about -13dB. So if we set the volume so we are peaking 500watts the RMS value is only 25 watts!!!!!!

To look at it a different way, if we set the volume so we are outputting 500 watts RMS the the peak power requirement would be about 10kW !

The Audition data gives a bit more info and shows the "Maximum RMS Value" as -5.4dB . So for a short duration in the song we hit about 150 watts RMS assuming a peak of 500 watts. Again if set at 500 watts rms the peak power required would be about 1740 watts.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I think the 500 Watt rms mentioned on the specs is just for 1Khz sine wave with 4ohm load.

No, it's not. It starts clipping at 500W (or ≈300W/8Ω), whatever the frequency:

Most amp manufacturers (the credible ones) publish continuous power, hence lower figure.

Certainly not most manufacturers. @March Audio will be glad to tell he measured NC502MP at its maximum level during several minutes (never happens IRL)... That should be considered as continuous power.

 

[Gyroscopics]

....and what is a 1 kHz tone if its not a continuous signal?

Most manufacturers (Parasound for example) mention something like:
Power Output - Both channels driven (0.05% THD, RMS, 20Hz - 20kHz)
160 watts x 2 @ 8Ω
240 watts x 2 @ 4Ω

The NCore NC502MP specs mention:
Max Output Power - 1KHz, THD=1%, All channels driven. Per channel.
500 W rms @ 4Ω
350 W rms @ 8Ω
Continuous Output Power 100 W rms

Out of curiosity, with the specs given above which amp is more powerful?

 

[March Audio]

Most manufacturers (Parasound for example) mention something like:
Power Output - Both channels driven (0.05% THD, RMS, 20Hz - 20kHz)
160 watts x 2 @ 8Ω
240 watts x 2 @ 4Ω

The NCore NC502MP specs mention:
Max Output Power - 1KHz, THD=1%, All channels driven. Per channel.
500 W rms @ 4Ω
350 W rms @ 8Ω
Continuous Output Power 100 W rms

Out of curiosity, with the specs given above which amp is more powerful?

Ahhh that one again . The continuous power is entirely dependant upon the cooling of the module. I have no idea what Hypex test conditions were for that but can only guess it was without any heatsinking. I wish they would clarify this spec, its not the first time this has been brought up.

I dont have the video of the P502 but below is one for the P252 (NC252MP). Its "continuous" rating is only 50 watts but here it is at 250 watts for 5 minutes which passes the FTC test.

The 502 is more powerful. If you look at the graphs Vintage posted above you will see that at the same 0.05% distortion the Parasound quotes its power at the P502 is about
330 watts into 8 ohms
500 watts into 4 ohms

Hypex are one of the few manufacturers that publish this level of detail in their specs.

 

[March Audio]

Burst power is far more relevant to real world usage than RMS. Amir tests this.

 

[watchnerd]

.

View attachment 73754

View attachment 73755

Those graphs are pure audio porn.